posted on September 19, 2004 04:36:18 AM new
I have friends here in Michigan who are named Bob and Mary. I have thought of them as the ideal couple for the longest time. They have been married for just over 10 years now, and they have 3 very nice children, a nice home and stable income.
It seems lately they are having trouble getting along well. I know them very well, and for about the last 5 months or so, they have been at each others throat. They argue both in private and in front of the children. The subjects that they argue about are things they didn't pay attention to in the past. Now it seems that everything is bothering them. They have even talked about ending the marriage with a divorce. So last night when I was at their house, they began to bicker at each other. It was just the most trivial subject after another.
I finally asked them what was happening to their once thriving and productive marriage. I was really surprised when they told me the reason. They both agreed that since Gay Marriage was legal in Massachusetts, their marriage has crumbled. I told them it should have nothing to do with them, but they somehow feel it does. Neither have family in Massachusetts or have ever been there. I really can't understand their thinking behind it. Is there anything that I can tell them to help them understand this shouldn't be happening to them?
Of course, I made this up. There is no Bob or Mary. But isn't this "story" really ridiculous. If it were true, wouldn't you think these people were rather strange.
This is an equality thread and I approve of it's content.
posted on September 19, 2004 04:41:01 AM new
yeager
It wouldn't be so far fetched if one thought gay marriage should be legal and one thought it shouldn't. Other than that, it is pretty lame to blame that issue on a marriage crumbling. Heck, even my almost 70 year old mother thinks gays should have the right to get married. She's very progressive.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on September 19, 2004 04:47:46 AM new
It's lame to blame the Gay Marriage issue on society's faults. I guess some people have to have a victim to blame their own faults on.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 19, 2004 06:42:31 AM new
may be one is gay and wants to end the hexterosexual marriage,kind of being free to choose again!!
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 19, 2004 06:59:37 AM new
If society thought like that, then why prosecute murderers? Why have laws at all? after all if it doesn'r affect me, why should I care?
Cheryl why should you care who lives down the street from you? After all it is not in your home... kind of hypocrtical isn't it?
Why should we care who kidnapped Lindbergh's baby? After all that didn't really affect me?
Who cares about an amber alert, not my child...
I love how people pick and choose what affects others... that is the reason we have laws and that is what people are saying they want laws...
posted on September 19, 2004 08:01:55 AM new
Laws that govern who can and cannot marry? I'm not talking about marrying your dog, so don't go there with lame examples like that. I'm talking about two HUMAN consenting adults of age . Don't we have bigger and better things to worry about in this country? Maybe there need to be more laws like spitting on the sidewalk (that offends me) or over-drinking at baseball games (that offends me) or entering a public place with a cold (that offends me. I could get that cold). How about a law against people who are too overweight or too underweight? Let's discuss people with red hair, brown hair, blue hair. . get where I'm headed? If it were up to some of you the only place you could be and not break any laws is in your own home with the shades drawn.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Sep 19, 2004 08:02 AM ]
posted on September 19, 2004 08:28:06 AM new
cheryl - What you gay marriage supporters keep discounting is he will of the people. YOU can't change it when that many people feel this strongly about this issue.
Again...all the issues that are of concern to voters are put into law.
Just like those idiots who are wanting to sue the fast food chains because the people themselves had no self control over what they or their children eat...or how much they eat. Not their fault they're fat. Heck no...the fast food chains were FORCING them to eat too much.
But changing the way marriage as been defined since our nations beginning is just a tad MORE important to people than how many people blame the FFC for their own overeating.
With this many states passing anti-gay marriage laws...it should be pretty clear to you leftists just how important an issue this is.
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture, don´t have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president." - john kerry
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"These dizzying contradictions -- so glaring, so public, so frequent -- have gone beyond undermining anything Kerry can now say on Iraq. They have been transmuted into a character issue."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"What kind of man, aspiring to the presidency, does not know his own mind about the most serious issue of our time?" - Charles Krauthammer
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posted on September 19, 2004 08:28:41 AM new
Once again you avoid the issue cheryl... yes there some things that should only be allowed in someone's home with the shades drawn...
But then if it is trivial, why is it it going down in votes? You may even get to vote on it in Ohio and I am betting you will be seeing a new state amendment...
posted on September 19, 2004 08:37:03 AM new
yeager asks for advice....
I need to give my friends some advice...
My advice to you would be to not give your advice to them....at all.
It might make them as obsessed about the gay marriage issue and might encourage them to spread your hatred of religion.
Be careful...there are laws against hate crimes. Might also make you appear to them to be a faux 'Bible thumper' without a Bible. You know...a 'shove it down their throats' type of guy, without even a reference book.
posted on September 19, 2004 10:29:01 AM new
Allowing gay marriage is more than just letting the shades go up or down.
If marriage is defined as an institution for heterosexial couples to raise children and preserve the human specie,then gay marriage serves no purpose in that respect.
What gay men and women want is really the benefits of marriage-the legal status,the social recognition and acceptance of their relationship.
Which i think can be achieved without this so called marriage .
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 19, 2004 11:29:23 AM new
Stop: If marriage is defined as an institution for heterosexial couples to raise children and preserve the human specie,then gay marriage serves no purpose in that respect.
If that is your definition, then I guess we should not allow straight couples who can not have children get married. After all they can not procreate so why bother getting married. What about couples that have no desire to have kids? Should they still be allowed to marry?
So only heterosexual couples can raise children. So what do we do with all the children that are being raised by single parents or grand parents or the ones that are in orphanages.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 11:30:30 AM new
stopwhining they probably would not of had any problems getting what they really want... however some of their ilk decided to go for the whole nine yards and it is biting them in the ass...
By the time all the states are done voting... very few will allow homosexual marriage and they have even destroyed their opportunity for civil unions...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on September 19, 2004 11:36:04 AM new
Paraphrasing another poster,
"What you equal rights supporters keep discounting is he will of the people. YOU can't change it when that many people feel this strongly about this issue. "
posted on September 19, 2004 11:36:49 AM new
Paraphrasing another poster,
"What you "Women's Right To Vote" supporters keep discounting is he will of the people. YOU can't change it when that many people feel this strongly about this issue. "
posted on September 19, 2004 11:46:18 AM new
ahhh the liar crowfart chimed in... can't even keep her own word and has the gall to question others.... how amusing.
posted on September 19, 2004 12:16:02 PM newLaws that govern who can and cannot marry?
Nobody cares until it happens to them. Perhaps we should start petitioning the governemnt to start creating more laws about who can and can't marry? Perhaps the government should start telling us how many kids to have and what sex they should be?
Let's ban all inter-racial marriages? - Sorry twelve you would not be able to marry your Asian sweetie.
How about no marriages for those under 25 or over 40?
How about creating a law that says you must marry someone from your own state, or city.? (Those in the south would love this since they already like having sex with relatives). Oops sorry for stating a sterotype
How about your spouse can not be no more than 2 years old or younger than you?
You create one law, where will it end.
I thought the Republicans were not in favor of big government.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 12:34:49 PM new
logansdad,
heterosexual couples can change their mind on having kids,the means is there to achieve the ends.the intention?? can vary ,it is just the fickle part of human nature.
As for orphans,by definition,their parenst no longer exist in this physical world,so they are taken care of by institutions or adopted by private party.
Say if there is a hall where people who are members gain admission and once inside this hall,food is good,abundant and reasonably priced,the atmosphere is friendly and the setting is clean,members enjoy themselves while they are there.
Soon the words spread and more people inquire how to join and find out they do not qualify for whatever reason.
Now they cant find another place just as good as this Hall and they very much want to enjoy the same privilege as the members,what should they do,they will find a way to amend the rules so they will qualify.or
They could form their own hall and offer just as good if not better amenities.
Or they could start a revolution and tear down the hall and rebuild it the way they see fit.
Now some of you may be laughing out loud now if marriage is one big happy hall where food is good and cheap and life is easy,if so where do divorces come from??
I am not gay,i want to know why gay couples want this marriage license,or is it grass is greener on the other side of the fence??
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 19, 2004 01:45:28 PM new
stop:heterosexual couples can change their mind on having kids,the means is there to achieve the ends.the intention?? can vary ,it is just the fickle part of human nature.
That may be so, but based on your definition above, in my opinion you were saying the entire reason for getting married was to procreate? Am I wrong? If not, then straight couples who do not want or can not have children should not be entitled to marriage based on your definition above.
As for orphans,by definition,their parenst no longer exist in this physical world,so they are taken care of by institutions or adopted by private party.
That may be partially right, but what about those children who are wards of the state because their parents are unable to care for them - ie abused or whose parents simply do not want them?
i want to know why gay couples want this marriage license,or is it grass is greener on the other side of the fence??
For the benefits that go along with be defined as a "married couple" - ie health insurance, property rights when your spouse dies, legal guardianship/parent rights if you decide to adopt. Yes while these can be obtained through other legal measures, it is automatic via marriage. It is this same legal issue of equality that we are trying to achieve.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 02:15:07 PM newNobody cares until it happens to them.
Nothing happened to you....gay's have never been allowed to marry.
Perhaps we should start petitioning the governemnt to start creating more laws about who can and can't marry?
We, the people, ARE the 'government' and we are passing laws more laws about who can and can't get married.
Perhaps the government should start telling us how many kids to have and what sex they should be?
Again, it would be the people voting for/supporting this change in large enough numbers to get the law passed.
[i]If issues are important to people they do work to change them
Let's ban all inter-racial marriages[/i]?
Nope, not going back in time.
How about no marriages for those under 25 or over 40?
Again if this was important to enough people.
How about creating a law that says you must marry someone from your own state, or city? See my above point.
(Those in the south would love this since they already like having sex with relatives). Oops sorry for stating a sterotype
You're not sorry at all or you wouldn't have said it, repeatedly. It's stickly sterotping. Making statements like that just allows others to see your prejudice on the subject when you don't like others doing it to you. Ever heard of the Golden Rule...treating others as you'd like to be treated? Or does it only bother you when it's directed towards others? Sure looks that way to me.
How about your spouse can not be no more than 2 years old or younger than you? Oh...sure that's a real important moral issue to most every American I know.
You create one law, where will it end.
This wouldn't be the big deal it is IF the gays hadn't pushed it themselves.
I thought the Republicans were not in favor of big government.
Again...this isn't a dem vs republican issue. It's a moral issue, an issue about the direction our society is either going to take..or not going to take. And it's not only a religious issue either.
posted on September 19, 2004 02:50:11 PM new
logansdad,
marriage as an institution in society has been established for thousand of years,and the original goal is to have a family and continue the human race.
Yes,there are those who dont want children and those who cant have children and those who abandon their children,they are not in the majority.
If the goal is for the gay to fight for the rights of health insurance coverage,insurance companies with their underwriters and actuarials will whip out policies to cater to gay couple's needs if they see it as a viable,doable and of course lucretive new product line.
Legislative measures can be set up for property rights etc,dont we have that now??
Cant you leave your assets to whoever in your will??Or are you referring to govt programs such as SS.
This SS business is dated,remember back in old days man worked ,woman stayed home and age difference may be a few years ,no divorce/remarriage and mortality is lower.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 19, 2004 04:20:47 PM newNobody cares until it happens to them.
Linda it is obvious you have never been in the minority.
I was referring to situations like inter-racial marriages. They were once deemed illegal for no valid reason. Again until you face a situation where you feel you are being discriminated against you will not know what it is like.
You're not sorry at all or you wouldn't have said it, repeatedly. It's stickly sterotping. Making statements like that just allows others to see your prejudice on the subject when you don't like others doing it to you. Ever heard of the Golden Rule...treating others as you'd like to be treated? Or does it only bother you when it's directed towards others? Sure looks that way to me.
Yes I know it is a stereotype and it was used to make a point, but at least I have the guts to admit it right off the bat unlike others who continue to do and still deny it.
This wouldn't be the big deal it is IF the gays hadn't pushed it themselves. It's a moral issue, an issue about the direction our society is either going to take..or not going to take. And it's not only a religious issue either
Did you ever stop to think it was the women and the abortion issue that started society on this downward destruction of moral values. "Hey it is my body and I have a right to kill a defenseless child". It is my body and I have the right to choose if want.
Of course you are going to say it is an entirely different issue. In my opinion is it no different than the gay marriage issue. Abortion is wrong, immoral and against what is in the bible. However the Supreme Court has legalized it. The same goes with the death penalty. Both are morally wrong but still legal. Both in my opinion lead to the destruction of society.
It is because of over zealous, pompous religious people on the right that are afraid of the unknown. They are over reacting to the entire gay marriage issue. Why else would Bush be trying to create a law in which the Supreme Court can not challenge. This is unprecedented in the nation's history and is very unconstitutional.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 04:24:35 PM newmarriage as an institution in society has been established for thousand of years,and the original goal is to have a family and continue the human race.
Yes that is true. I will not disagree with you there. But society changes over times. Traditions are made and broken. I feel the planet is over populated now and there are many kids that are abandoned and do not grow up in loving homes, why add to the problem? Besides if a gay couple really wants to have children science can help. Just like straight couples that can not have children, there are ways around that situation.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 05:12:31 PM new
Stopwinning you have a way with words. I appreciate everything you wrote and agree whole heartedly.
What I want to know is what do owners of business think about giving health care to a gay partner? We don't hear anything from them and I would like to hear something from them. If an employer is against gay marriages do they have to give insurance to them? or will they discontinue insurance all together. Why do gay people want to get married? Gay unions can get power of attorney to get some of the benefits they want but I think they want it all and I don't agree with that. I have to many questions but never hear any answers....
posted on September 19, 2004 05:24:49 PM newWhy do gay people want to get married? Gay unions can get power of attorney to get some of the benefits they want but I think they want it all and I don't agree with that.
There is no difference between "gay marriage" and a civil union in my opinion. One has religious implications and the other doesn't.
Libra if you are saying they are different - one being "religious" and the other being "civil", then the government should have no problem allowing civil unions. But they still do (with the exception of two states).
I have to many questions but never hear any answers....
Funny I feel the same way when I ask why gay marriages should not be legal. There is no "valid" reason why they should not be legal.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 07:10:51 PM new
i think some employers will grant insurance coverage to gay spouse and some will adopt wait and see attitude until state/federal clarify on the status of gay marriage/union.
Now what will be interesting is that say a widower has a friend who is not covered and he decides to help out,lets say he is a retired GM employee and he could not care less what GM has to say,so he does his friend a favor and marry him.
Some of you mention mixed marriages and i would like to add marriage between cousins and siblings or parent/child,both cases illustrate the society interest for self preservation.
In interracial marriage,the early prejudice turns out to have no merits,so society does not ban inter racial marriage .But in the second case,i dont know of any society which approve of parent/child marriage or sibling marrying each other or even first cousins marrying each other.
Altho i know one society with over 1 billion people for thousand of years think children of bilogical sisters can marry each other as they think women genes are inferior.
I think this gay rights issue will resurface,society is evolving,women work these days and support themselves,there are single mother/single father raising their kids alone,may be someday there may not be SS program,it could be replaced by something else,and that something else covers individual,everyone has to work and accrue credit towards old age,disability .
There is no survivor benefits,underage children will be covered by the state irregardless of what the parents earn.
as to assets,you keep the receipt as proof,brand your name on every piece of appliance in the house as yours and take it with you when you leave.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 19, 2004 07:44:50 PM newIn interracial marriage,the early prejudice turns out to have no merits,so society does not ban inter racial marriage
This is the case now, but why were some states so against inter-racial marriages 30-40 years ago? What harm were they to rest of society?
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 19, 2004 07:55:23 PM newNobody cares until it happens to them.
I will give you a current example of how nobody cares about the laws until they apply to them.
The Governor of California - are good friend Arnold. He wants to be president, but can not since he is not a natural born citizen of the U.S. So what is he trying to do? Yes that is right, he is trying to get the law changed. Why? Because he is being "discriminated" against.
I also was watching CNN news this morning. On the program was the wife of one of the American hostages held in Iraq. Her view was the US was correct in that they should never negotiate with terrorists. Today she had a different view because her husband may die in 48 hours.
As I said before, you can have your views about a particular situation, I bet they will change when you are finally faced with that situation you thought would never apply to you.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
Might also make you appear to them to be a faux 'Bible thumper' without a Bible. 
