posted on October 17, 2004 06:00:12 AM new
Updated: 07:07 AM EDT
Thousands Line Up for Desperate Shot at Flu Vaccine
Exhausted, Some Collapse and One Woman Dies
By JENNIFER BUNDY, AP
SOUTH CHARLESTON, W.Va. (Oct. 16) - Seventy-year-old Homer Fink spent eight hours sitting next to a supermarket Halloween display to get a flu shot that he wasn't able to get at five other places.
"I've had five bypasses and six stents in me now. I need the shot," said Fink, who got the third spot in line by arriving at 1 a.m. Friday for a clinic scheduled to start at 9 at the Kroger store. It was the last vaccination clinic in the area.
Scrambling for Shots
The scene was repeated across the country as the nation's suddenly limited supply of flu vaccine was drained. People lined up at pharmacies and supermarkets in the middle of the night: old folks with oxygen tanks, sleeping children bundled up in strollers, people in wheelchairs.
On Saturday, hundreds of people were turned away from a Safeway supermarket in San Francisco.
AP
Deadly Wait for Flu Shot
An elderly woman in California has died after waiting in line for more than five hours for the flu vaccine. Story
The mobile clinic set up inside had 400 doses of flu vaccine, leading to a chaotic scene outside the store as people pushed, shoved and accused each other of cutting in line. Those who did not receive a first-come, first-serve ticket to receive one of the 400 shots were sent home.
Rebecca Chen's parents were among those receiving tickets. She got in line at 11 p.m. Friday and spent the night in the store's parking lot, holding a place until her parents arrived Saturday morning.
"My mom's very sick. She has cancer," said Chen, 42. "My dad's 76 and has diabetes and other health problems. It was one night for me, but it probably saved them from 10 nights in the hospital."
By mid-morning Saturday, the line wrapped around the entire supermarket and blocked the entry to the parking lot.
Throughout the week, seniors endured long lines, often in sunbaked parking lots, to get the flu shots. Some collapsed in exhaustion.
A 79-year-old Orinda woman died Thursday from head injuries after fainting. She had waited four hours in a flu shot line with hundreds of other seniors in the east San Francisco Bay area city of Lafayette. Two elderly women in Concord were hospitalized after collapsing in a vaccine line.
In Alexandria, Va., Saturday, hundreds of people had to be turned away from a Giant supermarket because only 200 doses were available, clinic supervisors said. People had started lining up at 5 a.m., and those lucky enough to make the cutoff, mostly elderly, ended up waiting in folding chairs that lined the Halloween candy aisle and other parts of the store.
A woman was arrested Friday in Shreveport, La., for disorderly conduct, accused of yelling at a police officer who was trying to move a crowd back. Some 600 people had showed up for 250 doses of vaccine.
The temperature neared 90 degrees Friday in Clovis, Calif., as 78-year-old Russ Rock waited in line at a pharmacy, holding ticket No. 264 out of 300 handed out that morning. It was his second day trying to get a shot.
"If anybody told me I'd have to go through all of this to get a flu shot, I don't think I would have gotten one," Rock said, surrounded by other seniors sharing a bit of shade along the side of the building.
Just 250 doses of flu vaccine were available at an Albertsons supermarket in Tampa, Fla., and 65-year-old Suzanne Moore was No. 221 on the list as she sat in a lawn chair reading a magazine just inside the store's front door Friday afternoon.
"I'm real concerned," said Moore, bald from cancer treatments. "I have cancer and I'm taking chemotherapy. It's vital for my immune system that I be inoculated. I don't understand it all how it's gotten to this point."
posted on October 17, 2004 07:00:04 AM new
In Royal Oak, Michigan just outside of Detroit, seniors started waiting in their cars at MIDNIGHT last night to get a shot. Those who did this bought all the other medicines that they needed to make it through the night.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 17, 2004 07:05:34 AM new
My parents also waited in line to get a flu shot only to be turned away. Ahead of them were young men and women (18 - 30s approx. according to my parents) who could most likely withstand a bout of the flu. How can any healthy young individual get the flu shot while the vulnerable elderly cannot and then do it with a clear conscience?
I should have tried to get one. However, I decided to forgo even trying so that people like my parents (over the age of 60) or my granddaughter (6 years old) could get the shot. Shame on those who left the elderly and small children out in the cold.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on October 17, 2004 07:08:11 AM new
In Michigan, a emergency order has been given that will fine health care providers if they give a shot to those who don't fit into the needy catagory. 90 days or 600 bucks.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 17, 2004 10:11:21 AM new
This mess was caused by very poor government planing with no backup. Does that sound familiar? The shots should have been made in 4 or more places. I don't want to hear that U.S. drug companies are not interested in making the flu shots. I have heard the drug U.S. companies say its a low profit high risk operation making flu shots. If these drug companies are willing to let people in America die for the profit line than they should be punished in this election. Get rid of the Bush/Cheney gang and elect John Kerry who instead of backing the GREED will go after the greed for a better America.
posted on October 17, 2004 10:55:04 AM new
Peep - Since you have all of the answers here perhaps you suggest a solution. Here are the absolute facts that you must deal with when creating your solution.
There are 5 companies worldwide that produce Flu vaccine.
Only 2 of those companies produce a vaccine that is approved for children and the elderly.
Flumist has not proven to be effective for seniors in testing.
OK - there you go - Solve the problem. Tell us what it is that should have been done.
You have proven your ability to finger point, now show us what you got in terms of problem solving.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 17, 2004 10:55 AM ]
posted on October 17, 2004 11:34:07 AM new
Fenix, regardless of who's fault it is, there should be some guidlines in place IF something like this happens - when there's not enough to go around for everyone. With the limited amount of shots available, they should be doled out in triage fashion but there doesn't seem to be anything in place - THAT'S what the problem is. Who's responsibilty is it if there are only 2 plants making the vaccine? What procedures are in place if one or both of these factories blew up?
posted on October 17, 2004 12:05:16 PM new
Fenix, that's a tall order to assume that anyone here has a "solution" to a problem that hasn't been investigated and a problem that the Bush administration tells us they have just discovered. As Rusty suggested in the other flu shot thread the fault with the Bush administration is that they fail to plan. They fail to make contingency plans in case something like this happens. Obviously it's not a good idea to rely so heavily on one or two factories without any backup. Britain, for example, has spread its order for flu vaccines among five suppliers in order to avoid the predicament America now faces.
posted on October 17, 2004 12:25:49 PM new
It's not a tall order Helen it's only a tall order if you are desperate to figure out a way to legitimately blame the administration.
It seems to me that what you and Krafty and many others here are trying to say is that the government should be dictating to manufacturers what they create, where they purchase and and where they manufacture their products. All I can say is that I hope to god that never comes to be and if it does, I've very glad I will not be living here.
What a terrifying notion you have what government should be
.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 17, 2004 12:29:49 PM new
::Britain, for example, has spread its order for flu vaccines among five suppliers in order to avoid the predicament America now faces. ::
And three of those factories produce vaccines not proven to be effective among the elderly which is why they are not FDA approved. Of course if the government purchased the supplies today from those countries and eldery still got the flu because of the ineffective vaccine you would just go off on a new rant against them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 17, 2004 12:40:14 PM new
Fenix, It's crutial to understand what happened so that hopefully that tragic error that was obviously made in the Chiron factory can be avoided in the future. Also, it may wake up the Bush administration to the fact that they need a contingency plan in case of failure and more factories to avoid failure on such a large scale.
posted on October 17, 2004 01:12:40 PM new
Helen - I don't disagree that there needs to be a clear understanding of what when wrong in order to avoid the same failures in the future I just don't believe that fault lies with the US government in this case.
As to the concept of a wider manufacturing web, again, I do not think that it is the governments responsibility to mandate to companies what they will manufacture. I also think that there is little doubt that next two years at least five companies will start to produce FDSA approved vaccines in order to cash in on the furor that this incident has caused.
I predict rather extensive marketing campaigns for these new companies aimed at private clinics and eledercare facilities with photos from the lines this weekend and feeble little grey haired men and women in hospital beds with IVs attached for as far as the eye can see.
You see Helen - the one wonderful thing about about a capitalistic society is that there is never a shortage of those willing to do what is neccessary to cash in on hysteria
Re Mexico: Thanks - I am really looking forward to it. If for no other reason than that once I get there I will finally have a valid excuse for not helping clear out anyone elses basement, storeage units, etc. Ever since I made the final decision and said I am going that's all I have been doing.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 17, 2004 01:14 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2004 01:26:39 PM new
Fenox03, If you can't believe what I am about to write than I believe you are lost in the Bush/Cheney lie machine. This President did not in any way shape or form protect the American people regarding flu vaccine.
Your right I am powerless to do something about this flu mess but I am not the President. That is way we have a President and his staff they are suppose protect the American people. Bush did nothing once again to protect the American people. This President and his staff once again had no plan or backup plan to protect the people but he did have several plans to protect the drug companies.
I have no power but this President DOES and has had 4 years to work on this WELL KNOWN PROBLEM. The problem is there is not enough greedy U.S. drug companies that are willing to produce a low profit flu vaccine. Bush and his gang could have brought big pressure on these greedy drug companies. Instead Bush's choice was to be in the back pocket of the GREEDY drug companies. Bush choose to give them Hugh tax breaks and to protect the drug companies profits by blocking Americans from buying cheaper drugs from Canada. Bush's "HARD JOB" was to help the greedy drug companies not the American people. Now AMERICAN people will die because of the Bush/Cheney GREED.
This flu mess is another reason I say, Get rid of the Bush/Cheney gang and elect John Kerry who instead of backing the GREED will go after the greed.
Bottom line is if the Bush/Cheney gang had thought of the American people 4 years ago. If they had brought pressure on drug companies and had a better plan there would be NO VACCINE SHORTAGE TODAY. Once again the Bush/Cheney choice was big business over the American people.
posted on October 17, 2004 01:37:03 PM new
OK - so just to clarify - you believe that our government should have the right to come into an american business and tell them what they will sell, where they will buy it from and where it will be manufactured?
Sorry sweetie, but no I do not believe that is right. I also don't believe that it has anything to do with being caught up on a Bush/Cheney lie machine (Have you bothered to pay attention to my posts for the past year? I don't like Bush), it has more to do with, as a small business person, who actually will have a business that operates from the US even after I move to Mexico next year, wanting to continue to benefit from a free maket society as opposed to the one you are proposing which, honestly, sounds more like something a communist government or dictatorship would do.
(All hail the queen of run on sentences - may my riegn live on )
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 17, 2004 01:38 PM ]
posted on October 17, 2004 02:05:17 PM new
No, but because this is a public health issue, the government should have altenatives in place in case something like this happens.
posted on October 17, 2004 02:19:23 PM new
Sorry my friend. Yes, I believe the Federal Government should put more pressure on greedy drug companies to stop them from raping the American people. Yes I believe if the Bush/Cheney gang had done a "HARD JOB" for the American people and not big business there would be no vaccine shortage today. Why not have the Federal government put a little muscle on big business to help the American people. After all this Federal Government gives them big monies don't they.
About your move, did you check out Puerto Rico? Its a beautiful Island with beautiful weather,beautiful breaches,beautiful women,fresh sea food,fresh fruit,good rum from Haiti. Plus you pay no Federal income tax but get all the U.S. federal benefits. Not a bad deal my family and I spent 5 years there and enjoyed it.
posted on October 17, 2004 02:53:44 PM new
Re: Puerto Rico - I have nothing against Puerto Rico and do have friends there. Actually I have a standing job offer with one of them but I have never considered living there. Beautiful women are not a draw for me - they are competition .
I love Mexico, I think the people are amazing and am really looking forward to the opportunity to explore the different regions. I'll still have to pay some taxes but as a resident of a foreign country I do get more than a few breaks. I know last year there was an 80K exemption on income, who knows what it will be next year.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 17, 2004 02:55:52 PM new
Krafty - there are TWO companies that produce approved vaccines in the entire world. Exactly what alternative should they have had in place in the face of that reality?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 17, 2004 04:13:21 PM new
KD - there should be some guidlines in place IF something like this happens - when there's not enough to go around for everyone. With the limited amount of shots available, they should be doled out in triage fashion but there doesn't seem to be anything in place - THAT'S what the problem is.
That's what everyone was instructed to do. But not everyone in this world does what's suggested by the CDC. Some started gouging on prices....they were warned too. But there are NO laws for force anybody to do what is 'suggested'.
Who's responsibilty is it if there are only 2 plants making the vaccine?
I'd say most likely the lawyers that are always suing the drug companies when something goes wrong with a product they produce. Also, kerry voted against a bill that would have put a CAP on the lawsuits awards. And you expect more companie to want to produce a product that brings them a very low profit margin and THEN they're open for enormous law suits? YOU try taking that responsibility in your own business.
What procedures are in place if one or both of these factories blew up? That's what I asked helen...in a little different way. All will notice she didn't answer my [almost] same question about what procedures say...the clinton administration had in place or put in place to prevent such an occurance.
posted on October 17, 2004 04:16:02 PM new
And then there's bigpeepa....complaining, blaming, accusing, etc etc...but has no solution to offer on how it could have been handled differently.
Nope...just more of his outrageous blame game again President Bush....now even when he couldn't possibily have been the cause. Won't stop BPE though.
posted on October 17, 2004 04:36:04 PM new "You see Helen - the one wonderful thing about about a capitalistic society is that there is never a shortage of those willing to do what is necessary to cash in on hysteria
Fenix, It would seem that way but without a significant increase in profit few companies will be willing to try to "cash" in. The problem is that few companies are anxious to cash in when profits are so low, liabilities are so high and the cost of maintaining and upgrading vaccine plants to meet regulatory standards is so high. Thirty years ago twenty five companies made vaccines for the U.S. Now there are only two...while the demand for the vaccine escalates, the profit decreases.
I believe that the government does have an ethical obligation to try to recruit and work with companies to develop this vaccine. Bush along with previous administrations are all guilty of failing to do that.
posted on October 17, 2004 04:36:54 PM new
But that's just it Fenix. There is no alternative in place and there should be. Of course, things are run a bit differently here, so I'm a bit ignorant to how your medical system works to begin with. All I can say is that the health of a nation has to include everyone or the only healthy ones will be the rich. If your leader/government doesn't make sure of this then the sick and poor will go untreated. If your government cared about these people, they would have something in place to make sure these people were treated first if supplies were low - at the very least.
posted on October 17, 2004 07:04:18 PM new
My answer to any Bush backing ill posters on this board is below. I thank them of the opportunity to post my answer again. Please see below.
I have no power but this President DOES and has had 4 years to work on this WELL KNOWN PROBLEM. The problem is there is not enough greedy U.S. drug companies that are willing to produce a low profit flu vaccine. Bush and his gang could have brought big pressure on these greedy drug companies. Instead Bush's choice was to be in the back pocket of the GREEDY drug companies. Bush choose to give them Hugh tax breaks and to protect the drug companies profits by blocking Americans from buying cheaper drugs from Canada. Bush's "HARD JOB" was to help the greedy drug companies not the American people. Now AMERICAN people will die because of the Bush/Cheney GREED.
posted on October 17, 2004 07:41:05 PM newKraftdinner:" If your government cared about these people" Isn't this your government also?
bigpeepa "Yes, I believe the Federal Government should put more pressure on greedy drug companies to stop them from raping the American people." What about the automotive companies aren't they raping the American people. What about the "Antique Dealers that buy low and sell high" aren't you one of those?
This is also for bigpeepa. How many drug companies are in the US? I think you need to research just where the drug companies are.
Another question for bigpeepa. How can the government MAKE the drug companies make the flu vaccine?
This question is for Helen. The problem is that few companies are anxious to cash in when profits are so low, liabilities* are so high and the cost of maintaining and upgrading vaccine plants to meet regulatory standards is so high.
*Liabilities because of the Mal Practice Lawyers.
Now if the regulatory standards were lowered how would that help? Better drugs?
posted on October 17, 2004 08:36:32 PM new "*Liabilities because of the Mal Practice Lawyers. Now if the regulatory standards were lowered how would that help? Better drugs"
No, that would not help at all. The point is that the drug companies need more money from our government in order to make the business of manufacturing vaccines worthwhile. The fact that these companies complain about maintaining and upgrading factories is certainly no reason to relax our standards, especially in light of the recent contamination. Companies that manufacture vaccines need more money in order to make the job worthwhile. The same applies to liability. We can't reduce their liability responsibility without removing a substantial incentive to manufacture safe and effective vaccine.
Big bucks are being spent on research and development for inoculation against diseases such as anthrax that may never be used. We should give the same attention and money to the development of flu vaccine because we know for a fact that approximately 40,000 or more people will die every year if not vaccinated against flu.
posted on October 17, 2004 09:05:58 PM new
Helen you said - The point is that the drug companies need more money from our government in order to make the business of manufacturing vaccines worthwhile.
This doesn't make any sense. I though you and most of the posters in here think the government is giving the companies to much.
It can't be both ways and BTW I think the companies are from a foreign country but I am not sure.
With only two drug companies making the flu vaccine I am sure we are not the #1 priority. Although we would like it to be. Every country is equal and I will bet that other countries are having the same problem. Now getting to the root of the problem why was the vaccine contaminated? Because of faulty equipment or human error? I haven't read that yet so I can't say. I doubt if it was because they needed more money they needed better quality control. I for one am happy they found out about the problem before they gave everyone their flu shot.
Canada is a much smaller country and maybe they ordered their vaccine from the other drug company and that one didn't have problems. We don't know as we never get Canadian news. At least some US citizens received the flu shot.
Last year there were so many flu strains the shots that were given didn't even touch most of the flu and another reason drug companies don't know what flu strain is going to be for the year and they probably take a gamble on what it will be.
posted on October 18, 2004 08:09:58 AM new
T h a t s w h a t I t h o u g h t a s n o o n e c o u l d b e t h a t u n i n f o r m e d b u t t h e n a g a i n o n e d o e s w o n d e r w h e n t h e y r e a d a f e w o f t h e c o m m e n t s j u s t t h e p a s t t w o d a y s
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
