posted on October 23, 2004 07:59:42 AM new
Ten days until we make a very important decision about the direction our country will be taking....and kerry STILL has not opened up his full military records so we can verify the stories he'd so like us all to believe. There is a reason for him not doing so. If he felt opening them up would help his chances of winning this election, we would have already seen them. He's hiding something.
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townhall.com
Kerry's Dishonorable Discharge
Mark Alexander October 23, 2004
"Never suppose that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing..."
--Thomas Jefferson
"Reporting for duty"? For a guy who's hitched his entire presidential campaign to his military service record, John Kerry sure is parsimonious when it comes to releasing that record. As noted in this column on more than one occasion, Kerry has consistently refused to sign a Standard Form 180 authorizing the Department of Defense to release all of his records.
George W. Bush's military records were so spotless that Dan Rather gleefully trotted out some fabricated documents in order to kick up a little dust. Of course, if Rather were a real journalist rather than just a TV talking head, he might actually develop a source who could find out what the remaining (approximately 100) pages in Kerry's DoD service jacket reveal.
What, exactly, is Kerry hiding? It is already common knowledge that most of his celebrated heroics were spurious, and that most of his medals were without merit (see "Kerry's Quagmire" at
But given that the cat's already out of the bag, why not just sign the Standard Form 180?
For his part, Kerry claims he received an "Honorable Discharge" and that all his records have been released and are posted on his website, Kerry-04.com -- uh, make that JohnKerry.com. But Kerry has refused to say when he received an Honorable Discharge.
Indeed, some of his military records are posted on his site -- but not all of them. Here, an experienced eye can read enough into what has been released by Kerry to develop a good profile of what hasn't been released.
It is our considered opinion, therefore, that John Kerry was separated from the military under a less than honorable discharge.
Among Kerry's released records is a 1977 cover letter from Jimmy Carter's Navy Secretary, W. Graham Claytor. What is revealing about this document is that it notes Kerry's original discharge was subject to review by a "board of officers" -- yet no such review should be necessary for an Honorable Discharge.
The review was conducted in accordance with "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163," which pertains to grounds for involuntary separation from military service.
As many Vietnam veterans who served their nation with dignity and honor will recall, Jimmy Carter's first official act as president was the signing of Executive Order 4483--less than an hour after his inauguration on 21 January 1977. EO 4483 provided general amnesty for draft evaders, war protesters and other offenders of that era. Its corresponding, and equally dubious, DoD directive took effect in March of 1977, expanding that amnesty to include separation from military service by other than honorable discharges. The DoD specified an appeal procedure whereby discharges could be reviewed on an individual basis to determine whether the status of a particular discharge could be revised.
Having lost his first bid for Congress, Kerry no doubt decided that his political future would be brighter as a war hero rather than a war protestor. While there are several categories of discharges beneath honorable, including general, medical, bad conduct and other than honorable, it is very likely that Kerry's discharge was dishonorable.
Supporting this assertion is the fact that Kerry had all his medals mysteriously reinstated in 1985. He claims that he lost his medal certificates (perhaps these are what he famously threw over that Capitol fence in protest), but when a military officer is subject to a Dishonorable Discharge, in addition to the loss of pay benefits and allowances, all medals and honors are revoked. In any case, it would be a cinch for John Kerry to refute our claim by simply signing that Standard Form 180. But he won't. Nor will hard-hitting journalists like Katie Couric and Dr. Phil press him on this issue.
Thus, while Kerry can correctly say -- thanks to Jimmy Carter -- that he received an Honorable Discharge, he could also say with equal precision that he received "other than honorable discharge." His activities as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War were, indeed, forgiven by Carter's EO 4483 and the subsequent DoD directive.
However, according to legal scholars, John Kerry's meetings with enemy agents from Communist North Vietnam on multiple occasions between 1970 and 1972 are not covered under EO 4483. For that reason, we delivered to U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft on Monday of this week a "Petition for Investigation and Indictment," calling on the Department of Justice to determine conclusively whether Kerry's actions, in direct violation of UCMJ (Article 104 part 904), U.S. Code (18 USC Sec. 2381 and 18 USC Sec. 953) and other applicable laws and acts of Congress, constitute treason. (To read the text of the petitioners' request, go to http://patriotpetitions.us/kerry/letter.asp )
Why prosecute Kerry now?
In October, 2003, Mr. Kerry chose to make his disputed Vietnam War record the centerpiece of his campaign for the presidency. In response, the more than 180,000 signatories of the above-referenced petition chose to make Mr. Kerry's war record the centerpiece of their campaign to determine whether his actions are subject to the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3.
The pertinent language states: "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President ... having previously taken an oath ... to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
While it is clear that no action will be taken on the petitioners' request prior to 2 November, we remain committed to holding Senator Kerry accountable for his actions regardless of the outcome of his presidential bid. Indeed, we are all committed to serving Kerry with an irrevocable dishonorable discharge from public office.
Quote of the week...
"They're the men who served with John Kerry in Vietnam. They're his entire chain of command, most of the officers in Kerry's unit. ... And they're the men who spent years in North Vietnamese prison camps. Tortured for refusing to confess to what John Kerry accused them of being -- war criminals. ... Why is this relevant? Because character and honesty matter. Especially in a time of war."
--Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and POWs for Truth in their most recent ad on Kerry's war record and character.
On cross-examination..."On more than one occasion, Senator Kerry has referred to the fight at Tora Bora in Afghanistan during late 2001 as a missed opportunity for America. He claims that our forces had Osama bin Laden cornered and allowed him to escape. ... As commander of the allied forces in the Middle East, I was responsible for the operation at Tora Bora, and I can tell you that the senator's understanding of events doesn't square with reality....
Contrary to Senator Kerry, President Bush never 'took his eye off the ball' when it came to Osama binLaden.
The war on terrorism has a global focus. It cannot be divided into separate and unrelated wars, one in Afghanistan and another in Iraq. Both are part of the same effort to capture and kill terrorists before they are able to strike America again, potentially with weapons of mass destruction. Terrorist cells are operating in some 60 countries, and the United States, in coordination with dozens of allies, is waging this war on many fronts."
--General Tommy Franks
[Mark Alexander is Executive Editor and Publisher of The Federalist Patriot, a Townhall.com]
[ edited by Linda_K on Oct 23, 2004 08:07 AM ]
posted on October 23, 2004 11:39:16 AM new
Yes, you have to listen to what is not said.
Kerry's original discharge was subject to review by a "board of officers" is the smoking gun. This proves he did not get an Honorable Discharge. Let me caution that this does not mean he got a dishonorable discharge. There are five classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other than Honorable, Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable.
Quote from this last link: There is one odd coincidence that gives some weight to the possibility that Mr. Kerry was dishonorably discharged. Mr. Kerry has claimed that he lost his medal certificates and that is why he asked that they be reissued. But when a dishonorable discharge is issued, all pay benefits, and allowances, and all medals and honors are revoked as well. And five months after Mr. Kerry joined the U.S. Senate in 1985, on one single day, June 4, all of Mr. Kerry's medals were reissued.
So, let's review the facts.
1.) Kerry refuses to sign the form 180 releasing his military records for perusal.
2.) Kerry's discharge was subject to review by a board of officers. NOT needed or done for an Honorable Discharge.
3.) Kerry's medals were reissued.
4.) A discharge is to be considered "under dishonorable conditions" if "in the case of an officer, a resignation is accepted for the good of the service."
So, after his testimony before the legislature IMHO, the U.S. Navy gave Lt. Kerry the option of a Court Martial or resigning for the good of the service. Guess which choice allowed him to slink away and get it corrected another day?
posted on October 23, 2004 12:27:25 PM new
That very well could be it, parklane. It sure wouldn't surprise me one bit. It would seem that his Senate testimony would have found many objections at that time from those who then felt he was siding with our enemies.
I also wonder though about what his three commanding officers had said about him getting the three purple hearts in such a short period of time. At the time we discussed his 14-16 week stint over in VN...and at that time his CO's were quoted as saying they were GLAD to get him out and stateside again. And they didn't have too much good to say about his behavior at that time either.
But looks like we'll never know since he refuses to sign the 180. And after all the dems put President Bush through when he was running for Gov. of Texas, President in 2000 and again this election...sure seems there's a HUGE double standard of what they require from only the opposition.
edited to add - I just read your link.....LOL @
[i]The Navy was p.o.-ed too. They yanked Kerry's security clearance when it became axiomatic he was a Naval Reserve officer not to be trusted. One retired agent reportedly observed, "Lieutenant Kerry wasn't cleared to know what time it was!"
posted on October 23, 2004 04:06:05 PM new
bush was too cowardly fight for his country.
He was a yellow-bellied, coke snorting, drunken #*!@ who aided and abetted the enemy by using his daddy's influence to keep him out of Vietnam.
The lowest slime of the earth is a so-called "man" who is too afraid to fight himself but gleefully sends others to fight and die.....something HE was NOT willing to do.
bush is scum, garbage, but does have some idiot bully neanderthal types who think war is fun and fine and a great way of life....as long as they're not involved, who will vote for him.
posted on October 23, 2004 05:48:26 PM new
And that is the reason why O'Neill & Corso named the Swift Boat Vets book, "Unfit for Command".
Hey, hey Ho, ho Kerry - sign the 1-8-0
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 23, 2004 05:48:48 PM new
It's amazing how some people will support a military deserter like Bush over a decorated war hero like Kerry.
They creep and crawl about the earth desparately trying to find something, anything, to slander Kerry.
But these "patriots" who pretend to support our military people, remain silent about Bush's military record.
Why would anyone want a military deserter like Bush as commander-in-chief ?
This what the republicans have come to- slander a combat veteran and decorated war hero like Kerry in favor of a lying yellow belly like Bush.
posted on October 23, 2004 05:53:03 PM new
The Swift Boat Vets are getting quite the reputation with veterans.
There are some vet honor guards that have now said they would refuse to give grave site honors to any of them.
But these Swift Boat liars do prove one thing-- I wouldn't put past any one of the them the war crimes that were committed in Vietnam by Americans.
What the Swift Boat liars have done has proved they have no honor and no integrity. It's too bad they came back from Vietnam alive. Our country would be better off without slime like them.
posted on October 23, 2004 06:04:17 PM new
Crowfarm and Reamond, I had started another topic on the 180
The thing here is that Bush is NOT running on any kind of military record. (I'm sure you all will say no sh!t to that)But, John Kerry started and is continuing to campaign with his service in Vietnam. When you do that, you should have a full disclosure of his records.
posted on October 24, 2004 05:40:01 PM new
Kerry is dishonorable. As an ex-sailor, I am so proud of the U.S. Navy. They had no problem getting rid of an embarrassing felonious officer.
"What the Swift Boat liars have done has proved they have no honor and no integrity. It's too bad they came back from Vietnam alive. Our country would be better off without slime like them," said the piece of #*!@.
Reamond, you're letting your cowflop persona ooze over into this ID.
posted on October 25, 2004 12:06:13 PM newAs an ex-sailor, I am so proud of the U.S. Navy.
You must have been twinkle toe's bunk buddy.
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
I bet you think you are the camel and not the rich man. Remeber Matthew 19:30:
But many that are first will be last, and the last first.
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on October 25, 2004 12:13:28 PM new
A pet shop owner in my neighborhood used to say that his parrot could "cuss like a sailor". Until parklane started posting here, I thought that the shop owner was joking. I couldn't believe that a grown man could use a vocabulary with so much emphasis on excrement and body orifices.
posted on October 25, 2004 02:06:45 PM new
parklane64 is just frustrated that he can't make the case against Kerry, and he can't deny Bush was a military deserter.
posted on October 25, 2004 06:34:18 PM new
Actually, this thread makes an excellent case against Kerry. Thanks for the help in keeping it bumped.
If Kerry received a dishonorable discharge He lost his purple hearts when he resigned for the good of the service. The medals he has now are the 'honorary' (how ironic the word) equivalent given back to him. He's worst than a combat zero. So, Phhhhbbbbbtttthhhhhhpppppp!
posted on October 26, 2004 12:08:46 PM new
What could be more dishonarable than being too chickshit and drunk to fight for our country but happily send others to die ???????
The lowest of the low...scum beyond imagination!
posted on October 27, 2004 10:14:57 AM new
Most decorated U.S. vet:
Kerry a 'Benedict Arnold'
Ex-POW campaigns against Democrat, denounces him for 'war crimes' charge
Posted: October 27, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
The nation's most highly decorated living veteran told a hometown audience in Sioux City, Iowa, Democratic Party presidential candidate John Kerry "will go down in history as the Benedict Arnold of 1971."
Col. George "Bud" Day, an Air Force pilot who spent 67 months in a North Vietnamese prison and was awarded the Medal of Honor among other decorations, visited Sioux City to campaign against Kerry.
"The notion that his guy would think he is qualified to be president of the United States when he has already pledged his allegiance to North Vietnam makes absolute zero sense,'' Day told the Sioux City Journal. "My view is he basically will go down in history sometime as the Benedict Arnold of 1971.''
Day said Kerry dishonored the country by accusing his fellow veterans of war crimes and atrocities and for meeting with America's communist enemy leaders in Paris.
While Kerry was denouncing U.S. troops for "war crimes," Day was brutally tortured by his North Vietnamese captors. He is one of several former POWs featured in some of the latest Swift Boat Veterans for Truth TV ads. The anti-Kerry group has spent more than $10 million trying to subvert Kerry's chances of becoming president. In one of the spots, running in key battleground states, Day directly addresses Kerry: "How can you expect our sons and daughters to follow you, when you condemned their fathers and grandfathers?"
Day also is interviewed in "Stolen Honor: Wounds That Never Heal,'' a documentary about the effects of the anti-war movement on American POWs in Vietnam. Parts of the controversial film aired last week on a network of local stations owned by Sinclair Broadcast Group. Democrats condemned the documentary and broadcasts as one-sided and a veiled contribution to President Bush's re-election campaign.
Day, whose plane was shot down over North Vietnam Aug. 26, 1967, was the only POW to escape from North Vietnam. He was recaptured two weeks later, within two miles of freedom.
Day said Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and his other anti-war activities encouraged the North Vietnamese to continue the war and mistreat the POWs.
The Florida resident is a celebrity in Sioux City. He was honored by his hometown when local officials renamed Sioux City's airport Sioux Gateway Airport/Col. Bud Day Field.
Kerry has been dogged by criticism from Vietnam vets throughout his campaign. Yesterday, the Special Forces Veterans who served in Vietnam released an open letter to Kerry opposing his candidacy.
"He slandered and dishonored all Vietnam veterans in false and exaggerated testimony before the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee," the group said in its statement.
The veterans demanded that Kerry sign the Standard Form 180 to release all his military records so the public could determine, before the election, whether or not he is telling the truth about his service.
Of 377 Special Forces Vietnam veterans who reviewed the letter, 365 endorsed it in solidarity with the Swift Boat Vets.
"When Kerry chose to make Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign," said Steve Sherman, the letter coordinator, "it awoke smoldering opposition from two-and-a-half million Vietnam veterans who understood how Kerry had used secret meetings with enemy leaders and propaganda hearings to start his political career at the expense of men under fire, POWs and those who served honorably."
Those secret meetings with the enemy were the subject of a WorldNetDaily exclusive yesterday revealing the first documentary evidence that Vietnamese communists were directly steering John Kerry's anti-war group Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
One freshly unearthed document, captured by the U.S. from Vietnamese communists in 1971 and later translated indicates the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese delegations to the Paris peace talks that year were used as the communications link to direct the activities of Kerry and other anti-war activists who attended.
Kerry insists he attended the talks only because he happened to be in France on his honeymoon and maintains he met with both sides. But previously revealed records indicate the future senator made two, and possibly three, trips to Paris to meet with Viet Cong leader Madame Nguyen Thi Binh then promote her plan's demand for U.S. surrender.
Jerome Corsi, a specialist on the Vietnam era, told WND the new discoveries are the "most remarkable documents I've seen in the entire history of the anti-war movement."
"We're not going to say he's an agent for Vietnamese communists, but it's the next thing to it," he said. "Whether he was consciously carrying out their direction or naively doing what they wanted, it amounted to the same thing – he advanced their cause."
Corsi, co-author of the Swift Boat Vets and POWs for Truth best-seller "Unfit for Command," and Scott Swett, who maintains the group's website, have posted a summary of the discovery on the website of Wintersoldier.com.
Corsi says the documents show how the North Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, the People's Coalition for Peace and Justice, the Communist Party of the USA and Kerry's VVAW worked closely together to achieve the Vietnamese communists' primary objective – the defeat of the U.S. in Vietnam.
"I think what we've discovered is a smoking gun," Corsi said. "We knew when we wrote 'Unfit for Command' that Kerry had met with Madame Binh and then promoted her peace plan."
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on October 27, 2004 10:17:24 AM new
Do you really think she cares? It obviously matters to you, though--otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to tell her you are ignoring her.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on October 27, 2004 10:29:46 AM new
You're not missing a thing, parklane.
The proven liar just continues to post more derogatory statements - nothing new.
posted on October 27, 2004 10:59:20 AM new
parklane - Again...you're only missing more name calling....nothing at all to do with kerry's DIShonorable discharges....or less than honorable one.
They can't address the topic so they resort to the [what they consider funny] name calling.
posted on October 27, 2004 04:13:55 PM new
Their name-calling can't hurt me, Linda. And it helps keep this informative expose' of Jane Fonda Kerry's 'honor' at the top in the RT forum.
Quote, "Kerry had used secret meetings with enemy leaders and propaganda hearings to start his political career at the expense of men under fire, POWs and those who served honorably," unquote.
Only traitors and queers will vote for the likes of Kerry. Oh, and people with their head up their biblical beast of burden.
posted on October 27, 2004 08:24:35 PM newOnly traitors and queers will vote for the likes of Kerry. Oh, and people with their head up their biblical beast of burden.
Well only bible thumping rednecks who have sex with their children and cousins will be voting for Bush.
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
and happy jack returns 
