posted on November 1, 2004 02:43:17 AM new
Hi... this was posted this weekend on a message board ... in my humble opinion, it gives a profound insight to the war on terrorism .... --- thanks...
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"As a former Marine, I get it and so do all the Marines that I correspond with currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Two of which are my cousin and a very close friend of ten years.
We went into Iraq not only with the purpose of removing Saddam and his evil sons, but to draw Al-Qaeda into a fight. We did this to keep that fight from being fought on our soil.
We have created this stage in Iraq so civilians like you and myself don't have to fight here.
Usama bin Laden sent a video because he can't send a bomb. Our troops have disrupted Al-Qaeda's network. All they can do now is make threatening videos and behead innocent unarmed civilians to get out attention. President Bush has put our country on the offensive instead of waiting for the "Global Test" to allow us to defend our soil.
According to Usama bin Laden, President Bush had declared war on Islam and that is why he ordered the attack on the World Trade Center. One problem with that...Bush had only been in office for eight months, so when was this so-called War on Islam declared?
The attack on 9/11 was being orchestrated during the Clinton Administration. (16) of the (19) terrorists involved were living here for two years prior to the attacks, but Clinton has zero accountability.
As I respect your opinion, I must say I think you are wrong. We need President Bush back in office more than ever. It's John Kerry that we can't afford to be in the White House.
John Kerry is no leader...He left his men and his command after (4) months in Vietnam and he's called a hero. I seem to remember that Oliver North was awarded (5) Purple Hearts and only accepted (2) because he did not want to be discharged. He didn't want to leave his men or his command.
posted on November 1, 2004 06:01:09 AM new
ONE marine's opinion and ill-informed and not very bright at that.
John Kerry actually DID lead men in combat unlike this donkey's hero bush who hid under his bed during the Vietnam war.
Ya, I guess the neonazicons are happy Iraqi civilians and American soldiers are being slaughtered somewhere else....out of sight, out of mind!
The attack on 9/11 was carried out and in it's final stages while BUSH was in office but really on vacation 46% of the time and refused to read his daily briefings about terrorists.
What Oliver North has to do with any of this is beyond comprehension.
posted on November 1, 2004 06:47:29 AM new
Spoken like the true cowfarm that you are. Aint has it correct. Slick Willie was too busy spirting on Monica instead of watching out for our best interests.
John Kerry in Vietnam, as proven by 99% of the troops under and with him testify to the fact of how incompetent a leader he really was. That is why he was dishonorably discharged and was spitting in the faces of the troops with Jane Fonda.
When Rob Sarra headed out to Iraq in January, 2003 as an infantry sergeant, he had no illusions about the darker side of combat. But the 31-year old was eager to do his duty to his country and to the United States Marine Corps.
But one incident would change almost everything this soldier believed in for the most of his life. It was the day he opened fire on an unarmed Iraqi woman. When he saw the white flag in hands of a dead woman that he'd mistaken for a suicide bomber, Rob began to question the war, and his role as one of its foot soldiers. And though he remained devoted to the Marine Corps, he never felt quite the same again about his presence in Iraq.
....When you look back, how has this war changed you?
I think it's opened my eyes. I think it really reinforced my feelings on what these guys [soldiers] sacrifice, and what they are sacrificing now. And what an honorable job it is.
It opened my eyes to political things. It got me looking into myself and looking at the world and the decisions that our politicians make as pretty serious things. I wasn't a very political person before this.
So now I'm part of Iraq Veterans Against the War something that two years ago I never thought I would be doing. I'm speaking out against the war, and speaking very publicly. I'm going to schools and colleges. I'm also speaking out at protests. So it's just been a very big change for me.
What I've been doing, though, is to stay non-partisan. I've been doing that because people have got to remember that this isn't something political. There are both Democrats and Republicans with kids over there fighting. If you say, "If you're Republican, you're for the war. And if you're Democrat, you're against the war," it just doesn't make sense.
For the guys over there, politics isn't a factor to them. It's about fighting for that guy next to you and getting home in one piece and getting back to your family.
What are your hopes and fears now that you look at the future?
I hope that this war is going to end sometime soon. That we can bring all these guys home and Iraq will be stable. That we didn't just go in there and stir up a huge hornet's nest.
My biggest fear is that our country is going to go on doing these pre-emptive strikes against others places like Iran and North Korea. That we're going to jump into another war without finishing this one.
I'm also afraid of a military strike back here in the United States. I really don't think we're safer because we invaded Iraq.
Personally, I'm just hoping to be able to make a difference. I think already have a little bit. I've opened people's eyes to what warfare is all about.
If you had five minutes with the president whomever it may be on Nov. 3, George Bush or John Kerry what would you say to him?
I would ask him what his plan is to get us out of Iraq. What the next step is. And I would like to drive home to whomever is elected that the next time we go to war, it should be for a very good reason. It should be as a last resort because there's been a lot of suffering on both sides. Many, many, many young men and women are going to be coming home that have experienced the worst in life.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on November 1, 2004 12:12:26 PM newWe went into Iraq not only with the purpose of removing Saddam and his evil sons, but to draw Al-Qaeda into a fight.
Oh really ? Then why did your lying commander Bush and his side kick chickenhawk Cheney say it was because of imminent threat from WOMDs ?
We did this to keep that fight from being fought on our soil.We have created this stage in Iraq so civilians like you and myself don't have to fight here.
So we were going to have a fight on our soil over oil ?
Usama bin Laden sent a video because he can't send a bomb.
He never has sent a bomb - he sent Saudi Arabian hi-jackers funded by Saudi Arabian money. And this creep is still sending videos because we have a retarded president that sent YOU to Iraq instead of Afghanistan and Pakistan to kill the dirty bastar d.
Our troops have disrupted Al-Qaeda's network.
Disrupted ?? You mean they can no longer get hi-jackers across our borders ? That had nothing to do with our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. But they are still bombing and killing. With disruption like this, I would hate to see you declare victory.
All they can do now is make threatening videos and behead innocent unarmed civilians to get out attention.President Bush has put our country on the offensive instead of waiting for the "Global Test" to allow us to defend our soil.
Are you as stupid as Bush? Do you really think that a terrorist organization will confront a conventional military force in a conventional way ? Have you ever read any history of the Vietnam war? We could not even beat a quasi-conventional force with its own nation state.
According to Usama bin Laden, President Bush had declared war on Islam and that is why he ordered the attack on the World Trade Center. One problem with that...Bush had only been in office for eight months, so when was this so-called War on Islam declared?
It doesn't make one wit of difference what bin laden said. We are not negotiatiing a peace treaty with him, and it still doesn't justify going into Iraq.
The attack on 9/11 was being orchestrated during the Clinton Administration. (16) of the (19) terrorists involved were living here for two years prior to the attacks, but Clinton has zero accountability.
Clinton has zero accountability in the same way Reagan and Bush1 have none for arming bin Laden and creating his terrorist network. And 16 of those hi-jackers were from and funded by the country who Bush is in bed with.
As I respect your opinion, I must say I think you are wrong. We need President Bush back in office more than ever.
We need Bush as president like we need a flu epidemic.
It's John Kerry that we can't afford to be in the White House.
Pure BS.
John Kerry is no leader...He left his men and his command after (4) months in Vietnam and he's called a hero.
Let's see 4 months of decorated combat leadership compared to a military deserter and coward who would not even fulfill his undeserved spot in a national guard unit? Yup, Kerry is the man for the job.
I seem to remember that Oliver North was awarded (5) Purple Hearts and only accepted (2) because he did not want to be discharged. He didn't want to leave his men or his command.
posted on November 1, 2004 02:06:27 PM new
USA Today.com 10-3-04
Troops in survey back Bush 4-to-1 over Kerry
By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY
An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel shows they support President Bush for re-election by a 4-to-1 ratio. Two-thirds of those responding said John Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam make them less likely to vote for him.
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And that's sure understandable since kerry sided with our enemies and worked with/for the pro-communist side.
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"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner Former Vietnam POW
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"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on November 1, 2004 02:50:17 PM new
aintrich
Because you and I are friends, I won't comment. One thing that friends should not discuss is politics. That rule goes for brothers and sisters as well.
Cheryl
Protect the environment. Plant a tree and remove a Bush.
posted on November 1, 2004 03:59:32 PM new thank you Cheryl ... I totally agree with you that I don't think we should 'discuss' it when we do lunch. LOL ... yeah, Tom and my bumper sticker reads differently than your and Ken's ...
This post just echoed only some of my feelings going into THE election day, and I jumped into this roiling boiling area to post it (which you KNOW I don't do often!).
... I usually steer clear of politics debating.
As ALL of us old hippies know (on both sides), "power to the people" will show itself, this week, here in the U.S. of A., no matter the outcome.
And whoever wins, we're all in this together ... so God bless America!
edited to add: hmmmm... my aka is showing
still ... God bless America, and whoever we choose to lead our country for the next 4 years .... amen.
[ edited by estatesalestuff on Nov 1, 2004 04:04 PM ]
Sean Huze was once a true believer. The day after the Sept. 11 attacks, the actor walked into the nearest recruiter's office in Los Angeles and enlisted himself in the United States Marine Corps. Sixteen months later, he was headed for Iraq as part of the 2nd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, leaving behind his wife and young son.
....When you look back, how has this war changed you?
I can never be the man I was before I left for Iraq. I had a lot of faith. I was a true believer in the administration's justification for the war about the weapons of mass destruction and Iraq being an imminent threat. I believed in what we were doing when we were over there.
That belief I had in the administration allowed me to balance what I was seeing, what I was experiencing, what I was a part of. With all that death and destruction the deaths of soldiers and Iraqi civilians who were caught in the crossfire it helped that I believed that it was all for a greater good.
Coming home, at first it was about being back with my family y'know, the yellow ribbon around the tree, the flags, and the "Welcome Home" signs. For a few months, I couldn't allow myself to believe that it was all for a lie.
I know the real transition in me happened when my eyes were opened when I realized that there were no weapons of mass destruction. I realized that Saddam Hussein was not a threat to not just the United States but to any of the countries on his borders. That there was no tie to Sept. 11. And these were what I now believe were intentional misrepresentations and manipulation.
When you realize this, then you don't have anything to balance everything you've seen and been through. You're just stuck with it. And it hurts. You have to deal with what you've already been through the death and destruction that's haunting you. But now you're also dealing with a sense of betrayal that you'd trusted most. That's what I was left with what I'm still left with.
So in terms of change, I now don't have any faith in the policymakers of this administration. We all collectively as a nation allowed ourselves and I was part of that to fall for this "You're either with us or against us" and therefore "You're either a patriot or with the terrorists" thinking. And if those are the only two choices, then of course I'm a patriot.
So one of the things that has changed for the positive is that it helped me realize that true patriotism is questioning our leaders. That's what our country is founded on. That's what men like me put our lives on the line to defend. So protesting the war does not equate with protesting those of us in uniform. It's not unpatriotic to want to get our guys home from the war zone.
What are your hopes and fears now that you look at the future?
My immediate hope is a change of leadership right here in this country. I think regime change in the United States of America is the most important and critical regime change needed in the world right now.
I think there are two clear alternatives in this election. New leadership can show the compassion and understanding that would bring our European allies who have always supported the U.S. in the past back to the table. It could talk to the Arab countries and [laughs] maybe even take their culture and their ideas into account in our policy on the Middle East. And that's what we need to remove the American face from the occupation and turn it into an international effort to rebuild Iraq.
My fear is obviously the opposite that for whatever reason, a majority of Americans haven't seen the truth yet or refuse to look at the truth. So this administration will not just be in power for four years, but that it will be four years when they are not accountable for their actions because we don't get a chance to vote them out of office.
My fear is that the war will escalate and so will the human toll both for our soldiers and Iraqi civilians. I fear that it will become my son's problem. That the next generation of Americans will be paying the price for the mistakes we make today. That 15-16 years from now, they will reap what we sow today.
If you had five minutes with the president whomever it may be on Nov. 3, George Bush or John Kerry what would you say to him?
It would probably be very different in each case. I would like the opportunity to look in the face of the person who has sent me and hundreds of thousands of other soldiers in harm's way for reasons that have now been proven false. I would like to look him in the eye and see if he would admit his mistakes. I'd ask him how he planned to rectify those mistakes. I'd like to see how he can justify his actions to the families of those soldiers who didn't come home.
Should it be a new commander in chief, I would take the opportunity to remind him how hard people have worked to put him in this position. I would beseech him to change the course in Iraq. We need to get our young men and women home. But we also need to fulfill our obligation to the people of Iraq to leave them with a country that is in better shape than when we came in.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on November 1, 2004 06:25:00 PM new
Aintrich
I admire your bravery, indeed I do!
Okay, listen up everybody - Aintrich is a nice lady that we just ain't gonna pick on. Do you hear? She's an RT virgin (betcha never thought you'd get that back again, did ya Ain't? LOL) and she's my personal friend.
Don't worry, you'll all have plenty of time to christen her. Say, November 3rd?
Just when you thought you were safe, Aintrich. . . LOL!
Cheryl
Protect the environment. Plant a tree and remove a Bush.
posted on November 1, 2004 06:34:27 PM new
Sorry, Cheryl...anyone who thinks like aintrichyet is not too bright.
ONE marine's opinion and ill-informed and not very bright at that.
John Kerry actually DID lead men in combat unlike this donkey's hero bush who hid under his bed during the Vietnam war.
Ya, I guess the neonazicons are happy Iraqi civilians and American soldiers are being slaughtered somewhere else....out of sight, out of mind!
The attack on 9/11 was carried out and in it's final stages while BUSH was in office but really on vacation 46% of the time and refused to read his daily briefings about terrorists.
What Oliver North has to do with any of this is beyond comprehension.
Troops in survey back Bush 4-to-1 over Kerry
By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY
An unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel shows they support President Bush for re-election by a 4-to-1 ratio. Two-thirds of those responding said John Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam make them less likely to vote for him.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on November 1, 2004 06:55:16 PM new
Oh sigh....... I always need a good dramatic sighhhhhhh, don't you linduh......probably the only time you get in any heavy breathing....speaking of which how is the emperor of neocon talk show hosts , your friend and sick two-faced liar Bill O'Riley??
I spose like the rest of the junior nazi's you'll still believe every word he says....sighhhhhhh....
posted on November 1, 2004 09:30:12 PM newAn unscientific survey of U.S. military personnel shows they support President Bush for re-election by a 4-to-1 ratio. Two-thirds of those responding said John Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam make them less likely to vote for him.
I'll bet the numbers in the military aren't much different than in the general population.
Anyone in the military knows to get along and go along with the command if they know what's good for them.
posted on November 2, 2004 07:37:40 AM new
NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq -- As Americans head to the polls, U.S. Marines squaring off against Iraqi insurgents say they expect trouble in Iraq for years no matter who wins the White House. What they want is better equipment, more pay and a clear exit strategy from their next commander in chief.
Many Marines fighting in Iraq's Sunni Triangle don't talk much about the race between President Bush and Sen. John Kerry. For them, the focus is on staying alive and following orders that they don't expect to change: Defeat the insurgency and help rebuild Iraq.
But what really concerns them is the prospect of an open-ended mission lacking a final benchmark for victory.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 2, 2004 08:01:55 AM new
He is brought back to mind by some e-mails I received about a recent column. In it, I put the number of U.S. casualties in Iraq at 9,100. A dozen or more people asked if that was a typo. Only 1,100 Americans have been killed in Iraq, they said.
The confusion was easy to clear up: A "casualty" is defined as any combat-related death or "injury." But I got the sense that explanation caught at least some people off guard. They seemed ... unused to the idea of considering the wounded when we total the cost of war.
I'm not saying people don't care. Rather, I suspect, people don't understand, maybe find it emotionally easier not to understand, what "wounded" means. So you see the death count and you drop your head, but you see the injury count and you say, "Thank God, they were only wounded."
I'm as guilty as anyone. Maybe it's a legacy of too many action movies where the hero takes a bullet in the shoulder and shrugs it off. It's just a scratch, he says. "I'm only wounded."
Wounded is nothing, or so we seem to subconsciously believe. But of 8,150 U.S. personnel wounded in Iraq at the time of this writing, 4,361 were too badly hurt to return to duty.
So it's more than nothing.
And what happens to them afterward? ABC News offered an appalling glimpse in a report two weeks ago. A critically injured soldier spoke of being sent a collection notice from the Pentagon while he was recuperating at a military hospital. The Pentagon was demanding the return of a $2,700 bonus because the soldier--who now lives in his car--could not fulfill his three-year tour of duty. A National Guardsman with a leg injury said he'll have to sell his home to pay his bills. A double amputee complained of getting the runaround from the Pentagon while financial ruin closed in like the shadows of twilight.
For at least some soldiers, this is what "wounded" means.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 2, 2004 12:46:49 PM new
I don't read certain posters posts, like the preceding two, because I have no need to be exposed to another's vituperative vileness when there is no content.
Cheryl is right as to the bitter tirades people are subjected to here, in the RT. Perhaps she should re-examine the style of people she considers friends. IMHO.
posted on November 2, 2004 12:55:32 PM new
You are currently ignoring posts from parklane64. Click here to view them.
The feeling is mutaul Why bother reading post by some right winged religious bigot posting in the name of God.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 2, 2004 01:00:03 PM new
Isn't it funny, pathetic and really stupid how pricklame just HAS to point out how he's ignoring other posters?????
posted on November 2, 2004 02:13:55 PM new
4 decades of imperial hubris
Posted: November 2, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern
In most of the wars we've fought, our leaders have understood our enemies and how to take them down. But in the current shootout a continuation of the revolutionary fervor first ignited in Algeria in the 1960s, then fanned by the Iranian Revolution, a huge jihad victory against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Israel's humiliating withdrawal from Lebanon and its interminable fight in Palestine culminating in 9-11 and our retaliatory invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq America's leaders from both major parties and our military and intelligence establishments remain in deep denial and blindly continue to believe that because we've got the power, we shall overcome.
Ditto a large chunk of the American public that has sent me gigabytes of e-mail about how we should do a Goldwater on the bad guys and "bomb them back to the Stone Age" when that's where most of our 1.3 billion potential Islamic opponents already are. If ignorance is bliss, America might have cornered the market on happiness.
But unless we get real and bend our brains around what motivates our enemy, we will never prevail against the increasing millions of polarized Muslims who are becoming more united with every explosion of smart bombs and every Yankee occupation boot stumping across their turf.
It's a commonly held belief among Muslims that the United States is grabbing their land in order to destroy their faith and their ancient way of life. Most believe that our unconditional support of repressive Muslim regimes in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan and other "friendly" Arab lands is all about keeping the people in chains and sucking up their oil on the cheap at a price that Joe and Jane Doe can pay at the U.S. pump without stroking out.
"Bin Laden has been precise in telling America the reasons he is waging war on us," writes "Anonymous," the author of "Imperial Hubris," a critically important book that defines Osama and what's driving his bombers. And the reasons don't "have anything to do with our freedom, liberty and democracy, but have everything to do with U.S. policies and actions in the Muslim world."
A rationale that bin Laden dressed in white robes topped by a golden cloak repeated for our edification last week on global television. Both presidential candidates came back with canned sound bites, choosing to respond only to the medium, not the inconvenient message.
The author of "Imperial Hubris" is a CIA intelligence analyst who's spent almost two decades "focused exclusively on terrorism, Islamic insurgencies and the state of affairs of South Asia Afghanistan and Pakistan." He is our top intelligence gun on Osama bin Laden, al-Qaida and the "dangers they pose and symbolize for the United States."
"The war bin Laden is waging has everything to do with the tenants of the Islamic religion. He could not have his current and increasing level of success if Muslims did not believe their faith, brethren, resources and lands to be under attack by the United States and, more generally, the West."
Years after the fall of Tehran and almost 38 months after 9-11, our leaders still don't recognize the scope of the bin Laden threat and keep repeating the same mistakes so often that many of the folks we're fighting are convinced we're crazy.
As the author of "Imperial Hubris" puts it, "We have not yet begun to fight the kind of war needed to defeat the forces he [bin Laden] leads and inspires."
Our Islamic enemy might not have the capability for a Stalingrad or Saigon, but according to the terrorist beheader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, our soldiers in Iraq are "easy and mouthwatering targets."
History is peppered with examples of a numerically inferior insurgent opponent destroying a Goliath. Especially a Goliath who obviously learned nothing from the Vietnam experience.
Israeli historian Martin van Creveld, one of the world's top insurgency experts, says: "If you are strong, and you are fighting the weak ... [t]he problem is that you cannot prove yourself against someone who is much weaker than yourself the Israeli forces have not yet lost, but they are, as far as I can see, well on their way to losing."
We have mindlessly waded into the same minefield and are getting clobbered daily. And we will never win over an enemy we refuse to understand.
Col. David H. Hackworth, author of his new best-selling "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or reported as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen wars and conflicts from the end of World War II to the recent fights against international terrorism.
