posted on November 4, 2004 11:28:00 AM new
CLEVELAND - After another dismal election, in which they lost the presidential race and seats in Congress, Democrats are seeking direction.
In search of a winning political message and messenger, the party is bracing for internal bitterness as beleaguered leaders try to figure out how to remodel their agenda. And one of the leaders will be missing next year: Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, who was defeated in South Dakota.
The party also faces a struggle for relevancy.
Despite conciliatory remarks Wednesday by President Bush and leaders from both parties, hard-charging Republicans asserted that voters gave them a governing mandate Tuesday, even as Democrats vowed to hold fast to their positions on issues such as Social Security and health care.
Democrats had been confident that voters shared their concerns about management of the war in Iraq and an anemic economy, especially in pivotal election states.
Perhaps, but voters had other priorities as well.
In Ohio, the state that decided the election, the 200,000 jobs lost during Bush's first term did not prove to be the deciding factor. Nor did the war.
Social values mattered more, according to exit polls.
As they cast ballots for president, voters in Ohio and 10 other states approved state constitutional amendments that limited marriage to a man and a woman.
Bush and Democratic challenger Sen. John Kerry agreed with that concept of marriage, but Bush favored a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and Kerry did not.
In the end, Bush won by rallying the party's conservative base while winning over rural voters, married people, Catholics and other groups.
"Democrats have gone so far to the left, they have no ability to see America as we see it," said Rep. Tom Reynolds of New York, head of the National Republican Congressional Committee.
In contrast, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California contended the Democrats' coming self-examination "is not about soul-searching."
"It may be about how we can educate the American people more clearly on the difference between Democrats and Republicans," she said. "But we know what the soul of the Democratic Party is, and it's about prosperity and community and opportunity and fairness."
Color it red.
Tuesday's election map was colored a solid Republican red across the South and noncoastal Western states, giving Bush the largest-ever popular vote total in a presidential election, more than 59 million.
The GOP snatched all five of the Democrats' Southern Senate seats that were vacated by retirement, as well as Daschle's seat. Democrats won Senate seats vacated by Republicans in Colorado and Illinois.
After strengthening their Senate majority, Republicans effectively dared Democrats to block Bush's agenda or his judicial nominations.
"Are Democrats going to block the presidential nominations, given the fact that, at least in my opinion, Tom Daschle paid the ultimate political price for obstructionism?" asked Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas.
Daschle has said Senate Democrats blocked only the judicial nominees who were ideologically extreme.
Redistricting pays off.
In the House, the Texas redistricting orchestrated by Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Sugar Land proved to be the key to Republicans tightening their grip. Five of the six white, moderate Democratic incumbents affected by the remapping lost their seats as a result.
"Texas was our Achilles' heel at the end of the day," said Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Robert Matsui of California.
The last time a GOP majority increased House seats in a presidential election year was 1928.
For Democrats, the pain of election loss has become familiar in recent years.
In 2002, they lost their tenuous hold on the Senate. Four years ago, Al Gore lost to Bush after a U.S. Supreme Court decision.
The party has not controlled the House since 1994.
Some Democrats may fault Kerry's personality traits or the missteps of his campaign.
"There's going to be a furious debate inside the Democratic Party, and maybe it will be furious because of how close the election was and how tense the nation was," said John C. Green, a political scientist at the University of Akron in Ohio.
But Al From, founder of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, which served as President Clinton's policy bank, said "finger-pointing" at Kerry would be unfair because party shortcomings preceded his candidacy.
"We have to look hard at how we can compete everywhere in the country," From said. "Unless we can make people feel more comfortable with us on some of the cultural issues and security ... we are not going to win just on economic issues where they agree with us."
The party has struggled to copy Clinton's ability to motivate its liberal base while reaching out to the middle with moderate policies such as welfare reform.
"We have to present a reasonable image. We cannot go to the left even though the Republicans have gone to the right in the House," said Rep. Gene Green, D-Houston.
New leaders
In time, new national leaders will emerge. Nevada Sen. Harry Reid is expected to replace Daschle as Senate Democratic leader.
The list of future presidential candidates includes moderate Gov. Mark Warner of Virginia and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. This year's vice-presidential candidate, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, signaled in his concession speech Wednesday that he is not done.
"You can be disappointed, but you cannot walk away," he told campaign backers. "This fight has just begun."
{B}Americans again prove Pres Bush is the best man for the job[/b]
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on November 5, 2004 09:59:28 AM new
I've also heard dems talking about how their party is going to have to 'redefine' & make some serious decisions about why the people aren't 'buying' their platform, IF they ever want to regain the WH, the House and/or the Senate.
Meanwhile we've got two years to straighten out a couple of things and if we can do that....I think we'll see even more seats going to the Republicans come 2006.
People have had enough hardcore 'liberalism' pushed down their throats.
posted on November 5, 2004 11:42:28 AM new
I've been reading comments from other boards and this one sums up the general concensus of opinion on the cause of Kerry's loss. It's a very simplified answer of course but actually, there is some truth here. Apparently, two religious based issues have led to the election.of George Bush.
<Begin quote>
The rotten borough (so-called 'heartland') has spoken. Between deficits, national security, the draft, jobs, and healthcare, they decided the most important issue was...
...
...
Assfucking.
Yes. That's what it's all about. Never mind if you don't have a job and your kids don't have health care and are on the verge of being shipped off to some Middle East hellhole with a shoddy Halliburton gun and no body armor. The MOST IMPORTANT issue is that two men, somewhere, might be assfucking.
I'm of three minds on all this. Mind #1 says "they made their bed, let them lie in it, I'm getting the hell out to Canada or the UK". Mind #2 says "ok, this Jesus stuff really plays, let's get someone who says Jesus every other sentence and says that God told him to institute national health care". Mind #3 says "the problem is Kerry wasn't ECONOMICALLY liberal enough... if he had stopped listening to idiots like Brad Delong, maybe he could have promised to actually DO SOMETHING about the obscene offshoring and won Ohio... if he hadn't listened to the conventional wisdom and had actually promised free health care for all, maybe that would have convinced the heartland... maybe we need a 10-point economic Covenant with America..."
What do you think about all this #*!@? (no trolls please)
posted on November 5, 2004 11:52:46 AM new
My thoughts exactly Helen. The so called religious right was more concerned about what two people may or may not do in the privacy of their own homes, than they were about the economy, jobs or healthcare, not to mention the Iraq War.
I am just waiting for the backlash to begin on all this issue of "religion" and "moral values". If the Republican keep throwing their moral values down peoples throat there will be a backlash.
What did Jesus say....judge least you be judged.
I don't understand how a group of "faggots" can strike so much FEAR into Bush and the Republican party. They must think that every gay guy is trying to come onto them.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 5, 2004 11:54:26 AM new
::Social values mattered more, according to exit polls. ::
Those would not happen to be the same exit polls that led everyone to believe that Kerry was running the board in the swing states would they?
I think the one that that was made overwhelming clear after this election (or was it the one two years ago that were completely off, of the ones 4 yeatrs ago....) is that exit polls have no value anymore. You can't say that the responses to questions 1-3 are completely off but 4-10 are accurate.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 5, 2004 01:56:14 PM new
More BS from the losing left. The American people had a choice and made it. They proved they believe in Pres Bush more than they believed in the "flip flopping, I'll say whatever you want me to say" kerry.
And the only reason dad agrees is, yes you read right. Americans again prove Pres Bush is the best man for the job
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing
to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
--John Stuart Mill
posted on November 5, 2004 02:20:46 PM new
Come on Bear - lets address the actual point. The exit polls were useless on election night. They held fatal flaws which were evidenced by the fact that they gave Kerry large leads in Florida and Ohio. With that in mind, why is it that three days later you think they are suddenly valid and indictive of reality?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 5, 2004 04:37:35 PM newAssfucking
Now we know why Kerry flip flopped so much. He must have been with Clinton all along. With all of the places that thing was, how could he not flop around like a fish on the shore.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
[ edited by stonecold613 on Nov 5, 2004 04:38 PM ]
posted on November 9, 2004 02:22:34 PM new
I think the Bush voters didn't adhere to the exit polls. I know I wouldn't tell them who I voted for as it is none of their business. I probably would have said Kerry. Maybe that is what happened. Voting should be private.
Logansdad said "What did Jesus say....judge least you be judged" Evidently he did have a christian upbringing at one time if quotes from the bible.
posted on November 10, 2004 12:37:36 PM new
Libra: Logansdad said "What did Jesus say....judge least you be judged" Evidently he did have a christian upbringing at one time if quotes from the bible.
Believe it or not, but I still have a Christian upbringing and I consider myself a Catholic.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 10, 2004 12:41:51 PM new
Classic, seems as if you know what gets me excited these days. You must have lots of experience turning guys on. Please tell everyone what else you have done to guys that gets them all excited. Are you better at getting guys excited than you are getting your wife excited?
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 10, 2004 04:24:29 PM new
When religious doctrine becomes national policy this country will no longer be a democracy but a theocracy. There is a reason for separation of church and state otherwise we'd be no different than the middle east.
posted on November 10, 2004 04:46:32 PM newClinton to Dems: Don't whine, work on image Ex-president says Democrats "need a clear national message"
MSNBC
The Associated Press
NEW YORK -
Former President Clinton has a message for Democrats inconsolable after President Bush's re-election: Buck up. It's not that bad. You need to improve your image.
"This election presents a great opportunity for President Bush and a great opportunity for Democrats, and the two are not necessarily in conflict," Clinton said in his first public remarks since Democratic Sen. John Kerry's defeat on Tuesday.
The last two-term Democratic president said the party needs to rework its image and it would be a "mistake for our party to sit around and...whine about this and that or the other thing."
........
In his speech Friday to the Urban Land Institute, Clinton attributed Kerry's loss to the Democrats' failure to counter how Republicans portrayed them to rural and small-town voters.
"If we let people believe that our party doesn't believe in faith and family, doesn't believe in work and freedom, that's our fault," he said.
In search of a message
Democrats "need a clear national message and they have to do this without one big advantage the Republicans have, which is they won't have a theological message that basically paints the other guy as evil."
Clinton gave Bush and the Republicans credit for the election victory.
"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy," he said. "The Republicans did a better job of turning out those who were already registered who hadn't voted" as well as bringing out their base.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Nov 10, 2004 04:49 PM ]
posted on November 10, 2004 05:30:19 PM new
"Classic, seems as if you know what gets me excited these days. You must have lots of experience turning guys on. Please tell everyone what else you have done to guys that gets them all excited. Are you better at getting guys excited than you are getting your wife excited"
well logansdad yes I do have lots of expierence turning guys on.I was in the Navy in the mid-sixties and they didnt call us "seaman" for nothing<snicker> When I got back from Vietnam in 1966,I was stationed in Alameda,Ca.I had this taylor made Gaberdine Navy uniform made.It had dragons on the collars and on the flap of the pullover Jersey.It also had a zipper on the side-this was quite cool.This uniform fit like a glove-there was no extra room anywhere if you know what I mean.I also have a great looking ass,and I can say that because every girl I ever went with told me that.In fact one girl told me it was the best part of me.Im not actually sure what she meant by that...so having this great assest along with wearing a skin tight Navy uniform, going into San Fransisco on liberty was not a very good choice.I believe every fag in town try to pick me up-I use the term fag,as that is what we called them back then.Gay was not in vogue back then and Im not sure why they call homosexuals "gay" the term "gay" is supposed to mean "happy" and quite frankly if I were ever thrown in jail and "big bubba" wanted to make me his love machine and poke me up the ass, I dont think Id be all that "happy" about it. So everytime I went on liberty I would have to contend with this harrassment.It got so bad I had to buy "civilian" clothes so they would leave me alone. So to answer your question yes, I had expierence turning guys on..but I wasnt all that thrilled about it.If ya wanna see what I look like in my Navy uniform look in the Ebay outlook postings.I posted my Navy picture over there a couple of months ago.Unforunately I forgot the name of the post.I was trying to learn how to post pics here and that was the one I decided to use.
To answer your second question..I guess Im better at getting my wife excited as I havent had an offer from a guy since I left San Fran 1966.
posted on November 10, 2004 05:39:26 PM newI guess Im better at getting my wife excited as I haven't had an offer from a guy since I left San Fran 1966..
Sounds like you are disappointed. It is probably because you are without your uniform or could it have been the city you were in.
I bet if you were not wearing your Navy uniform you would not have been hit on.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
----------------------------------
"Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
[ edited by logansdad on Nov 10, 2004 07:08 PM ]
posted on November 10, 2004 06:14:18 PM new
Linduh, we knew someday you'd come around to siding with Slick Willie! Is he your hero now? Good, you just keep listening to Uncle Bill and some day you will be saved!
posted on November 10, 2004 07:49:21 PM new
"Sounds like you are disappointed"
LOL not really
You are exactly correct about the uniform.Thats why I had to buy civilian clothes,so I wouldnt get hit on.But I think anyone looks better in uniform,not just military but airline stewardess's,police etc.
I think its attractive to people because as corny as it sounds in this day and age,they look a lot neater.
posted on November 10, 2004 08:27:03 PM new
I was at a stop sign today and there was an old junky Plymouth mini van in front of me. It had bungee cord holding the back bumper up. I could almost see the many Bush related bumper stickers through the smoke coming from the tailpipe.
One of them said, "Don't laugh at my car, my reward is in heaven". Next to that was a graphic that indicated, Marriage = one man + one woman. Looks like they have their priorities correct. A junky old van worth about $400.00 to an idiot buyer, and a their noses stuck in others business.
posted on November 10, 2004 08:35:26 PM new
It's as bas a the woman who wrote the local paper saying that George Bush can't run the economy by himself. She indicated that nobody can do it alone. Bush will needs god's help in running the country. She went on to say that those people who are "with god" will prosper. I guess that means that the people who are unemployed and without any extensions in their benefits are horrible sinners. I guess that means that people in states with high job losses are horrible sinners that are going to hell. Another religious nut case rear their head.
posted on November 10, 2004 08:54:42 PM new
Michigan voting on the Proposal 2 Define Marriage
5806 of 5806 precincts - 100 percent
x- Yes 2,690,819 - 59 percent
No 1,900,578 - 41 percent
Hmmmm looks as if MI knows right from wrong after all...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
