posted on February 19, 2005 05:27:06 AM new
Ok, the Republicans want the parents Social Security to go to the children when the parents die. Then they say they think privatizing is a good thing because people should be self-reliant.
This is another Republican oxy-MORON.
How can you be self-reliant if you need/want to inherit money from your parents?
posted on February 19, 2005 06:08:04 AM new
As it stands now...
1) The money you pay into Social Security is YOUR money.
2) If you pay into SS for 45+ years and die the day before retirement, all that money goes to the government forever. YOUR children get none of YOUR money. The government gets to keep it all.
How is that not like a cheap insurance scam?
And anyway, the new privatized SS isn't the same as SS. It's more like a "forced" IRA. I have an IRA and thinks it's great, Why is this bad? Simply cause you hate Bush?
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Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web! http://www.replaymedia.com
posted on February 19, 2005 06:53:21 AM new
Replay,
What do you suggest should be done with all those people that pay into SS, use up what they have contributed and then have nothing left to live on? What happens if these people do not have friends or family to take care of them?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
posted on February 19, 2005 07:07:37 AM new
""""""2) If you pay into SS for 45+ years and die the day before retirement, all that money goes to the government forever. YOUR children get none of YOUR money. The government gets to keep it all."""""
Haha The same thing holds true for bush's scheme....but the repugs are too dumb to realize it.
posted on February 19, 2005 08:33:29 AM new
"What do you suggest should be done with all those people that pay into SS, use up what they have contributed and then have nothing left to live on?"
My understanding is that there will always be a certain minimum guaranteed "SS" amount you can count on. If you spend all your money, you go on a scaled-down version of the plan we have right now.
"The same thing holds true for bush's scheme....but the repugs are too dumb to realize it"
Apparently I *AM* too dumb to see it. Explain to me how if I die, my family doesn't get my IRA money? This new plan is essentially the same as an IRA.
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Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web! http://www.replaymedia.com
posted on February 19, 2005 09:16:59 AM newMy understanding is that there will always be a certain minimum guaranteed "SS" amount you can count on. If you spend all your money, you go on a scaled-down version of the plan we have right now.
Then how is that any different then what we have now? Why go through all the expense of setting up the individual accounts when the government will end up being the one that supports those that do not have the means.
If you think that you will be able to pass along the un-used benefits to your family, you better read this, because Bush is not giving you the entire truth.
I think there are some here that are trying to turn social security into a combination investment plan/estate. That was not how the system was designed. Even if you pass along your un-used portion how are we going to pay for those that have exceeded their contribution. The money will have to come from somewhere.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
posted on February 19, 2005 09:23:46 AM newbecause people should be self-reliant.
I just love this statement. People should be self-reliant. How many of the people that say this go to the store to buy groceries? How many of these people buy their own health insurance? How many of these people have electricity and gas in their home? How many people go to the gas station to buy gas for their car? How many people call the police or the fire department when their house is on fire?
If people were completely self-reliant you would grow and cook your own food, you would heat your house with fire, you would use candles for lighting, you would not health insurance through your employer, you would be riding around on horse and buggy or walk to where you want to go. In today's society you can not be self reliant. You can try but I think you will never be completely self reliant. The Amish are a good example of this.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- Bush will fix Social Security just like he has fixed Osama Bin Laden and Iraq. Bush can't be trusted to run this country and you want to trust him with your retirement?
posted on February 19, 2005 10:31:45 AM new
Gotta love how there WAS a SS crisis during the clinton administration....that now has suddenly totally disappeared...so say the lefties here.
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And I notice no one answered replay's question about leaving their SS funds to their heirs. They can't.
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Again, it's just the left wanting to keep people from making their own choices. None so far have stated they believe in choice on this issue.
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If people were completely self-reliant....
Good laugh....another 'twisting' of something said. But, of course, NO ONE said ANYTHING about being completely self-reliant.....but they falsely twist it to appear they did.
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And yes, part of what has ALREADY been said is that NO ONE has suggested a 'plan' that does not have a 'protection' in it. But hey....reality is NOT their best suit. And one can see that by the false MoveOn.org ad the left has put out to try and SCARE people away from supporting giving people the CHOICE of privatization....or choosing to stay with the system as it currently is.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
Republicans encourage self-reliance.
Democrats encourage government dependence. That way they OWN your vote.
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 19, 2005 11:21 AM ]
posted on February 19, 2005 04:28:46 PM new
The real crisis is not SS its the Health Care programs for the elderly and poor. Get informed look at Medicaid and Medicare. Of course neither of those programs are any good for business or Wall Street. Nor is much being done about the price of drugs and health insurance either. The above programs only help the American people they don't help business or the Stock Market.
I realize that law suites make up about 2% of the total business cost to the drug and health insurance companies. Do you guys and gals think with this new White House law about class action law suites, I will get a 2% deduction in my drugs and health insurance cost?
HEY MIDDLE CLASS AMERICA YOU NEED TO PAY REAL CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT THIS WHITE HOUSE IS DOING.
posted on February 19, 2005 04:35:58 PM new
I asked , "If there is a crisis in SS WHY didn't we hear about it from bush BEFORE the election ??????????? "
And bigpeepa gave an answer...
"""The real crisis is not SS its the Health Care programs for the elderly and poor. Get informed look at Medicaid and Medicare. Of course neither of those programs are any good for business or Wall Street. Nor is much being done about the price of drugs and health insurance either. The above programs only help the American people they don't help business or the Stock Market."""
posted on February 19, 2005 04:56:31 PM new
There goes Linda K again, she has no answers to logan. So she lives in the past and brings up Clinton. Linda K you really do need to get a life and get current we are all living under the Bush White House. Its the Bush White House we are all watching and exposing their and your smoke screens and deceit. Linda K just posted this comment "the left wanting to keep people from making their own choices." some nerve she has saying that being a Bush republican. Linda K, statements like that and your Bush POM POM waving is becoming less relevant every day. My Dad always said if you give people like you all the rope they want your kind of people always wind up hanging themselves.
posted on February 19, 2005 06:28:18 PM new
bigpeepa - You're once again babbling on and on. This thread was about self-reliance....not MEDICARE nor MEDICAID.
Had we been addressing those two subjects....I would have mentioned that I think the Medicare drug program, passed in 2003, is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE at a projected cost of $724 BILLION dollars. And you're complaining Bush is doing nothing to help with health care? What a laugh and once again shows just how mis-informed you really are.
And if you'd ever listen to or read any articles you would already know that this President has said once he deals with the SS issue he will be do more on making changes in the Medicaid program. Just look at his 2006 budget proposals....and you will see he not only wants to reform the program but has requested MORE funding to do so.
Because logan posts a link...that answers HIS OWN question...and the fact is he can't read his own link...isn't my problem.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 19, 2005 06:31 PM ]
posted on February 19, 2005 06:35:01 PM new
YOU can't answer the question,
If Republicans believe in self-reliance why do they need mommy and daddy's SS money after they die ?
If there is a crisis in SS WHY didn't we hear about it from bush BEFORE the election ???????????
Why is SS all of a sudden important....to take everyone's mind off the slaughter in Iraq ? off the economy? off the "buying journalists and reporters" scandal? off the billions of taxpayer's money "lost in Iraq?
linDUH said, "bigpeepa - You're once again babbling on and on. This thread was about self-reliance....not MEDICARE nor MEDICAID."
First, since you can't read, Bigpeepa was answering MY question.
Second, you are having a hard time answering the TOPIC question even though you seem to know what the topic,s about.
posted on February 19, 2005 08:27:13 PM new
Crowfarm is correct.
The SS crisis is bogus a red herring to keep everyone occupied while Bush tries to sneak a bunch of rejected judicial nominees through the confirmation process.
The youth at risk program is designed through faith based outreach programs to supply the military with cannon fodder.
Social Security is among other things an insurance program. A safety net. All privatising it will do is to allow Bush's cronies to have at your money ala Enron.
Class action suits have been neutered,
civil liberties are under attack,
Unions..under attack
Enviornment...under attack
Healthcare costs escalating
Fuel and energy sky high
The dollar against most major currencies in the toilet
posted on February 19, 2005 08:29:59 PM new
If my SS went to my step-kids when I die I would be very happy,at least they would have something. Unfortunately a lot of these younger people have problems just paying their bills so how are they going to save any money?
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Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on February 19, 2005 08:35:56 PM new
MAH - My answer to that is this program won't be costing them anymore than it already is. If they are working...these funds are already being collected from their paychecks. This will only give them the opportunity to earn a higher rate of return on that same money...in 30-45 years from now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 19, 2005 09:07:17 PM new
I just love how some say all-of-a-sudden 'there is no SS crisis'.
Saying so doesn't make it the truth. But then...this reminds me of all those who believed clinton when he said Iraq had womd....but then when President Bush gets elected he's somehow lying about the same weapons.
Now President Bush is lying again....and I'm sure they don't think clinton was when he also felt the same way about SS.
The logic of the lefties makes absolutely NO sense most of the time.
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President Bill Clinton On Social Security Crisis
PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON ON
SOCIAL SECURITY CRISIS
Democrat Leaders Ignore Crisis President Clinton Was Aware Of In 1990s
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Liberal Democrats may deny the fact that Social Security lacks the resources needed to pay benefits to younger works, but Bill Clinton's comments show he realized years ago that the system faces a crisis, which 90 percent of Americans agree with today.
Clinton also understood that the problem must be solved before it is too late, but Democrats are more focused on partisan gain than preserving Social Security. Brian Jones, RNC Spokesperson
IN 1990s, PRESIDENT CLINTON RECOGNIZED THERE WAS A CRISIS IN SOCIAL SECURITY
President Clinton: This Fiscal Crisis In Social Security Affects Every Generation. (President Bill Clinton, Remarks At Georgetown University On Social Security, Washington, DC, 2/9/98)
President Clinton: First, And Above All, We Must Save Social Security For The 21st Century. (President Bill Clinton, State Of The Union, 1/19/99)
President Clinton: So That All Of These Achievements - The Economic Achievements Our Increasing Social Coherence And Cohesion, Our Increasing Efforts To Reduce Poverty Among Our Youngest Children All Of Them Are Threatened By The Looming Fiscal Crisis In Social Security. (President Bill Clinton, Remarks At Georgetown University On Social Security, Washington, DC, 2/9/98)
President Clinton: Now Is The Time To Strengthen Social Security For The Future. We Can And Must Accomplish This Critical Goal For The American People. (The White House, Presidential Statement On Social Security, Press Release, 4/23/99)
President Clinton: But Because A Higher Percentage Of Our People Will Be Both Older And Retired, Perhaps Our Greatest Opportunity And Our Greatest Obligation At This Moment Is To Save Social Security. (President Bill Clinton, Remarks To A National Forum On Social Security, Kansas City, MO, 4/7/98)
President Clinton: If You Don't Do Anything, One Of Two Things Will Happen. Either It Will Go Broke And You Won't Ever Get It, Or If We Wait Too Long To Fix It, The Burden On Society Of Taking Care Of Our Generation's Social Security Obligations Will Lower Your Income And Lower Your Ability To Take Care Of Your Children To A Degree That Most Of Us Who Are You Parents Think Would Be Horribly Wrong And Unfair To You And Unfair To The Future Prospects Of The United States. (President Bill Clinton, Remarks At Georgetown University On Social Security, Washington, DC, 2/9/98)
President Clinton: And Above All, To My Fellow Baby Boomers, Let Me Say That None Of Us Wants Our Own Retirement To Be A Burden To Our Children And To Their Efforts To Raise Our Grandchildren. It Would Be Unconscionable If We Failed To Act, And Act Now, As One Nation Renewing The Ties That Bind Us Across The Generations. (President Bill Clinton, Remarks To A National Forum On Social Security, Kansas City, MO, 4/7/98)
TODAY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THE SOCIAL SECURITY CRISIS DEMOCRATIC LEADERS IGNORE
The Latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll Shows 90% Of Americans Think The Social Security System Is Either In Crisis Or In Trouble. (NBC/Wall Street Journal Poll, 1,007 Adults, Conducted 1/13-17/05, Margin Of Error +/- 3.1%)
A Recent Gallup Poll, Showed That 71% Of Americans Believe Social Security Is In A "State Of Crisis" Or "Has Major Problems." (USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll, 1,008 Adults, Conducted 1/7-9/05, Margin Of Error +/- 3%)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
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