posted on September 26, 2006 06:36:25 PM new
Closing of a Nation
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: September 24, 2006
It’s an elementary principle of child psychology: safety leads to exploration. The child who feels securely loved at home will venture out and try new things. The child who is insecure will be more passive and cling to what is known.
What’s true of children is true of adults, and in Iraq we now have a case study in human insecurity. The people of Iraq have endured decades of dictatorship, war, insurgency and civil strife, and the psychological costs have been ruinous. Iraq is the most xenophobic, sexist and reactionary society on earth.
Researchers from the invaluable World Values Survey have interviewed over 2,300 adults from all over Iraq. The results have just been published by Ronald Inglehart, Mansoor Moaddel and Mark Tessler in the journal Perspectives on Politics.
Inglehart, Moaddel and Tessler describe a people who, buffeted by violence, have withdrawn into mere survival mode. They are suspicious of outsiders and intolerant toward weak groups, and they cling fiercely to what is familiar and traditional.
The researchers asked the Iraqis if they would mind living next door to foreigners. In most societies, there is a small minority who say they would mind. Nine percent of Americans say they would mind, and in the median country internationally about 16 percent say they would mind. Ninety percent of the Iraqi Arab respondents rejected foreigners as neighbors.
As Inglehart, Moaddel and Tessler write, Iraqis “reject foreigners to a degree that is virtually unknown in other societies throughout the world, including more than a dozen predominantly Islamic countries.”
Iraqi Arabs almost universally reject Americans, Britons and the French, and roughly 60 percent reject Iranians, Kuwaitis and Jordanians, the groups they are least hostile to.
Iraqis also viscerally resist social reform and deviation from the traditional ways of doing things. For example, 93 percent of Arab Iraqis said men made better leaders than women, the highest proportion of any group in the world.
Iraqi Arabs were asked which values they would like to instill in their children. They emphasized “obedience” and “religious faith” more than any of the 80 other societies that have been studied. They were less likely to try to instill “independence” in their children than people in 74 of the study’s 80 societies.
Meanwhile, Iraqis cling fiercely to their primal identities. Roughly 86 percent of the Arab Iraqis said they were very proud to be Iraqi, and the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds were very likely to trust members of their own community. Such in-group solidarity is almost without precedent.
Iraqi Kurds stood apart from the world in all these various measures, but Iraqi Arabs stood apart even more. This suggests that Saddam’s tyranny had already had a corrosive effect on Iraqi society by 1991, when the Kurds were effectively liberated, but over the past 15 years, things have become much worse. It’s impossible to tell how much of the trauma has been caused since the American invasion.
We do know, however, that American policy makers were surprised to learn how religious Iraqi society had become during the 1990’s. (Iraqi exiles had not prepared them for this.) And we also know this climate of opinion works against the Iraqi leaders as they try to create a functioning nation.
In essence, Iraqis are like turtles trying to pull into their shells, but the big tasks now require non-shell behavior. They require getting Shiites and Sunnis to trust each other enough to negotiate a settlement on sharing oil revenue. They require getting Shiite policemen to crack down on their own, and on Moktada al-Sadr’s Shiite militia.
The larger lesson, as we think about future efforts to reform the Middle East and combat extremism, is that the Chinese model probably works best. That is, it’s best to champion economic reform before political reform.
We know from a wealth of historical experience that when people see their standard of living rise, they reject the reactionary survival mentality and they become more open to others and to change. If people already see their lives improving materially, they will be more likely to keep their cool as their political institutions are reinvented.
In the age of terror, statesmanship means knowing how to create a sense of security so you can lead people on a voyage of reform. Most of all, it means that if you’re going to do nation-building, you have to understand the values of the people you’re going to build a nation with.
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posted on September 30, 2006 07:14:18 PM new
"Is Iraq Hopeless?"
Nope...it's sure not. That IS unless we vote the dem party into having control of our Congress next month.
Then all the 'treasure' we've lost....all the effort we've gone to....all the fighting against EVIL will have been for naught.
The dems are losers....defeatests...quitters...obstructionists....socialists...non-military supporters....supporters of our enemies.....and don't HAVE a plan. They THINK they're just going to win on BASHING anything that has been tried.
Imo, they won't. I don't think there are THAT many dumb American voters to give them power. IF they do....America is DOOMED.
While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation:
What would a Democrat president have done at that point? Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Ann Coulter
posted on October 1, 2006 08:44:34 AM new
Linda, you realize that you posted to 5 threads today.If you did that over at otwa,you would have been canned already
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
posted on October 2, 2006 05:47:54 AM new
Yes, classic and it's nice.
That's because HERE they don't suspend or ban anyone who hasn't broken the 'rules'.
At otwa...they ban posters because the snot-nosed, diaper-wearing babies go tattle to mommy and daddy...and that's ALL mommy and daddy need to ban anyone. Screw the fact that NO rules were being broken, except by the WHINERS/TATTLETAILS....the little liberal babies were just against free speech.
posted on October 2, 2006 05:50:38 AM new
DEFEAT Can't Be An Option - in Iraq.....no matter that the liberals want us to run away with our tails between our legs and let the terrorists win.
Vote democratic....soon you'll be forced to say your prayers 5 times a day...whether you want to or not.
Tragically, some Democrats seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Just last Wednesday, The Hill reported troubling remarks made by Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY), slated to become the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee if the Democrats retake control of Congress.
According to The Hill, Rangel alluded to the possibility of denying funding for the war in order to force an end to it â€" an objective that would, no doubt, be shared by the 73 Democratic members of the Out of Iraq caucus (which includes eight Democrats in line to chair committees and eight House appropriators).
In a floor statement delivered in October of 2005, Senator Patrick Leahy likewise referred to the war’s costs and obliquely threatened to withhold support for future funding.
What's most troubling about these statements is their historical parallel to America's defeat in Vietnam. It's worth pointing out that the United States was not losing the war when it withdrew the troops in 1973.
It was only two years later, when the Democratic-controlled Congress eliminated funding for South Vietnam that South was overrun by the Communists. As a result, the United States betrayed an ally and projected an image of weakness and irresolution to the world â€" an image that only encouraged various Soviet provocations in the years immediately following.
That outcome was bad enough â€" but at least the Soviets were rational actors who had no active objective of bringing about the deaths either of American citizens or of their own. In contrast, the Islamofascists we confront today court death, both for themselves and for every American.
Contrary to many Democrats’ stated beliefs, withdrawing from Iraq will not slow the growth of the terrorist threat â€" it will only invigorate and embolden the terrorists who have been recruited.
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While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation:
What would a Democrat president have done at that point? Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Ann Coulter
posted on October 2, 2006 03:37:41 PM newScrew the fact that NO rules were being broken, except by the WHINERS/TATTLETAILS....the little liberal babies were just against free speech.
It's not TATTLETAILS. It's Tattletales........ telling tales, not tails. Lindak, you should know that since you were one of the biggest snitches on this board, always threatening to report some of us.
And you're still whining about getting booted from over there? LOL
It's simple, respect another long-time board owner and his rules, don't expect him and other users to change just to accommodate you when you barge in so you can have a platform for your nonstop daily propaganda from rag sites. Face it, they didn’t fall for it no matter how much you bolded and copied and pasted and with all the lols and tsks you got so torqued up you were ready to blow. Whether you realize it or not, Jim and Crystal did you a big favor by booting your ass when they did.
posted on October 2, 2006 04:37:57 PM new
I wish Vendio would do the same. I'm so tired of the right wing propaganda. If I was looking to be brainwashed I'd go to Newsmax, Fox etc.
Why not go hang at the Revs Outhouse they like your kind of swill there.
posted on October 2, 2006 05:06:29 PM newthe little liberal babies were just against free speech.
Once again Linda is playing the role of the victim/martyr to a "T". Maybe she will get an Oscar for her performance.
I bet the ACLU or NAACP are just waiting to take up her case.
She should call her congressmen and propose a constitutional amendment. One that will guarantee her right to post on a message board. For sure that will bring morality back to this country.
Vote Republican if you want your civil rights and liberties eroded one at a time.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on October 2, 2006 05:37:19 PM new
"It's simple, respect another long-time board owner and his rules, don't expect him and other users to change just to accommodate you when you barge in so you can have a platform for your nonstop daily propaganda from rag sites."
"I wish Vendio would do the same. I'm so tired of the right wing propaganda"
Linda-these assholes sound like a broken record.When someone from the right speaks,its propaganda.When someone from the left speaks,its freedom of speech ROFLAMAO!!!!!
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
[ edited by classicrock000 on Oct 2, 2006 05:37 PM ]
posted on October 2, 2006 06:30:15 PM new
Onallfours says:
“I wish Vendio would do the same. I'm so tired of the right wing propaganda. If I was looking to be brainwashed I'd go to Newsmax, Fox etc.
Why not go hang at the Revs Outhouse they like your kind of swill there.”
Backdoorman says:
“Once again Linda is playing the role of the victim/martyr to a "T". Maybe she will get an Oscar for her performance.
I bet the ACLU or NAACP are just waiting to take up her case.
She should call her congressmen and propose a constitutional amendment. One that will guarantee her right to post on a message board. For sure that will bring morality back to this country.
Vote Republican if you want your civil rights and liberties eroded one at a time.’
onallfours answers:
"and when classicsss sspeakssss it'sss just sssheer sssstupidity.'
(last sentence is slightly modified by me.)
I can actually hear the lisps in their writing. Is it only me?
posted on October 3, 2006 12:49:05 AM new
What the regular 'clueless' ones don't understand is that I didn't BREAK any rules there. LOL
I know that's so hard for you to actually grasp....but even the board owner admitted he didn't want to take the time to actually READ what was being said....he was going strickly on the whining of the little liberals who are totally against FREE SPEECH.
And we see that here also. LOL Don't agree with what's being said....BAN IT. Screw free speech.
Yep....typical liberal mind set. They don't support our Constitution at all....oh they pretend to.....they SAY they do....but it's just a lie. Just like they LIE about 'supporting our troops'.
What a sad group of losers.
While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation:
What would a Democrat president have done at that point? Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Ann Coulter
posted on October 3, 2006 08:07:22 AM newbut even the board owner admitted he didn't want to take the time to actually READ what was being said
The board owner has a life and is running a business and couldn't possibly keep up with all that was written there, especially by you.
"WARNING: Continually disruptive users will find their access removed." is posted in plain view at tbe top of the page there.
You were given 30 days to tone down your non-stop posting and pasting but instead you ramped it up, insulted those in charge, were rude to most other posters, and then whined continuously about your followers being booted for foul language. Some trolled with numerous IDs and you were about the only one that got enjoyment from reading their dirty little sexually retarded phrases as you've always done here and you classified it as free speech and expected that it should be allowed there also by new users but it wasn't. When it came to intelligence and knowledge and comprehension you were out of your league. Perhaps you don't realize it but you were really losing it so finally they booted you before you snapped completely.
posted on October 3, 2006 08:14:50 AM new
Oh Ms. Clueless has spoken again. Speaking FOR the board owners...like she has a CLUE. Obviously she doesn't.
It's that the wacko liberals couldn't DEBATE/argue their political positions....so they made it personal....as liberals like kiara usually do....rather than discussing the topics. When they can't support their political positions...and they couldn't....this is what they always resort back to....name calling and tattling.
Nope....the board owner HIMSELF posted why....and it was ONLY because the whining liberals complained about me and he didn't WANT to take the time to noticed I hadn't done anything more than post to be banned.
THAT is the FACT.....kiara can remain in her little 'fantasy' pole dancing world where she truly belongs.
She's just ANOTHER busybody liberal who can't grasp the facts. No surprise there.
While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation:
What would a Democrat president have done at that point? Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Ann Coulter
posted on October 3, 2006 08:27:47 AM new
"Perhaps you don't realize it but you were really losing it so finally they booted you before you snapped completely."
Yea Kiara.........Im really sure they were
worried about Linda's welfare and completely snapping-ROFLMAO!!
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
[ edited by classicrock000 on Oct 3, 2006 08:28 AM ]
posted on October 3, 2006 08:29:12 AM new
They were long-time users. You barged in and disrupted their board and wouldn't follow the warnings so got your ass booted. You were out of control and out of your league. It's that simple. Time to move on and find a new platform for your Bush propaganda.
PS: I'm not a liberal and I'm not a pole dancer so take your fantasies and go play with them somewhere else.
posted on October 3, 2006 09:22:39 AM new
Linda: You really are a non-stop ranter. After a while, people who rattle on with repetitive content aren't listened to anymore. Take a look at some of your postings. If you could learn how to say what you want to say--and then stop--you could be much more effective. If people aren't open to your message, saying it a thousand times won't change their minds.
It does no good to tell others the same message over and over. Remember: "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten." And that, for you, is an audience that's tuned you out.
When I was on a city council and wanted a project pushed through but met with resistance, I backed away, sometimes for months, to figure out what the others didn't know about the project that could convince them to change their minds. I would *never* have continued to hammer the same stuff at them because it simply would have solidified their "no" positions. And I was very effective during my years on that city council.
posted on October 3, 2006 11:37:36 AM new
Better yet, Linda...just leave. Those who have been here for awhile know that you will never modify your technique or deliver a message that is not filled with hate.
By using the same hate filled message and technique, you failed at OTWA and they booted your ass. Does it make sense to you to continue the same tyrade here?
Unfortunately, we don't have the option to ban your ability to post here. So if you stay, reasonable posters will be repelled and you, like Hepburn will be here talking to yourself.
posted on October 4, 2006 03:33:44 AM new
ROFLMHO .....how funny.
Roadsmith. In ALL the years I've posted here at the RT NO ONE HAS EVER presented their political arguements and changed ANYONE's mind. No foolin'. LOL LOL LOL
IF you believe they have presented their position in a much better way and have actually changed ANY ONES MIND...OR position...please let us know who it was.
No one has....is THE fact. lol lol lol
But I don't see you complaining about how ALL of them haven't presented their position in the SAME way I do/have. How funny.
And helen and kiara....same ol' same ol' anti-American, liberal, busy bodies they've been for years and years. Didn't change because this president was elected AND re-elected....nope....they just haven't ever supported American policy. To them America's always the BAD guy. Wrong.
Now....I know kiara and helen just LOVE badgering me....it's their form of entertainment....always has been. But no ones listening to either of you. You've changed NO minds/political positions either....even with all your blabbering here and at otwa.
Back to the sandbox for both of you. LOL
While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation:
What would a Democrat president have done at that point? Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack.
Ann Coulter
posted on October 4, 2006 08:44:09 AM new
"Better yet, Linda...just leave. Those who have been here for awhile know that you will never modify your technique or deliver a message that is not filled with hate."
Hate? why because she has a different opinion??
Talk about someone with hate, how about Mivona?? Heres someone who has no objection
to contributing to a fund to assinate the President-WTF?? Yet Helen,I didn't see one peep out of you condemning her,like the rest of the pansy ass's over at otwa.
"by using the same hate filled message and technique, you failed at OTWA and they booted your ass."
The ONLY reason they booted her was,because you whinny assed liberals complained about her.Thats all you liberals are good for is WHINING.
"Unfortunately, we don't have the option to ban your ability to post here."
WHOS WE?? YOU WHINNY ASSED LIBERALS??
Yea its a good thing you dont have the option-at least freedom of speech exists here.
"So if you stay, reasonable posters will be repelled and you"
Whos reasonable posters Helen??
Someone whos a liberal and has your
point of view?? Well if you're repelled by a different point of view,all I can say is:
IT SUCKS TO BE YOU
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If you dont want to hear the truth....dont ask the question.
posted on October 4, 2006 09:00:06 AM new Now....I know kiara and helen just LOVE badgering me....it's their form of entertainment....always has been. But no ones listening to either of you. You've changed NO minds/political positions either....even with all your blabbering here and at otwa.
Lindak, I seldom post at Otwa and I only see Helen there once in awhile and she seems to post when she has a relevant comment that adds to the discussion. When I post a comment I don’t do it to change minds, because that is not my style.
posted on October 4, 2006 09:38:03 AM new
Here comes the #*!@ Helenjw. Talk about just leave. There is a statement you should take to heart.
They were long-time users.
Kiara, What the heck does that matter? Freedom of speach isn't only reserved for who has been somewhere longer than someone else. That is the typical Demomoron thinking though. You Helenjw, sh1t for brains davebraun and yourself should go back to the liberal boards. At least then you would be chatting with people the lack basic knowledge like onlineseller.
.
.
.
"Unfortunately there are levels of Stupid that just can't be cured!!" The new Demomoron motto.
posted on October 4, 2006 10:14:24 AM newKiara, What the heck does that matter? Freedom of speach isn't only reserved for who has been somewhere longer than someone else.
Many were long time users and all did not share the same identical beliefs but did share the board. They were there long enough to establish their reputations whether they always agreed or not. Lindak and her trolls and socks barged in and got rude and crude and tried to manipulate the entire board with their outhouse antics. They weren't welcome because they violated board rules and protocol and warnings so they were booted.
You may argue that it’s freedom of speech but some vulgar language and actions aren’t allowed in government buildings, restaurants, the homes of others, etc.
posted on October 4, 2006 10:19:52 AM new
Hey Stone DENY THIS!!!
Iraqi Police Unit Linked to Militias
Wednesday, October 4, 2006 12:40 PM EDT
The Associated Press
By SAMEER N. YACOUB
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) — Iraqi authorities have taken a brigade of up to 700 policemen out of service and put members under investigation for "possible complicity" with death squads following a mass kidnapping earlier this week, the U.S. military said Wednesday.
Meanwhile, a series of bombs went off in rapid succession in a shopping district in a mainly Christian neighborhood of Baghdad, killing 12 people and wounding 87, police said. The dead were among 28 people killed in attacks across Iraq.
The U.S. military also announced the death of two soldiers — the latest in what has been one of the bloodiest stretches of days for American troops this year. At least 17 troops have been killed in combat since Saturday, including eight U.S. soldiers who died in gunbattles and bomb blasts Monday in Baghdad — the most killed in a single day in the capital since July 2005.
posted on October 4, 2006 10:50:06 AM new "Talk about someone with hate, how about Mivona?? Heres someone who has no objectionto contributing to a fund to assinate the President-WTF??Yet Helen, I didn't see one peep out of you condemning her, like the rest of the pansy ass's over at otwa."
Classicrock000, don't try to mischaracterize my position on comments made at OTWA here. I did, in fact disagree with Mivona's suggestion. I made the following comments at OTWA about her statement.
One major problem that I see in the comment is that any suggestion of assassination is a sort of affirmation of Bush policy where the ends justify the means.
I believe that a rigid stystem that relies on points accumulated without reprieve is wrong. Other factors should be considered such as, in this case, Mivona's usual contribution which is outstanding and one of the major reasons that I and many others read this board.
Classic, you ask, "Whos reasonable posters Helen??"
One charasteristic of reasonable and responsible posters is that they tell the truth, Classic. They don't lie about what another poster said on another board. Remember that.
posted on October 4, 2006 11:33:19 AM new
And, You might also remember that I'm not there often, just as I'm not here much anymore. What is there to read here but tawdry sexual comments by old men who resemble prepubescent children. If not that there are the unrelenting shrill and nasty comments by linda and her tiresome ignorant ranting about liberals. And, if not that there is the Bigpeepa/Stonecold conflict.
You may notice that none of the posters here have gone to Colin's board in an effort to raise hell and disrupt his forum. So, the question is why are you coming from Colin's board with the sole intent to dump sh't here on a daily basis? Is the warm and cozy feeling of comraderie that you enjoy there cramping your overwhelming need to hate something or someone.
posted on October 4, 2006 12:12:17 PM newWhat the regular 'clueless' ones don't understand is that I didn't BREAK any rules there. LOL
The first amendment does not guarantee free speech in all cases. For example you can not yell fire in a crowded place.
By signing up at OTWA you were bound by their TOS. They have the right to decide whether or not you are obeying their TOS. It is obviously that your presence there was a disturbance to the board and you were more of a hindrance than any value you brought to the board.
Grow up and live it with their decision. So what now, you have one less board to post your hate filled messages to. Poor baby. I am sure you will be able to find another board to replace the OTWA.
You might want to see help for your addiction to message boards.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
