posted on October 14, 2007 08:02:43 AM new
Do any of you have wind farms in your area? I would like your thoughts or information on the 400 foot tall ones?
I have been searching the internet, it doesn't sound good. I think our town board will say yes to them. It will be so sad. Any information I can take to a meeting would be helpful.
I look forward to your thoughts. I read here all the time. Don't think I have posted here, just a few times on the ebay outlook.
NYC is a good 8 hour drive from where I live, up near Canada.
I live about an hour and a half away from the Maple Ridge Wind Farm in NY and will go tour that one next week.
Now they want to put them less than a mile from my house.
What can I do?
posted on October 14, 2007 08:36:20 AM new
Need more facts. Is this before the Zoning or Town Board? Is the proposed location Zoned for the windmills? What does the Town's Comprehensive Plan designate for the location and surrounding area? Is the Town Board the lead agency? Has there been an enviornmental review? Will there be one? Is the location close to the Town's population center? What about the County's review? What County? What Town?
Have you personally contacted your Town Supervisor or Councilman? What are their views?
posted on October 14, 2007 01:15:42 PM new
Thanks for your questions.
Here are some pictures. www.savewesternny.org/gallery3.html
The land is zoned for residential and farm land, not industrial as of yet. The county is Jefferson and they are all for it. The towns are Cape Vincent and Lyme. I live in Lyme but close to Cape Vincent.
Cape Vincent runs along the St. Lawrence River and I feel exceptionally bad for them, because of the beautiful river view. Four of their 5 board members own farms and want the Turbines.
As far as my own Town, Lyme, they want it, but they have a memorandum in place while they do the reviews.
There was an environmental study done on bats and yes we have them and they figure we can afford to lose a few. We do live in a migratory area were a lot of Canadian Geese fly south. I will ask about a migratory study.
I live just outside the hamlet and we get deer, hawks, wild turkeys, and fox out here.
The town board is considering putting them at 2500 feet from the nearest populated area, about 1/2 a mile. That was what I heard after they did a survey that asked if we thought 1000 feet was enough.
The survey pretty much told them that the small villages didn’t want them close, but they said it was ok to put them on the back roads.
Everyone seems to want the money they generate as long as the turbines are not in their back yard.
The town and school district would receive money from them along with the land owners and their neighbors that have adjoining land, or land that BP needs to get to the Turbines.
ALL of the electricity from them goes directly to NYC. We will not see a reduction in out electric bills.
Look at your electric bills and look at the part you pay for alternative energy. That is the amount you are paying for the Wind Turbines to go in my back yard.
www.savewesternny.org/gallery3.html
Things I have found while reading on the internet and watching videos on youtube is that the BP energy company is not very open about the health problems associated with the turbines.
Thanks for your responses!
posted on October 15, 2007 04:55:44 PM new
Two of the biggest health problems with the wind turbines (wind mills) are,
1. Noise levels, causing headaches, migraines, lack of sleep.
2. The flicker effect: the hour and a half in the morning and night when the sun comes up and goes down creates a huge cloud like shadow that flickers as the blades turn, causing some, mostly those with ADHD to have seizures.
3. They spray chemicals around the area and on the roads to keep the dust down and weeds down. There is water runoff and it has been known to kill fish in ponds. Does any of this enter the wells people use here for there drinking water? Would you even want your dog drinking out of a puddle?
The wind only turns the turbine about 1/3 of the time the rest of the time they run on very large generators (the size of a small bus). Generators make a lot of noise.
Some say it is like living near a freeway.
Tomorrow I will take a tour of a plant that is up and running and hear for myself what one sounds like. I have been told to find out what is making it run at the time I am there, because they will not make as much noise if it is in fact the wind turning it compared to the generator.
posted on October 15, 2007 08:47:36 PM new
This is election time in NYS. Unless your town board members are running un-opposed, or they are on a four year cycle, this could be a good election issue.
What do your neighbors think of this issue? Perhaps all opposed to the windmills could back the other candidates, who might oppose the windmills. That is if there are opposing candidates.
I'm, from upstate NY, and as I remember, many town board members usually run for office un-opposed.
Since it is too late to run a slate of candidates against the present board, only a public show against the windmills would work.
Another alternative - all the residents who are opposed to the windmills could hire an attorney to represent them. That's if you can find one willing to go against the party in power. In small communities, most attorneys depend upon income from county probates for extra income, and they do not want to be on the wrong side.
If the noise in your bedroom doesn't give you a headache, neither will a wind farm.
#3 has nothing to do with wind farms.
When there is no wind they do not spin. There is no "generator" to spin them and no point in doing so.
I'd love to see a wind turbine that "clouds out the sun". And while some people with disorders may have a problem staring at the blades, it is no different than anything else with repetitive motion.
And there is no shortage of crackpots with MDs or PhDs. Just watch any infomercial.
posted on October 16, 2007 04:52:06 AM newThe wind only turns the turbine about 1/3 of the time the rest of the time they run on very large generators (the size of a small bus). Generators make a lot of noise.
Be sure to check on this part. It just doesn't sound sensible. Why generate power with a generator to turn a turbine to generate power?
posted on October 16, 2007 05:16:19 AM new
I looked around a bit on that issue but don't have much time this morning so I might be all wet on this. It looks to me like the only situation where you'd have a backup generator would be in single use applications where the wind turbine is the ONLY source of power, such as at a remote home site or other installation. Even then, the backup generator wouldn't need to spin the wind turbine, it would just kick on when the wind wasn't sufficient for a period of time long enough to tap down the battery storage. Since wind farms are specifically NOT designed to replace fossil fuel generating plants but rather to supplement them, I'm betting they don't have any reason to be spun if the wind isn't blowing.
We use our spinners to power our main barn area, which includes a big walk in freezer, animal milking stations and holding tanks etc. We have grid power but with frequent outages around here in the summer can't afford to be without power in this critical area. We have a big old propane generator that used to do the whole job, but now only switches on if the spinners can't keep the battery banks charged. It doesn't turn the wind turbines.
Interesting topic, I bet there's a lot of hysteria on the internets in this regard....
I agree that there is a lot of exaggeration and misinformation on this topic along with an equally exaggerated and useless suggestion that you could stop this progress by becoming politically active.
In the final analysis you will have your brief time to protest and vent your exaggerated concerns but the machinery to install the turbines will not be stalled.
posted on October 16, 2007 05:58:06 AM new
Profe51: thanks so much for the info on yours! It gives me a new way to look for alternatives. A 50 foot mill, even many of them would be much better too look at than a 400 foot one. It would also be much easier to dismantle in 25 years!
Desquirrel: thank you also for your site. In your site they are talking about much smaller turbines. It said they were 25 – 50 meters; ours will be about 400 feet so I guess that is about 3 – 4 times larger, more like 150 plus meters.
I am out of time this morning – thank you all for your thoughts – keep them coming. I will check on the attorney also – I do believe there is a group that is getting one.
I believe the best for all is to find another way to generate some money for these farmers up here and for the town.
posted on October 16, 2007 10:22:35 AM new
Size doesn't matter, blade design and speed do. If anything they should turn slower and be quieter. The larger blades capture more energy and the systems are geared to maintain an optimal speed of rotation.
"Eminent Domain" currently is used mostly to steal real estate from people in prime locations and give it to fat-cat developers by corrupt politicians. This is a perfect example of what it SHOULD be used for. Preventing a group of whackos from delaying a needed community resource.
posted on October 24, 2007 09:02:59 PM new
I'm just not sure Youtube is the place to go for accurate information about something technical like wind farms. And I'm sure there are many conservatives who (1) don't believe in global warming (or evolution) and (2) are delighted to jump on anything that smacks of conservation of resources.
I live in Southern California. On both sides of the I-15 freeway between Banning and Palm Springs, there are acres and acres, several miles, of these things, and they're really quite beautiful, running silently, and freely generating power. Tourists stop and gawk at them. You can trace the wind patterns at the moment by seeing which ones are spinning. They're visible proof, to me, of man's ability to get creative and to USE what nature gives us to help our fellow man.
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posted on October 24, 2007 09:26:56 PM new
"And I'm sure there are many conservatives who (1) don't believe in global warming (or evolution) and (2) are delighted to jump on anything that smacks of conservation of resources."
I don't know any conservatives who don't believe there is global warming or anything else that can be measured. I do, however, know may dumb liberals that ascribe it to man's activities with no proof of such association and huge amounts of data contrary to the idea.
posted on October 27, 2007 08:00:32 AM new
After touring the wind mill farm and talking with the Zoning people, this is what I have I have learned.
Wind power is Not to replace fossil fuel energy – it is to add to our ever increasing need for electric energy. (Ours will all go to New York City). Each town contracts individually with the power company. We do not have a local power station here.
BP, the company that is coming here will build its own power substation. They will run most of the cables underground as we have an old railroad track that has already been cleared to run our water line along. We just got village water a few years ago.
The power lines that will be put up will be a bit larger than the regular telephone poles, more like what we have in the next city by the mall.
Then they use “eminent domain” if they need to put in K-V towers. No payments go out for them.
There are about 12 different companies putting up wind turbines in America. The Maple Ridge Wind farm is owned by PPM, BP will own ours.
Turbines cost between 2 – 3 million apiece.
425 feet tall – 120 proposed for my area
Roads will be widened to 32 feet and then reduced again after placement to 16 feet.
Electric energy, battery, is used to start the blades as they are too large (125 feet each) to start spinning by wind alone.
Once the blades are turning at a curtain speed the computer in each one, they all run separately with each one having its own computer, will switch from using power to turn the blades to collecting power.
Each one does have a large generator in it, the size of a car. But it does not use gas to run it. They are not like our generators we use to run our house when the power is off.
So they were not as noisy as I thought they would be, but there still is some metal on metal noise.
The Flickering is what I found the most annoying. They do cast extremely long shadows. They make you blink a lot.
“Set Back space” Is a must. Next time they said they would put them farther from a house.
I talked with a zoning board member and they said that turbines will be 4500 feet from the light district. The light district stops at my house.
Speed – the average turning speed of the blades is 60 – 150 mile per hour.
They have yet to finish a migratory bird study in this area. Even the wind farm up and running is still “in the process” of doing one.
This just seems wrong to me.
Their comment to my question was “they mostly just kill the songbirds”.
The companies give money to the Towns. PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes).
They lease the land (they don’t buy it) from the farmers.
There is no plan for dismantling after they depreciate.
Life expectancy of turbines is about 20 years. The contracts are for 15 years.
People living in this Town will not see their electric bill go down.
They will see their school taxes go down, if the school board does not over spend the income they will get from the town.
Land taxes may go down if the Town board does not over spend their payment.
I feel that we are the “new china” cheap farm land being used. Farmers are loosing their land. They see this as a way to keep it and make money from it. I can not blame them.
This is a very scenic area of New England. Trees change color here. We have many points, peninsulas, waterways leading to Lake Ontario. We live near the St. Lawrence River, an area called the 1000 Islands. Actually there are about 1700 islands. The “set back” for this area is currently at only 1200 feet from the center of the road that runs along the river.
Turbines along a freeway would be a much better idea.
posted on October 31, 2007 01:18:32 PM new
We have them in many parts of Minnesota as well. The lucky ones are the farmers that have them on their properties. The power company actually purchases power from the farmers. Plus they are very quiet. In most cases, you don't even notice that they are there. It simply becomes part of the "new normal" surroundings.
Frankly, If I lived in the area, I would ask to have one installed on my property. I could use the extra income. Kind of a win, win for everyone.
[ edited by ST0NEC0LD613 on Nov 5, 2007 12:15 PM ]
posted on November 4, 2007 04:10:44 AM new
We are losing raptors (eagles, hawks, etc.) in our Columbia Gorge due to wind farms. A recent article from the Salem Journal: http://tinyurl.com/3ynjbg
posted on November 4, 2007 05:53:39 AM new
The article that you linked mentions concerns that birds could be at risk. If future turbine construction plans avoid migratory paths and areas of habitat there should be no significant bird kill involved.
This chart may help to put the bird problem in perspective.
And from the link that you provided....
Raptors are known for their keen eyesight and might learn to negotiate the turbines and their spinning blades, studies suggest.
As a preventive measure, energy companies conduct wildlife studies before designating a specific site for development. They submit their findings to state or county authorities, who decide whether projects will go forward.
In some cases, regulators have required developers to shift turbine locations, establish buffer zones or set aside acreage exclusively for wildlife.
posted on November 4, 2007 01:38:05 PM new
Nice to see the list of bird killers but the real "killer" is the core problem of all our problems ....the "O" word no one wants to mention....OVERPOPULATION.
I'll bell my cat when greedy land developers are "belled" along with people who have 5, 6, 7, 8 kids and people who "need" McMansions.
posted on November 4, 2007 01:47:52 PM new
Good post, Mingo. When I worked for Planned Parenthood in the 70s and went to national conferences, we would be challenged by speaker after speaker to come up with a world problem that is NOT caused by overpopulation. Never could.
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posted on November 4, 2007 03:19:40 PM newwe would be challenged by speaker after speaker to come up with a world problem that is NOT caused by overpopulation.
If I had to answer that question today, I would give one answer: AIDS "In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid, and the envious. - John Wilmot, the Second Earl of Rochester
posted on November 7, 2007 08:27:50 PM new
allthatglitters - yesterday was election day for your town. Were the current board members voted out of office because of their favor of wind farms? Or, were they returned to office for another two years? If they were returned to office, you can be sure that there will be wind farms in your area.
posted on November 8, 2007 04:25:41 AM new
logans:
I've read a theory that the HIV may have originally jumped species from primates to human hosts as a result of reliance on bush meat in overpopulated areas of Africa. So even AIDS may be a result of overpopulation.
posted on November 13, 2007 07:01:27 AM new
Elections:The problem here was that every one running for office is in some way "for" wind turbines.
The only good part was that my brother was running for town supervisor and he won. I have been sending him information, so he is getting an ear full of concerns.
The town next to us with the biggest problems (putting turbines close to the river district) didn't change any seats.
There is a group in that town that does have a lawyer.
[http://www.stlawrencewind.org/]
Farther down state is my sisters county and she is a town councilman there. They have no zoning and may be a poorer county than we are.
A lot of information is being past around between us.
These are NOT the type of "wind mills" that you can put up in your back yard. These Turbines are owned by the largest oil companies, BP will own ours. Each turbine will cost about 3 million dollars to put up.
I wish the farmers could put up the smaller wind mills and sell electricity to the local utility.
Farmers have not found this an option here. It maybe the cost involved.
When BP moves in there is no cost to the farmer.
This is all about politics and money. I do not see this being about clean fuel(that is just the advertising).
Governor, Mayor, tax breaks for the oil companies, (feeding each other) and New York City using as much electricity as it wants, that is what this is all about.
I would love to hear from someone that lives in a house with a view of a 425 foot (height of a 40 story building) spinning tower that has something good to say about them.
So far the only ones I have heard from are the people making money from them.
The rest of us tax payers will just have to suffer with them.
Have you learned why these turbines are not concentrated in offshore areas? I suppse that would cost the developers more MONEY...which like you suggested makes everything, including politicians spin and whirl.
