posted on December 7, 2008 07:09:04 PM new
To make a long story short,here's the deal-
I am in HK right now,my parents are 93,90 years old.
My mother short term memory is pretty much gone and can no longer be trusted to manage finance and venture out alone!
MY parents have decided to liquidate her stock portfolio and disburse the proceeds among us-children,in laws and grandchildren.
HK laws are similar to ours in broad term although its banking rules are more stringent.
At their request,I have managed to liquidate her portfolio and the proceeds are ready to be disbursed.
Some of us live in the states,some in HK while others maintain dual residences in HK and Canada/Australia .
My youngest brother in Australia who maintains a residence in HK and return often objects vehemently to this idea,so much so he claimed to have the support of my other siblings that the fund should be returned back to my mother bank account and here is the reasons why-
My parents have an old time neigbor who has been on life support for over 2 years in the hospital,what if my father passes away before my mother and distributes his $$ among his children and left her with no money and she needs medical care like this neigbor?
By leaving the proceeds in her bank account,the HK govt will set up a committee to oversee her welfare.
I posed this question to my father and he said as long as he lives,he will provide for his wife as he has done so for the last 60 plus years and after he passes away,he expects his children to support her and we should have no problem doing so with his $$.
He found the idea of HK govt committee bizarre,incredulous for lack of better words.
I am now caught in the middle,I would like my brother et al who do not trust their own investment acumen or whatever to open a HK bank account targeted for her welfare with their share of the inheritance instead of what I think sounds like an act of 'institutionalising thy mother'.
At first I am moved by how much they cared for their mother but now I recall one has never want any responsibility of physically taking care of them and the other in Australia has once confided in me that his wife who had cancer years ago still suffers from some aftermaths and would not want to overburden her with an ailing mother in law whether she would be living with them or in an Aussie nursing home.
I am lost ,I hate to go back to my father and report all the trivials but I am returning to the States after Xmas and would like to get this task completed before I leave .
I know some of you have dealt with similar situation before,please share your insight and suggestions/advice.
Thanks.
*
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 7, 2008 07:09 PM ]
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 8, 2008 01:13 AM ]
posted on December 7, 2008 07:30:31 PM new
how bad is my mother's short term memory problem?
After having lunch,she walked to see my father in the den,and it takes a few minutes to do so,my father asked her what did you have for lunch?
She said'I dont remember.'
Her niece came to see them last Monday and come Tuesday she has no recollection of such,then her nephew came on Tuesday and aft
er they left,she has no recollection of their visit.
She asked where do all these candies and cakes come from?
She still think she has her stocks and follow them daily.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 7, 2008 07:42:13 PM new
Why would you even want to start this kind of nightmare which will only end in sibling warfare and legal fees?
This situation is hardly unique. Contact a brokerage or legal firm in HK versed in tax laws and set up some kind of trust. With the terms explicitly set and determined in advance, you will lessen the bickering and warfare.
posted on December 7, 2008 07:49:52 PM new
"They have decided to liquidate her stock portfolio and disburse the proceeds among us-children,in laws and grandchildren."
"At their request,I have managed to liquidate her portfolio and the proceeds are ready to be disbursed."
"She still think she has her stocks and follow them daily."
A couple of questions come to mind here. When you say "they have decided ..." just who is "they" as it appears that your mother might be incapable of administering her own affairs. Especially in light of "She still think she has her stocks and follow them daily."
Further, who with authority over your mother's affairs instructed you to liquidate the stock and distribute the money?
It appears that there may be diverse opinions as to the handling of the proceeds. Check and make sure that you are acting well within the law and you have Power of Attorney, or are acting in behalf of someone who does.
There is nothing worse than a family squabbling over money. You just might find yourself on the wrong side when this is finished.
posted on December 7, 2008 07:53:58 PM new
good suggestion,but my father is still alive and very much in control as the patriah,this is what he wants to be done.
so if I hire a third party to manage the trust,do I just dump my brother shares in the trust and disburse the rest who prefer to take their money.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 7, 2008 08:06:48 PM new
They means my parents.
My parents have decided that my mother should distribute her networth which is mostly in stocks,bank accounts and jewelry.
She has no checking account,or E- banking,just an old fashion passbook savings account which has a max of how much it can hold.
It is not possible to dump all that money back into her acct as it way exceeds its limit.
My father instructs me to liquidate her portfolio and me and my mother then went to the bank vault to retrieve her stock certificates,then to her broker where she signed papers to transfer these certificates to be sold.
The proceeds are then deposited into her bank account.
She then add my name to her account so I can either withdraw or make deposit for her.
But she has already forgotten all these acts.
She cannot read a statement or an invoice or her old voucher or her passbook savings account,although she tried and tried.
My mother is very frail,suffered numerous fractures of the hip/pelvic plus memory loss,
it is quite an accomplishment for us to venture into the business district,zipzap our way through millions of people,went to sub basementwhere the bank vault is,emerged with 2 shopping bags of stock certificates,then proceeded to another building and settled down in a conference room of her broker and watched a team of 4 clerks counting her stock certicates.This is just the first stage of the saga.
We have already incurred some casualty taking care of her,my brother in law suffered a heart problem while taking her to the lab for her fracture.
He was in the hospital for stent implant on oct 24th,then returned to hospital for bacteria in his blood- sepsis,he is still in the hospital getting his antibiotics twice a day.
MAY BE DUMPING ALL THE PROCEEDS BACK INTO HER ACCOUNT(S) is not a bad idea.
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 7, 2008 08:33 PM ]
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 7, 2008 08:38 PM ]
posted on December 7, 2008 08:36:38 PM new
Well, it certainly appears that your mother does not have the mental capacity to decide to sell her stock, or how to disperse her money.
Perhaps the laws of HK are different, which I seriously doubt, so you better make sure everyone agrees with what you are doing, because you may find yourself being sued or worse yet, under arrest.
Unless your father has acquired POA over your mother's affairs, he has no more authority to liquidate her holdings and disperse the funds, than you do.
Good luck to you. If your brother or other relatives really want to disagree with you, you just might not make it back to the USA after the holidays.
posted on December 7, 2008 08:56:04 PM new
The issue here is that some of us do not want their money,not that they are cheated out of their fair share.
My suggestion is that they use their money to open an account or take out a CD and use it to pay for her expenses if the needs arrive which I doubt it will happen.
Just because their neighbor is on life support does not mean the whole world will end up on life support!
I tend to agree with my father and am beginning to question my brothers' motives .Like my father said,what is wrong with the children taking care of their mother? why do we need the Hong Kong govt committee to manage her affair unless it eventually morph into a welfare case with no liability to her children?
*
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 8, 2008 01:25 AM ]
posted on December 8, 2008 03:57:04 AM new
Look at this from the outside in. It is the beginning of a nightmare. Your father's theory of the children taking care of the parents is "optimistic" in a scenario where people talk about "their" money. It is not "theirs" it is HERS and HIS. GET A LAWYER. How can anyone argue if her money is set up to take care of her needs and upon her passing is divided equally? Your father should do something similar now while he is able.
posted on December 8, 2008 05:23:30 AM new
Forgive me if I'm reading more into this than is the case. In my experience, families rich with conservative doctors who are strongly against nationalized medical programs, labeling recipients of the programs as leeches on society, had no problem dividing up their nursing-home relative's estate early, putting her on medic-aid and ensuring that her life-long earnings went to relatives instead of the final months of her medical care. If this is your case and your conscience supports it, so be it. I have no problem with it. Please, however be more sympathetic with supporting programs that provide medical coverage for the poor and working poor and for programs that keep medically-challenged people out of bankruptcy. Edited to add: and you might want to lose your sig line, hypocritical if you choose to jump on the "socialized" medicine bandwagon.
[ edited by pixiamom on Dec 8, 2008 05:37 AM ]
posted on December 8, 2008 05:39:34 AM new
Your parents should consult a lawyer immediately. It's not too late to establish a will and a financial plan in the event of their deaths.
posted on December 8, 2008 06:08:53 AM new
pixiamom,
I dont know how good a listener you are but you sure did not impressed me as a perceptive and intuitive reader.
BUT THEN NEITHER ARE PELOSI AND HILARY,SO YOU ARE IN GOOD COMPANY.Here once again,I proudly present my tagline!
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 8, 2008 06:15:53 AM new
I will do some research on HK law on this committee business,thanks for your help.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 8, 2008 06:24:50 AM new
vForgive me if I'm reading more into this than is the case. In my experience, families rich with conservative doctors who are strongly against nationalized medical programs, labeling recipients of the programs as leeches on society, had no problem dividing up their nursing-home relative's estate early, putting her on medic-aid and ensuring that her life-long earnings went to relatives instead of the final months of her medical care. If this is your case and your conscience supports it, so be it. I have no problem with it. Please, however be more sympathetic with supporting programs that provide medical coverage for the poor and working poor and for programs that keep medically-challenged people out of bankruptcy. Edited to add: and you might want to lose your sig line, hypocritical if you choose to jump on the "socialized" medicine bandwagon.
////////////////////////////////////////
on second thought,may be I should use the above as my tagline,it reminds me of Pelosi and the need to rush and throw up into the toilet.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 8, 2008 01:18:06 PM new
Your father is putting an undue burden onto you. If he's "the patriarch", he should hire an attorney and direct the attorney to follow his and your mother's wishes.
Just curious, are stock portfolios in Honk Kong doing as well as they are here?
posted on December 8, 2008 04:14:17 PM new
Our parents have set up a living trust. Our father died in 2001 and our mother is now 82 and quite capable of managing her affairs.
You might think about setting something like that. Your father can act as Trustee as long as he is capable and the trust can make provisions for who will act as Trustee in the event one or both parents are incapable (Does not have to be an outside agent - could be one of the siblings)
It sounds like property passes 50% to surviving spouse and 50% to children. I really think you should see a lawyer before you disburse the proceeds.
-------------------------------------
posted on December 8, 2008 06:03:38 PM new
prof,
The HK markets,be it housing,stock,bonds,job,are all doing poorly.
Both my parents have wills,when my parents come upwith this idea,it seems simple enough,sell the stocks and distribute among family members,what is the big deal?
But it took me almost 1 month to have the fund ready to be disburstd.
HK may have E BANKING but security is very tight,it is not like I can send money all over the world in different curencies to anyone I want.
My mother has always wanted to spend her last years with my Aussie brother if she ever otlive my father but it looks like my Aussie brother has other ideas.
He has told us recently it is not doable,so mommy dearest would have to stay in a HK nursing home and he will visit her when he and his wife are back in town every year.
HK system works in such a way if a patient enters a nice 'facility' with proof she has means to foot the bills for the forseablefuture,she would not be easily evicted once her fund runs out.
And this is the case with their neigbor who has been on life support,she is now in her third year lying in a private hospital bed on feeding tubes and someone is picking up the tab and it is not her heirs.
I hate to do this to my dad who is deaf in one ear and can only walk with a walker that he would have to deal with it after I left for the States.
All I can say is when it comes to money matter,it is never simple and straight forward.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
posted on December 8, 2008 07:22:07 PM new
Hwahwa, If you are distributing your Mother's financial estate early in order to avoid having all or most of your mother's money used to pay for her maintenance in a nursing home, you may need some legal advice.
posted on December 8, 2008 08:15:29 PM new
It is not my idea,it is my parents' idea.
My father has the means to pay for her nursing home expenses many times over!
If everything stays the same ,the two can live another 100 years comfortably without asking any of us for a dime!
Good news,my brothers have agreed to take the money and do whatever they want.
Thanks for all your help.
*
Economic Reform act of Chairman Obama of the socialist States of America :
10 ounces of meat per month,half a yard of cotton per year per adult.
Hellilujah!
