I enjoyed the hearings today on MSNBC. Fascinating stuff to hear Ashcroft's past quotes that if applied to him now, would mean they should vote against his nomination.
More fun and games tomorrow, starts 10 am I think.
posted on January 16, 2001 10:39:35 PM new
I thought he would be more composed than he was. He was pretty nervous, and I didn't think he handled it very well. I wish he would just answer the questions without having the written responses in front of him.
Powells hearing is tomorrow too. They're going to question him about his speaking fees.
posted on January 17, 2001 10:37:42 AM new
I am waiting for all of the senators to stand up stomp their feet and Sing Glory Hallelujah
Ashcroft may even sing the gospel!
posted on January 17, 2001 03:31:10 PM new
"I picked John Ashcroft because he's a good attorney. He's going to be the attorney general, he's going to be the nation's lawyer, and he'll enforce the laws on the books. And people will get a chance to hear that. This, too, was a person who was elected to public office."
posted on January 17, 2001 03:57:29 PM new
He looks like some vile snake hoping that his
true agenda won't be addressed.
He's not all about Christianity, or abortion, or any of the rest. He's about the 'radical right' or the 'far right', call it as you like. The same elements in our society who would do the Oklahoma City or the Atlanta olympics bombing.
White supremism is what Ashcroft is about, with only an imposed tolerance for any grouping that is not in line with the norms as perceived through the perverse eyes of of those who would return the state of our culture to pre civil war ideals.
The blacks, jews, non christian, and assorted other enemies are the reason for the oppression of the ignorant southern white. Nothing has been right in this country since the south lost that war. Ask them.
They want him appointed so that the gun law enforcement will relax and the previously active investigation and prosecution of their enclaves will cease.
It's a blind and irrational hope, but it's theirs and they believe in it.
John Ashcroft is the skinhead Spartacus. But what a mealy-mouthed hero he is.
posted on January 17, 2001 07:53:57 PM new
I hope gun law enforcement will relax, no matter who we get as an AG. In my opinion most of the gun restriction are unconstitutional.
We need to implement a federal concealed carry permit process. Only restrictions should be a criminal record, or mental instability, and you must be over 18.
Requirements, instant background check, certified training of at least 20 hours, including classroom and range, and you pay the reasonable fee (no more then $40.00). Since you have a permit, there is no longer any need to register guns when purchased.
Should also get rid of the ridiculous restrictions on so called "assault" weapons. This is a meaningless term that gun grabbing politicians came up with to frighten people who don't know any better.
Greg
No, I am not a right wing republican. I consider myself to be an average American citizen who feels it is my constitutional "duty" to protect myself, my family, and my property. Especially from a tyranical government.
posted on January 17, 2001 10:58:16 PM new
Well, (taking a deep breath) I was going to write some different stuff than this tonight - a few good natured jibes and a or two. But I am dismayed and very hurt when people in this thread are tarred with such a broad brush.
I was born and raised In Rural Arkansas. My family worked hard through the depression and kept their place. Some volunteered and gave their lives for this country. Some people hated the okies and arkies - folks said they weren't hardly human - they were so poor and dirty.
I have a great many friends that are by your standards must be these poor ignorant white folks you refer to. They don't have much schooling, the singlewide with tarpaper additions is not always much to look at - but it's theirs.
I know a couple of them that are bigots - no sense in making excuses - there are some out there. A couple of folks out of all my friends and not one, but two, extended families. But to fold all poorly educated whites into a group and then portray them enmass as racist trash?
My God, to hate a whole group - to hate me? to hate my family? To hate hundreds of thousands of people you have not met? Did anybody read that Speech the other day by Martin Luther King? The one where we were called upon to judge people by their own caracter and not the color of their skin or their stature in society??
But it's OK - because once you dehumanize and demonnize a group it is easier to deal with them. They, like me, are white and from the south - and we must all be seen as evil.
For anybody reading this I recommend reading "Confederates in the attic" which won the Pulitzer Prize a few years back. It's worth the effort and it deals exactly about the Civil war and the effects that we see into our own society 139 years later, including race and perceptions.
end of line
Edited because nutspec spells poorly when hurt and angry.
[ edited by nutspec on Jan 17, 2001 11:03 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 01:10:45 AM new
nutspec - I'm truly sorry you are hurt. I enjoy your posts. You are witty and seemed to have some fun here.
You know before this election I didn't think about the South one way or another. But, it seems to have brought so many differences to light. We really are a country divided by religion, education, and economics.
When I saw that map with all the states that voted for Bush, I thought what is wrong with those people? You talk about the South being poor and uneducated. This makes me think, yes, and maybe the Republicans use religion as a control. Religion is something they can relate to. I don't know how many people are Evangelists in the South. It seems that that segment of Christians is so hateful and predjudice, and if so many people voted for Bush they hold the same beliefs.
I know you are a collector of the Civil War. I should read the book you suggested, because I just don't understand why the Confederacy in itself is almost worshiped.
Of course I don't hate you, your family, or friends. But you know all of this is hard for me to comprehend. Please forgive me for rambling on, but it's like I've been thrown into a world that I don't understand, and it's confusing. I should have been paying more attention before now.
posted on January 18, 2001 01:58:22 AM new
Nutspec,
You've not understood me fully. I've read the book that you mention and I assure you that I was not refering to the entire population of the southern states, but to that portion of the populace of the country as a whole who subscribe to such ideas of a better America, a truer one which existed prior to the war. You know as a Californian now that the Confederate flag can be seen in this state and in all states, worn or displayed as a symbol of an ideal that cannot be, a myth really.
But the attitude is heavily predominant in the south, naturally, and the adoption of the sort of supremist defensive, now often offensive posture engendered by that attitude is more complete in the south, amongst those white elements of the population which feels that their lot in life is a result of the rise to equality of peoples once restricted in the culture.
If I meant to paint with the brush that you see I'd have to color my own grandfather with it, as well as my cousin Ward.
posted on January 18, 2001 03:04:56 PM new
krs......."The blacks, jews, non christian, and assorted other enemies are the reason for the oppression of the ignorant southern white. Nothing has been right in this country since the south lost that war. Ask them."
Whew!
I'm having a problem understanding this.
I always agree with your posts but this one is far out!
posted on January 18, 2001 04:33:25 PM newchococake:
When I saw that map with all the states that voted for Gore, I thought what is wrong with those people? This makes me think, yes, maybe the Democrats use religion as a slur. Religion is something they can't relate to. I don't know how many people are liberals in your area, but it seems that a segment of liberals are so hateful and prejudice. If so many people voted for Gore they surly must hold the same beliefs.
posted on January 18, 2001 05:02:32 PM new
"The blacks, jews, non christian, and assorted other enemies are the reason for the
oppression of the ignorant southern white. Nothing has been right in this country since
the south lost that war. Ask them."
posted on January 18, 2001 05:35:39 PM new
Sure Toke, ascribe the attitude to me and then call it vile. Otherwise, I suppose, it's OK with you, eh? But too bad.it's not my attitude, which you should have known by the very fact that I've spoken of it.
I don't know what other chatboards you all wander into, and I won't direct you to where you can find a virilent and active set of groups of people working with all seriousness to 'take back' the country and restore it to some semblance of what I've described above. Many of them are heavily financed and most are quite well armed. Partisan terrorists in our own country; rebels, if you prefer.
posted on January 18, 2001 05:59:37 PM new
I think that some of you may be misreading KRS intent in the post above. He is not advocating the bigotry of the element of society that he describes, but rather pointing it out. There have been quite a few TV segments, magazine articles, and books about such groups.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:44:21 PM new
Is there a difference between a Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian? This is an honest question I don't know. I didn't know Gore was born again until the debates.
Like I said in my other post this is all new to me. I was brought up Catholic. I questioned the idea of religion, and worship of any religious icon at an early age. I am friends with people of all faiths, but have never known anyone with these radical beliefs (except the Jehovahs that came to the door on Sat. mornings).
posted on January 18, 2001 06:46:56 PM new
Hi Helen,
Ashcroft's association with and praise of such organizations as Bob Jones University and Southern Partisan magazine have been some of the central concerns by the mainstream press and many others with Ashcroft's selection.
This is a source of information and link to online articles from Southern Partisan if anyone is interested in investigating its views. I've noticed a lot of web pages devoted to Southern Partisan are no longer accessible since its recent publicity.
Decided I would really rather no publicize it.
[ edited by Antiquary on Jan 18, 2001 06:50 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 07:48:43 PM new
Thanks Dan,
All things considered you're probably very wise not to post links to that garbage.
Helen,
The sorts of things that I've posted concerning this are of general interest, and are incendiary in many cases, but I don't personally have any stake or belief which is described by them. In the pursuit of an interest in a type of shooting that I do have, I've often come across expressions made in complete fervor which would, or should, I think, be uncomfortable to us all. I've found the same sorts of ideas at several locations as I've wandered around the net exploring the issues and inconsistencies associated with this so called election. In both of those activities of mine there is proponderance of expression from people who are both republican and fundamental christian. Many of the people that I've seen posting are flat out scary in their blind subscription to ideas that would undercut the structure of this nation. The worst of it is that there very often doesn't seem to be any thought or decision process behind what they are saying. It's like chanting; call it dogma; and remember the effect of such obedience to abberation in another country some 50 to 80 years ago. It's real and increasingly seen as the only answer by some elements in the society. Those elements are centered in the southern states.
The magazine mentioned by Dan is only the civilized tip of a monstrous iceberg that is presented in print in justification of a perversity. Costs $160. to subscibe to the quarterly, I think, so you know it's not aimed at everyman.
posted on January 18, 2001 10:06:28 PM newchococake, unless you guessed libertarian you would have been wrong.
I don't really like the far end of either political party, as they both seem to want to run everyone else's life. Seems their philosophy is if you don't agree with them you are wrong and should be insulted and abused.
I think I have enough common sense to decide what is right for myself and my parents taught me right from wrong so I treat others with respect. So, why do I need some politician (or substitute any other power crazed fanatic) to tell me how to live my life.
posted on January 19, 2001 05:57:33 AM new
My family was Southern and we have lived in the South. There is a different culture there and it has it's advantages and problems.
My family always had a concept of personal honor. You kept a deal even if there was no written contract. You treated everyone with a formal courtesy without regard to their station in life or wealth. You also demanded a certain respect from people and if they treated you with contempt at some point it could no longer be settled without violence.
I saw a lesbian couple having trouble with an elderly neighbor in the South. They kept messing with his property and had been warned that they should stay on their side of the property line and leave his things alone. They were from New York and real pushy. They probably thought that he would sue them. One day they decided they did not like the high hedges he had for privacy blocking their view down the street so they were in the middle of cutting his hedge down to chest high (on his property) when he came out of the house and shot them both dead where they stood hedge clippers in hand.
The family moaned in the paper about how he could not tolerate "strong women" and how he was "threatened" by them. They assumed that it was the fact they were lesbians that motivated him. They did not get it at all. He had warned them and they did not respect his property rights. They also made fun of him and called him an "old man" publically. He would have done the same to two men treating him like that. Their sexual orientation had nothing to do with it. It was a culture clash. They felt safe to be rude and did not know where the line was so to speak. Any local would have known not to mess with a man's land and to humiliate him in public. Actually he treated them as equals by local standards.
They just did not know the culture. In New York they could have gotten away with it.
