Some amazing comments and a few facts excerpted, but there's more inside:
"The Republican head of the Florida Division of Elections, Clay Roberts, dismissed the Post analysis with an argument of stupefying cynicism,claiming that overvotes were intentional political choices. “People who
are engaged in politics can't understand why people would overvote,” he said. “But there are valid reasons for undervotes and overvotes. For some voters, that undervote or overvote is their decision.”
Doesn't that make perfect sense? People often decide to vote twice for the same office. Sure.
But wait!
There were other anomalies. Officials in Lake County, who are Republican loyalists, ruled that a presidential ballot with two marks on
it—one by the name, the other a write-in for the same candidate—was invalid, although state law allows them to be counted. The result was that 628 legal votes were discarded, votes which went disproportionately to Gore. Including these votes would have cut Bush's lead by 122 votes. Gore would have gained another 72 votes from similar double votes discarded in several smaller counties."
"Lake County also printed the name of Joe Lieberman in small type directly above the word Libertarian in the party label on the line below. As a result, nearly 300 voters in Lake County cast ballots for Gore and Libertarian Harry Browne, which were ruled invalid."
Now don't get me wrong. In no way do I believe that this sort of trickery was used by Bush to win. After all, it's cheating, illegal, and it takes brains to pull it off. Not that the first two characteristics are beyond Georgie, but who could deny that the last one definitely is?
posted on February 5, 2001 10:47:57 PM new
A "socialist-slanted" story posted in some "communist" rag?
The conclusion is based on "OVERVOTES" and "INVALID" ballots.
Take a Chevy to a body shop; and after beating and welding on it for a few months, they can make it look like a Cadillac……..but it will still ride like a Chevy.
Clinton has been smitten and Gore is no more.
Bush da man,yaaahhh!
"I'm so far to the right, I am almost at the left."
posted on February 6, 2001 12:35:10 AM new
But then, republicans are socialists. While the term has meanings not well understood in this country because it has always been associated, at least since Richard Nixon in 1952 said so, with communism, it's really something quite different.
Nevermind who sits fumbling in the chair like some little gerber collectible, he sits there as a result of a hienous crime perpetrated by his campaign and embellished by his family, La Casa Bushtra. That crime doesn't just go away without resolution anymore than any other crime does which has no statute applied to limit it to do so.
And that paper is right in that there is little press on the matter inside of the US, but it is right as well in describing the view taken and held by major portions of the rest of the world. So when boy george goes a callin', feeling all self important as the appointed president of the united states, he'll be viewed with derision, not that he wouldn't be even if rightfully elected by the people of the country, and will probably be made to sit at the children's table to play with his food while the world adults talk.
posted on February 6, 2001 05:04:59 AM new
What it comes down to is that even the highest court in the land is in their pocket so there is no legal way to redress the situation.
The only solution - taking to the streets in open rebellion is more than soft Americans would ever do again. It is something studied in history books that people did against foreign powers. The public schools have the herds well trained that government is your friend - there to help you.
Now if the government took football airtime and put government talking heads on TV when there was supposed to be Football they would be hanging from the lamp posts the next morning! There are limits after all to changing our sacred institutions.
[ edited by gravid on Feb 6, 2001 05:08 AM ]
posted on February 6, 2001 07:14:23 AM newcorrdogg - Well stated.
krs - The author of that article made a statement that troubled me. So I went to the WashingtonPost and the Chicago Tribune sites and did a search. On both sites there are references that state that the counting of the under and over votes in Florida will begin today, by approx. 7 different news agencies (those two incluced), and most likely will be completed in March.
Also, it seemed to me that the author of that article didn't think too highly of the Democrats or their leaders either. I clicked on the link directly below that article and he again didn't seem to me to be supporting the Democrats. Just seemed to be promoting more 'warring'.
Not that overvotes matter anyway, as they have never counted in the US elections. (They void the vote.) Of course, some Democrats feel that any undervote was a vote intended for Gore. But many voters do chose not to vote for the presidential candidate, and they voted just for the issues/other offices that were important to them.
I especially liked the way the Chicago Tribune put it. quote:
By the end of March every American should know the real outcome of the presidential vote in Florida. Several real outcomes, actually. You can pick the one you like."
posted on February 6, 2001 07:20:27 AM newRenunciation and Exodus Decree and Promise
I, (Print Full Name Here), the undersigned, hereby renounce my United State's citizenship and wish to be excluded as a recipient of all benefits forthcoming from, and/or or occurring because of, the present Presidential administration.
Furthermore, I, the undersigned, wish to accompany Alec Baldwin and Susan Sarandon, who promised to renounce their U.S. citizenship if George W. Bush won the election, as they exit the U.S. to live in a different country.
Upon signing this document, I desire that all stated and applicable petition(s) and respective provision(s) be granted and processed in the most expeditious manner.
Signed:Comrade
Witness:
Date:
"I'm so far to the right, I am almost at the left."
posted on February 6, 2001 07:46:55 AM new
RE: World Socialist Web SitePublished by the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICHI)
”The International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI) is the leadership of the world socialist movement, the Fourth International founded by Leon Trotsky in 1938.”.
”The ICFI rests on the proud heritage of the movement founded by Leon Trotsky, co-leader with Lenin of the Russian Revolution.”
posted on February 6, 2001 07:58:44 AM new
Now now. Marxism and communism are NOT the same thing at all. Poor, loving Karl's ideals were distorted by self seekers, and what did they do to Lenin and Trotsky? Didn't like them much, after all. But wasn't there a very high level American, a president in fact, who thought that they deserved our support? No, guess again! Not FDR-he supported stalinist Russia. Before that.......go ahead....class
posted on February 6, 2001 08:16:58 AM new
What past do you live in? Ronny got rid of the commies, and now you're supposed to suspect all arab peoples or anyone who says anything that you can take as arab sympathetic as being Omar Kadafi's brother in law. That's all that's left to you now.
[i]Then we should ask patriotic and courageous members of the United States House of Representatives to follow Article II, Section 4, of the United States Constitution and initiate impeachment proceedings against these members of the Supreme Court -- Rehnquist, Scalia, Thomas, O'Connor, and Kennedy. The charges being that the five Justices appear to have intentionally broken their oaths to uphold the Constitution by violating the constitutionally provided manner that prescribes how the president and vice president are to be elected. Therefore, the charges should be the high crimes of unlawfully usurping Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, and conspiracy to usurp Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution.
end quote.
So, I would then ask you, since you seem to be agreeing with this article (?) who would appoint the new 5 Supremes in the event those 5 were impeached?
posted on February 6, 2001 09:15:51 AM new
Zazzie, just curious. Did Canadians ever do such things? Build bomb shelters, teach kids what to do in case of nuclear attack in school?
posted on February 6, 2001 09:27:49 AM new
My brother and sister remember mattresses lining the walls of the school basement and doing the drills....so I suppose the answer is yes. And I've seen Canadian Government pamphlets instructing you on surving the 'Big One'.
posted on February 6, 2001 09:34:22 AM new"Of course many Russian people are baffled by it and tend to regard it as a vivid demonstration of how imperfect this system is.
Now that statement IS something to laugh at/about. The Russian's think OUR system is imperfect?????? LOLOLOLOLOL Oh yes, their's is soooooo much better....always has been....LOLOLOLOl
And then Fidel Castro's ....oh, yes....I'd just *love* to live under his dictatorship.
posted on February 6, 2001 10:04:02 AM new
I'll bet you didn't have "Tommy the Turtle", the duck and cover spokescartoon, in Canada. Unlike other countries, we made the cold war, and the prospect of nuclear annihilation, fun.
Check out the "Atomic Cafe" video if you really want to be reminded of what it was like.
posted on February 6, 2001 10:07:23 AM new
Sure Zazzie - other countries were too. I just stated the ones I found to be very humorous to me.
Many people in the US didn't understand our electoral college system either. But that's how we elect the president and vice president of the USA. Many more understand since this election. The candidate who gets the majority of the popular vote, doesn't necessarily win the election. This election wasn't the first time it happened.
posted on February 6, 2001 10:14:22 AM new
You are right ---even most AMERICANS didn't understand the Electoral College prior to this election.
But I've heard many many thoughts for the reason behind the establishment of this election device--that I really don't know which is the truth and which is spin.
The modern version of it's existence does not seem to jive with the original reason of it's existence
