mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:00:22 PM new
I've been debating something all day today and the more I think about it the madder and more confused I get. So, maybe some of you can help me clear my mind about how to handle this... or if I even should.
About six months ago a seven year old little girl in our community died in an accident. She was an only child and her parents were of course completely devastated by her death.
The girls parents didn't attend a church. The paternal grandmother did and occasionally took their daughter with her to services.
I just learned last night that the preacher's wife from that church actually stood in the waiting room of the hospital while the child was on life support and said a prayer "of gratitude to God" that the Grandmother had taken the child to church so that she "might know God." I didn't know this family personally so I didn't attend the funeral. But, according to the same friend who is close to the family the pastor also said a prayer during the child's funeral that was effectively thanking the grandmother for "saving" the child's soul. She also said that the grandmother made quite a show in the waiting room of the hospital about how she had been the only one to take the child to church. Well, big deal.
I've been spitting nails ever since I heard about all this and am just beside myself with wanting to go confront these two. I've even played with the idea of walking into their church on Sunday morning and giving my own little sermon to them in front of their congregation. My friend that knows the child's mother says that she is convinced to this day that she "failed" her daughter.
Even though I want to go confront the preacher and his wife - in a way I keep thinking that since so much time has passed, and I wasn't there or involved that I should just let it go. I just really don't want to let it go though. And, if I do decide to confront them, I really want them to get why their actions are so hurtful and ungod-like and not to just think I'm some off the wall sinner. But, I'm not sure I would be able to keep from YELLLING at them!
And, it's not that I don't believe in God... I just think that what they did in the supposed name of God was ludicrous and cruel.
Would you let it go?
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:09:28 PM new
yes... because you are no more right then they were. 
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Zazzie
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:10:57 PM new
Do this Preacher and his wife and the Grandmother believe the child would be burning in Hell now if Granny hadn't taken her to church???
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:11:49 PM new
O.K. But can you elaborate?
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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capriole
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:11:53 PM new
Holy crust.
The self-agrandizement of some of the pious types are enough to make me hurl.
I would suggest rise above it.
Send any comfort you can to the parents.
Change churches.
What is the matter with people?
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:15:10 PM new
Zazzie
I don't know but they must or why would they make such an issue of it? That's what bothers me so much. I think it's a case of them acting like the church somehow makes them more Godly... and the mother's failure to take her daughter there was some kind of a sin in their eyes. But, even if they believe that why in the world would they shove it in the parents faces while the daughter is dying and then again at the funeral. it just makes me angry.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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nettak
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:17:53 PM new
Just take a deep breath and calm down.
I can understand how you feel towards this witch of a woman. It kind of makes you want to scream HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
The grandmother sound like she gloried in this child's passing. Although she may not have been able to show her emotions any other way. Some people need to be seen as better than others even in such tragic circumstances.
The pastor and his wife should both have known better than to do what they did, I would want to smack them out for it, but you can't do that. So let it go.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:18:02 PM new
Capriole I don't attend a church - and I have to admit I'm wondering if that's part of the reason I'm so angry over this. I've always "protected" my own children from organized religion.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Zazzie
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:19:09 PM new
Well---I hope the family is attending some sort of grief counselling.
Hopefully there they will come to know that they gave their child the things that counted--their unconditional love.
Granny seems to have somehow forgotten this
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nettak
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:22:50 PM new
Oh my I hope the Grief Counselling is not church based. This could make matter much worse for the poor parents. Can you imagine what is being said to them if it is at the church.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:23:31 PM new
Nettak You know that I have a huge respect for your opinion. So, please don't tell me to let it go... smacking is called for don't ya think?
Seriously, doesn't anyone think I should at least talk to these two about the cruelty of what they did. How can they be so blind to cause that kind of pain in the name of God.... I just don't get it.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Hepburn
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:27:43 PM new
mybidness, even though I see you are upset and angry, I have to go with what Pocono said. All that matters is that the parents get grief counseling. What the church and the grandmother say or think or do is on THEM. Telling them what you think might make you feel better, but it wont change their minds, ya know? And it will only make your blood pressure rise for naught. What goes around, comes around. Let them believe/think what they will, as obviously they are doing, and concentrate on how you can perhaps assist the parents in finding peace themselves.
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Hepburn
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:30:29 PM new
BTW..I found out long ago that set minds cannot be changed. Would do no good to berate them for what they believe is truth. Pious they are, and right in their own minds. Brick wall there, and no beating will make it come down. BUT..if you wanna let er rip, go for it. Just dont expect any lights to go off in their heads that "gee, maybe we ARE wrong".
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maddienicks
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:30:42 PM new
Another reason I'm not too big on "organized" religion.
I'm sad to hear this, and even sadder that I am not surprised.
I hear you, wanting to let these people have it, but it won't do any good. They are already "better" than anyone who may disagree with them, and while it may make you feel better, in the long run, you are the better person to rise above it.
I wonder, tho...if instead of visiting the church, if you just made an appt with the pastor? Tell him what you have heard (but not who you heard it from!) and how disappointing it is to you, and that this is the reason you have felt the need to "protect" your own children from organized religion. The outcome could be interesting...it could be that the entire thing has been taken out of context. It could be that it has been embellished each time it is told...the preacher's wife may have simply been praying for the child. (I'm being devil's advocate here. I live in a little bitty town where the churches are the biggest and bestest gossip centers, and often times, things are not what they seem!) And if in fact things went down as you heard, you will have the opportunity to tell him WHY you don't attend services, and why you never will.
I'd be spitting nails too. Good luck, whatever road you choose.
Kris
[email protected]
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:31:23 PM new
Hepburn I know you're all right about it... I know you are. But, I keep wondering how many times they've done that kind of thing to other families.
And, yes it would definitely make me feel better to tell them what I think. You and Pocono and the rest are right. But, couldn't you at least entertain the idea so I can fantasize a bit about what I'd say. I've replayed it a million times in my head today. And, it always starts with "HOW DARE YOU."
Yes, what goes around comes around but it's so frustrating.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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nettak
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:31:46 PM new
Mybid, I will tell you why I said to let it go.
Many years ago when my daughter was small and seriously ill, my sister in law used to ring me up and pray at me over the phone, she told me that the devil was punishing me and my child for some terrible thing that I must have done at some time. She also used to come over with a friend and pray at me. I told her many time not to do this but she would not give up and it seemed the more I complained the worse it got.
I hated her, you know I really did hate her and I wished all sorts of bad things would happen to her and her cohorts. Who were they to tell me that we were being punished by god and that the devil was hurting my child (she was only 3 at the time)
I even went along with her to her church and argured with these people to no avail, I have found that all the anger in the world does you no good. These people will think they are better and that they know more than you. It will not matter one little bit what you have to say, and you may only end up being more upset than you are right now.
I would still like to smack them though, so I am with you on that one. 
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Hepburn
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:36:21 PM new
Wise words, nettak. Mybiddness...if you have to purge yourself, then write down all you want to say, then seal it up in an envelope and then toss it in the trash. Or, if you REALLY want to get in their faces, do it. But do it with a bang. In church, during prayer. Or how about marching in with a big sign over your head of "Judge not lest ye be judged" or some other form of scripture of intolerance, lol. (sorry..I know its not a laughing matter, but if you are going to go for it, might as well help you dream of what COULD be done)
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nettak
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:39:39 PM new
Hepburn, this is not a funny thing, so why am I laughing at you post.
Mybid, go for the sign, in the middle of the service. That will attract a lot of attention, and they will have to answer your questions.
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gravid
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:40:33 PM new
What? - You mean that they did not say that God took her because he needed another little angel?
I never could figure out why God could not come up with a neater way of collecting angels than crushing little girls under the wheels of a semi - but hey what do I know about theology? The way I read the Bible there were angels before people so it seems people don't have to die to keep the angel supply up.
But then if they blamed this one on God I guess it would weaken the case against the parents.
What possible chance do you have of changing the thinking of anyone that stupid?
Do what I do - refuse to have anything to do with people like that. Don't socialize or do business with them and if anyone tries to get you to deal with them tell them you don't have anything to do with no account trash.
Edited to add: If she was praying out load it was not a prayer - it was a speech.
[ edited by gravid on Mar 23, 2001 06:42 PM ]
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Zazzie
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:41:14 PM new
----write them an anonymous letter and tell them that you had heard of how the grieving parents had been treated by them (the pastor and the wife) and because of it--it has made you finalize your decision to join a Wiccan religion---you and your family of 8..
heheheheh
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Hepburn
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:49:42 PM new
I like these suggestions, lol. Wiccans. Very good. Maybe go in to the church during services and chant while moving up the aisles? Or better yet, you had a vision. An angel spoke to you, and sayeth that you were to tell the parishoners that God was watching them and was not pleased?
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 06:51:38 PM new
Nettak That's so awful - I really can't imagine. I know you're right. I've tried to talk to zealots before and they always walk away believing that they're somehow holier than the rest of the population. I can't believe your own sister in law treated you that way. Well, I believe it but isn't it ridiculous.
Kris I didn't stop to think about the fact that it could have been distorted along the way. I don't know the family or the grandmother. I've seen the pastor and his wife and always thought they seemed a little too uppity - so I'm probably biased going in. I'll sleep on this one for a few days but I think it's an excellent idea to wait til I've calmed down and then possibly talk to the pastor one on one in the exact way you suggest.
Hepburn Yes, I'm fantasizing a big ole sign "JUDGE NOT - you bunch of freegin morons"... something like that. I'll march down the middle aisle with my kids following behind me.
Gravid I think you hit the nail right on the head. It sounded to me like they were each giving a self-righteous speech instead of a real prayer. I do believe in the power of real prayer and that's why this type of thing just slayyyyyys me.
I do like the anonymous letter idea too Zazzie.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:10:25 PM new
Sometimes the evil have a way of turning folks against God... under the guise of an apostle.
When my son was dying, God was all I had between sanity and insanity.
Just remember that God is in the heart, not in the church. There's a big difference between beleiving in God, and beleiving in religion.
Oh, and Kris? Thanks for the email today
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:20:41 PM new
Pocono Thanks for sharing that and for knocking me back to the real world and what's really important in life. You're so right... God is in the heart - not in the church. I'm sorry to hear that you've lost a son. Hugs to you.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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nettak
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:23:45 PM new
just remember that God is in the heart, not in the church
Pocono you are so right on this one.
Mybid, you have a wonderful heart and it shines through with your posts. Your compassion is better than any of those zealots. I believe that I have been taught a huge life lesson, my daughter's illness has not been in vain, and it was not the devils doing, as some would have us believe.
I believe that it has shown my family compassion for others, I also think that it has made me a much stronger and better person.
[ edited by nettak on Mar 23, 2001 07:24 PM ]
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:25:16 PM new
my: I'm sorry if you misunderstood.
My son DID live! He was saved by two men that I will never forget. Two fantastic Dr.'s in Europe.
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Zazzie
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:26:21 PM new
if you want to see a church that is out of control when it comes to a child's death ---go on a search for 'Westboro Baptist Church' and then click on the picture of the young boy at the bottom of the page.
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Hepburn
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:34:10 PM new
OMG. Why does it shock me? Look at the spanish inquisition. All in the name of God. He must be totally disgusted in the Human Race.
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mybiddness
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:40:02 PM new
Pocono DON'T BE SORRY! I'M ELATED TO KNOW THAT I MISUNDERSTOOD! WOOOHOOOOOO! Hey - you can even keep the hug and I don't give them out very often.
Nettak Thanks for being so sweet. I agree with you that sometimes pain can open up realms of compassion and understanding that we didn't even know were possible. I can't imagine the kind of strength it must take to go through what you've been through. But, I look back at some of the things that have happened in my life and I realize that I wouldn't be as strong as I am or as compassionate of others pain if I hadn't taken a dive into the depths of hell myself. I guess it's a peculiar kind of trade-off.
Zazzie I'm going to check out that site now. I hope you're not getting my blood pressure any higher than it already is.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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Pocono
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posted on March 23, 2001 07:41:10 PM new
oh brother... zaz, that is incredible.
Thanks My, I WILL keep it
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[ edited by Pocono on Mar 23, 2001 07:44 PM ]
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