posted on April 6, 2001 01:43:25 PM new
Ok, here's the scenario. My wife and I have 9 month old twin boys and we live in Southern California. For nine months we've been hearing variations of "you've got to get those boys in television." So my wife made some phone calls and we decided to take the boys into an agency which places kids in commercials, TV, movies, etc. Well, the boys were a smash hit with the agency folk who explained that identical twins are in serious demand by producers since they can use one for several hours then switch to the other or if one is acting up then switch to the other, etc.
So my wife and I think "why not" and allow the agency to shop the boys to various producers and such. Our original intentions were that maybe they would get to do a print ad or something and then the boys would be able to look at the ad when they're much older and think that it was neat.
Now, however, we've become aware of the rather serious amount of money that the boys could make if they were to do a commercial or anything else in TV. All of a sudden thoughts like "that could pay for their college education" have krept into our minds.
So my question basically is what is your opinion of children, especially young babies, being "put to work" (for lack of a better expression)? Obviously the money is a consideration but I don't want to be blinded by it.
posted on April 6, 2001 02:24:23 PM new
and... it sounds like they wanted them first time out. Speaks to me like "meant to be" and way different from traipsing them all over town hawking them.
Obviously @ less than a YO, a parent will be with them at all times so I don't see any harm at all.
posted on April 6, 2001 02:46:35 PM new
The question is can you or your wife drop your other activities or job and spend the time to take these kids to the shoots?
It may be that once you have your foot in the door it will lead to some more serious work when they are older.
posted on April 6, 2001 03:16:18 PM new
Thanks for the responses.
VM, thats what my wife thinks as well. If they seemed unhappy, then forget it.
gravid, since having the boys, my wife works two nights a week. She's a labor and delivery nurse and works the night shift. But you bring up a good point because we're not sure at this point how the logistics would work out over a period of days or weeks. Taking the boys out and keeping them out all day is a lot of work.
spaz, not sure if you're serious or not but I have thought about that issue. Since we began looking into this, we discovered that as of January 2000, parents are required to set up what is called a "Coogan Trust" for any minor children who work in the entertainment business. Coogan Trusts are blocked trusts which the parents cannot access and which the minor child cannot access until they reach 18. A certain percentage of whatever the child makes must be deposited into the Coogan Trust. In fact, the money is directly deposited into the trusts so the parents can't touch it. But, only a certain percentage must be deposited so greed can become an issue.
posted on April 6, 2001 03:35:57 PM new
While they're small and unaware...I see no harm. Later...say at three or so...I'd quit. This kind of overweening attention can't be good for young ones...
posted on April 6, 2001 04:05:20 PM newspaz, so obviously, you're against the idea of babies and kids working in the entertainment field. I'd be interested in hearing more of why you feel that way. I'm trying to weigh the potential benefits (i.e. a college fund) against the negatives. My desire is not to exploit my boys so that I can have a new car or attain some sort of status. But that is a very real perception that comes into play in this situation and is something that needs to be considered.
I must admit that at this point, I'm leaning twords going for it but am not totally set in that view. So any arguements "against" the idea are welcome.
Of course, all this assumes that our boys would actually be chosen for a "job." At this point, we haven't brought them to any auditions or whatever you call it when producers want to see your babies.
posted on April 6, 2001 04:14:03 PM newVM, that is certainly the truth. I doubt we would have even considred the idea if our boys weren't social. We take them out a lot and being identical, they got a lot of attention from strangers at the parks or malls or wherever. They seem to love it when people come up to them as they always smile and laugh (especially at the ladies!). They also interact well with other babies. My wife belongs to a Mothers of Multiples club which meets every week so they are exposed to other babies regularly. However, watching them interact with each other is out of this world. It is an amazing thing to see them playing with the same toy, smiling at each other, chatting with each other in some kind of secret language and on and on and on. I can only imagine what it must be like to be an identical twin and must admit that watching them develop these past nine months has been extrodinary.
[ edited by fiset on Apr 6, 2001 04:15 PM ]
posted on April 6, 2001 04:22:36 PM new
You know - you aren't talking about sexualizing your kids here. For the record, to me you sound proud and that is all.
There is no doubt that some kids are born to perform.
Other kids are born to win the spelling bee and no one dogs those parents. VeryModern Space Junk
posted on April 6, 2001 04:28:53 PM new
and right now, all you are talkin' is a picture of your kids toddlin' in a diaper. If it advances you can re-evaluate.
posted on April 6, 2001 04:47:50 PM newthey can use one for several hoursthen switch to the other
I'm going to be a dissenter here, fiset. Your twins are 9 months old. Their developmental tasks right now are to learn about their environment, and learn trust vs. mistrust. The several hours at a time would give me pause right there.
posted on April 6, 2001 05:21:33 PM new
snowy picked up on the exact sentence I did:
they can use one for several hours then switch to the other
To put babies into an environment where they are used like machines that run down after a few hours of usage is sick, IMHO. It's exploitation. It's not cute. They are not performing -- they can't perform, they're too young to understand the concept.
As for the attention factor, as identical twins they are in for a rough ride as it is through childhood and life. To possibly add to their list of stresses -- and kids in front of the camera face a lot of them, including early obsolescence and rejection once they outgrow the qualities that initially endear them to advertisers or whoever -- is irresponsible and selfish.
Personally, I doubt you'd walk away from it once they hit the age of three or four as someone above suggested. Once you're on that gravy train, it's hard to jump off. The attention they receive, the nature of the jobs they receive as they get older, will encourage them NOT to be individuals. It will reinforce a mindset that like bookends they are worthless alone, that their real value lies in the fact that they are twins. They're going to get enough of that from society alone as they grow up -- they don't need a paying, high profile job that relies on them being twins to complicate the struggle towards self-identity.
posted on April 6, 2001 05:32:56 PM new
Wow, thanks for the feedback!
mint4you, I think that is an outstanding idea. As you may have guessed, we shoot plenty of video of the boys so I think shooting video of the parents talking about how we feel, etc. so that we can look at it for perspective makes a lot of sense. I'll talk to my wife about that tonight.
VM, you got the idea that we're proud of our boys did ya? Without a doubt.
toke, "show me the money," eh? Certainly the financial aspect plays a part. I'd be a liar if I said differently. Ever since they were born I've spent a lot of time planning for the future in terms of opening a college fund and other savings accounts for them. I, of course, want to provide for them as best as I can and the expense (even now) of having twins is extreme.
snowyegret, I understand what you're saying. According to law, they can only work a maximum of four hours a day. Although that doesn't sound like much, four hours is a huge amount of time in their lives right now. During any given four hour period (other than when they go down for the night), they have a meal, take a nap and play with each other. Having them work for a full four hour stretch wouldn't be right at this point. We will not sacrafice their routine to such an extent that it would require they miss naps, etc. My wife and I are religious about our son's routines so if major deviation of those routines was required, I don't think we could take the job. Consequently, we may miss an opportunity but so be it.
posted on April 6, 2001 05:37:17 PM newspaz, I just saw your post as I think we were posting at the same time. You make some interesting points that I want to respond to and will a bit later as its time for me to go home. I especially want to discuss the "rough ride" the boys are in for. Thank you for responding in depth.
posted on April 6, 2001 05:50:38 PM new
No problem, fiset. And I want to stress that by my comments I mean no offense to you personally. You asked for opinions about a situation, and the situation is what I'm responding to.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:25:11 PM newfiset The positive side is that because of the fact that you have identical twins they'll probably be offered a wider variety of opportunities to choose from. Years ago a family friend had 3 daughters (two identical twins) that did print work for catalogs, etc. Her older daughter decided to quit when she was around 8 years old. The twins stayed at it and loved it so much that they're likely still doing it.
The parents were extremely careful about the number and kinds of jobs that they allowed their daughters to take. You sound a lot like these parents were. They evaluated every offer very carefully - examined what it would require both in time and energy from the daughters individually and from the family as a whole and then based their decisions on those answers. When the older daughter began to show a disinterest they immediately supported her in her decision.
Some kids really are complete hams and actually thrive on attention. You seem to be a very intune parent. If you do decide to do it I'd just be careful to monitor it closely and take it one day at a time.
As for the money. Even though I don't think it should be a factor in making the decision I don't see anything wrong with the fact that these kids can be set up pretty well financially while fairly young. My friends daughters each had well over $100,000.00 in the bank at a very young age. I'm sure it has given them much broader options as to their college educations then a lot of kids have.
Good luck to you! Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
posted on April 7, 2001 11:44:15 PM new
This is not an all-or-nothing situation. As Mybiddness mentioned, you can be very selective regarding accepting jobs and setting limits. You can accept an occasional print job or very short term project without turning them into MaryKate and Ashley. As long as they enjoy it and it isn't detrimental to their education or well being, why not go for it?
OTOH I do have a problem with "child stars". It's difficult enough in our media crazed society to raise a child with good grasp of reality without putting them smack in the middle of the crazyness.
My suggestion, if you decide to do it, is to write down priorities and limits and stick to them.
posted on April 9, 2001 05:08:01 PM new
Silly me, actually thinking I would get a chance to post last weekend when both our boys are cutting their top teeth. Needless to say (then why say it?) it was a hectic weekend.
First, thanks for all your responses. I printed this thread so that I could discuss some of the issues raised with my wife. I told her that she should join AW so that she could particiapte in the discussion and perhaps she will (in about 18 years!)
Anyway, what we've decided to do at this point is evaluate each offer (assuming we get any) on a case by case basis and determine whether or not we think it would be adverse to the boys development. Spaz, the points you made are not lost on me. In fact, my wife and I spent considerable time discussing your post and the issues you presented. I, too, am not comfortable with the notion that my boys will be used until they "run down." If the job called for one twin to be on camera or used for four hours and then wisk the other on camera for another four hours, we'd say no to the job. On the other hand, I don't have a real problem with them posing for photos to be used in print ads or the like as a significant portion of their days are spent hamming it up for our cameras as it is. Realistically, if they get any offers it will probably be from the print media and we've decided that we would be receptive to the idea.
As for whether we would walk away from this kind of thing or not - I'm not really in a position to intelligently evaluate that. There are several factors which will need to be considered, none of which we've experienced yet. Obviously, the overall happiness and development of our sons comes before all other considerations.
As for the attention they may receive and the encouragement to not be individuals - well, that is a subject that my wife and I talk about regularly (and have since before they were born). Its our job as their parents to instill values in our children and even now we encourage their individuality. While there may be a certain mindset or perception among hollywood people that twins are more desirable because there are two and for the producers purposes they are like bookends, I feel that I will have failed as a parent if my boys would disregard all the reinforcement they receive from my wife and I to the contrary. I do not expect any hollywood or media people to raise my boys. At the same time, I do not plan to shelter them from experiences solely because other people might see them as bookends. Maybe my wife and I are naive (and only time will tell) but we feel like we'll be the ones who influence our boys the most.
Lastly, I just wanted to touch on the rough ride for twins issue. This is difficult to verbalize but I'll try. As much as we encourage the individual natures of our boys, we also understand that they have a closeness and bond that is very special. In our opinion it would be wrong to down-play that closeness (I'm not explaining myself very well here). In other words, my wife and I perform a juggling act by encouring individuality but also not stomping out the truly wonderous aspect of their lives that they will always share. Awww, I can't explain this. (And I know nobody is asking me to!)
Ok, bottom line is we're going to allow our boys to work in a limited capacity unless we decide not to allow it! Clear as mud, eh?
posted on April 10, 2001 02:20:04 PM new
Please remember that children become a product of their environments. I have a retail store and my girls spend alot of time at it. Consequently they are very happy to interact with adults as much as (if not more so than) children. Because they see their father and I in a leadership role as boss, they tend to become the leader in most situations as well. My oldest daughter's preschool teacher told me she had to really work with my daughter to get her down to the level of a child. (Not meant in any way to be a cutdown).
My three year old has the looks (and the hair) of Shirley Temple with a personality to match. I am often told she, too, should do commercials. If I lived in your area I probably would think about it a bit harder. As it is, those opportunites do not surface very often around here.
As long as one of their parents are there to see to their well being I think everything will be OK. You know your children better than anyone else. If you see warning signs, all you have to do is stop. Until then, you might be able to build up a nest egg that may someday enable them to be doctors ... or lawyers ... or anything they choose to be.
Just because their childhood may be different from others does it make it wrong? I do not think so.
Best of wishes to you. AND if they do make it to print, please let me know. I would love to see it! Oh, and if you run into Mary-Kate and Ashley could you get their autographs for my daughters? lol
Without a doubt.