mrpotatoheadd
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posted on June 8, 2001 11:35:59 AM new
A man brandishing a knife burst into an elementary school on Friday and slashed nearly two dozen people, killing at least eight children, in Japan's worst mass-killing since a deadly nerve gas attack on Tokyo's subways six years ago.
Police said the attacker, identified as Mamoru Takuma, carried a 6-inch kitchen knife. He was arrested at the scene, but was taken to a hospital — reportedly with self-inflicted injuries. He was turned over to police about an hour later.
http://wire.ap.org/APnews/main.html?PACKAGEID=japan
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 11:50:57 AM new
Crime is escalating there and strict gun laws mean most of the attacks are committed with knives.
That's very interesting.
Helen
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:01:36 PM new
Hello MrPotatoHeadd - Such a shame and a shock for the parents and children who felt safe in their schools.
It was not immediately clear what motivated the attack, although police in Ikeda said the man told them he had taken 10 times his daily dose of an unspecified anti-depressant.
An Osaka police official said Takuma had told police that he wanted to be put to death and that he had previously tried to commit suicide.
Takuma was arrested in March 1999 and accused of spiking the tea of four teachers with tranquilizers at the school where he worked, but he was never prosecuted because he suffered from psychological problems.
No, people who want to hurt others, don't need guns to do so.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:05:11 PM new
Anything can be classified as a weapon if you use it as one. I'm surprised they don't want to outlaw baseball bats.
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:06:31 PM new
Now, they may need to control knives.
Helen
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zilvy
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:09:47 PM new
Bobbi you are of course right, however, had the man had a gun he could have done much more damage from a far and perhaps not have been caught. Although, it would seem, based on the article, it was his intention to commit suicide by police! Twisted as always no matter what the weapon.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:17:04 PM new
Yeah Helen, but how would they control kitchen knives?
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:40:08 PM new
bobbi355
That will indeed be a tough job.
Helen
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 12:41:21 PM new
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gravid
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:20:05 PM new
Actually almost all states HAVE a set of laws about how big a knive you can carry before it is considered a concealed weapon. It is just not common to have people use a knive for serious harm when guns are so easy to get, but in other parts of the world machetes and cane knives are very common for people to carry.
The Japanese have much more of a tradition of edged weapons as an instrument of assasination. They also have people who have phobias about them. Most people here have never seen what a sharp knive can do because meatcutters and chefs are about the only people who ever see a really sharp knive.
A properly sharpened Japanese sword can cut through a whole group of 4 or 5 - 3inch dia. wooden posts on the diagonal without feeling any resistance. a common mistake for new people trying this exercise is to swing too hard expecting resistance and when there is none they strike the ground.
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gravid
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:25:42 PM new
Brought to mind another story. A friend had a small folding knive with about a 2 inch blade and they would not let him take it on an airliner. He finally abandoned it to the guards to make his flight. The story was that they considered it more dangerous than usual because a small section on the rear of the blade was serrated. After all the disagreement and frustration he got on the plane - took off and they brought him a 4 inch long serrated knive to use to eat his meal.
He said he felt like beating his head on the wall.
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tinkerismyname
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:47:21 PM new
An excellent example of stupidity in action, gravid. Suppose the person on the plane had used one of their own knives to carry out an evil plan? Would passengers soon be expected to eat with their fingers?
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uaru
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:57:04 PM new
I'm surprised they don't want to outlaw baseball bats.
I've got several Randall 'fighting' knives, and I'd feel outclassed if I was to have to use them against someone armed with a "Louisville Slugger."
I remember a going through an airport security once with a friend that had some darts in his carry-on bag. I was allowed to carry my 3 1/2" folding knife but they told him darts weren't allowed. My friend looked at them and said, "You think I'm going to hijack a plane with 3 darts? Are you stupid, ignorant, or intoxicated?"
It is a big mistake to challenge someone bored out of their mind making a minimum wage with some authority. They escorted him away. When he showed up at the gate later the veins in his head were really standing out. I waited till a couple days later before teasing him about it.
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gravid
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:20:28 PM new
The last time I was feed on a plane it was so bad I might just pass up the chance next time with fingers or with fork.
It is silly because it is so easy if you really determained. They can only stop the stupid.
If you really wanted a weapon on a plane it would take me about 15 minutes with a band saw and a hand grinder to make a big serrated dagger from a piece of lexan that would go right through security. taped on your arm.
A projectile weapon would be harder but I can see two possibilities. A black powder pistol with a kevlar/resin wrapped teflon barrel and glass bead shot loads. Breaks open like a shot gun to load. Or a plastic guide tube pistol feed with ceramic lined plastic tube rockets with a rubber based propellant. Neither need nitrogen compounds that can be smelled by chemical detectors. The rocket design would be easier to make a semi-auto repeater with detachable magazine for reloading. Piezoelectric ignition would use very little electronics which could be hidden in a pager or cell phone. In fact a cell phone body would make an ideal housing with a clamp on handle for grips and a laser aiming system built in so you don't need sights. A travel clock or voltage convertor would make a good grip clamped on to make an L shape. The rockets would be higher velocity than the glass shot but less mass so you might want to put shaped explosive tips on them that only activate when the rear of the projectile enters the target. Keeps them from depressurizing the cabin if you miss they detonate outword after making a small neat hole but if you hit your target they detonate about 3 inches deep. The rocket would not work at point blank however - you probably need a couple foot for it to finish it's burn to terminal velocity. If I can think of it so easy surely some resourceful terrorist with money would have no trouble. Probably take a couple hundred hours to do neat reliable package and a extra couple hundred hours to refine the rockets for optimum nozzle shape and a graduated burn cast propellant that spins the round also.
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zilvy
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:37:23 PM new
Ginsu's gotta go...to sharp and pointy and too many rip offs sold on ebay, easily available to the common man should only be sold to Samurai chef's of the highest standing.
Most assuredly should not be allowed on airlines, protestors could definitely slash tires and render landing unsafe, given the lack of quality food being served (peanuts in a bag) they don't need to issue knives.
Safety first. Then we can address lethal spit balls made with those awful rolls they serve on occasion.
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gravid
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:55:26 PM new
Last winter they stranded several full plane loads of people here at Detroit Metro in a snow storm and then could not get them back to the gate. They had no food no water and the toilets were full to overflowing. I forget how long - at least 8 hours. There were people calling the police on their cell phones demanding to get off the planes and they sued for false imprisonment when they were done. Don't know how that is progressing. When you treat lawyers and business executives like that you know they are not going to say "Oh forget it."
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uaru
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:16:15 PM new
On airport security I think I've had as wild an experience as you could have.
In the early 80's I was flying from Anchorage to Shreveport. I was carrying a Browning Hi-Power in my check in baggage (totally legal, hard case with a lock on it and declared at the check-in counter.) I had to change planes in Houston to a commuter airlines to get to Shreveport. No problem I get my suitcase and head to the check-in counter. Suddenly I find there is a problem, because of limited counter space in the mail terminal the check-in counter for the commuter airlines was down in one of the concourses, PAST the airport security gate. I walked up to the security gate and told the security officer I needed to check my baggage in at the Del Rio commuter counter and there was a handgun in my suitcase. The officer told me to go ahead and put the suitcase through the x ray machine.
Of course the x-ray machine saw I was telling the truth, there was a Browning Hi-Power in the case. Immediately two armed guards come walking at a very quick step to the scene. The security officer tells me to open the suitcase and pull the slide back and lock it, and remove the clip from the pistol. Normally this isn't a problem, but when you have two security guards standing behind you with their hands on their weapons you really start moving in slow motion. I'm suspect if a child's balloon had popped while I was locking the slide and removing the clip I'd have become swiss cheese. All the while on the other side of the concourse people are passing through the other security gate looking at me thinking, they caught one.
The officers were cool and friendly after I got the clip out and showed there was no ammo, they escorted me to the Del Rio check-in counter and after I had checked my suitcase they wished me well and left. I believe that was the last time I ever traveled with a weapon. It is far too unnerving to handle a pistol when others are prepared to fire on you.
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tinkerismyname
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posted on June 8, 2001 09:03:20 PM new
Gravid-
Being a good ole boy, I thought I knew alot about blackpowder and firearms and such, but man YOU ROCK!!
You kind of scare me a little,too. LOL.
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jlpiece
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posted on June 9, 2001 02:05:48 AM new
"Bobbi you are of course right, however, had the man had a gun he could have done much more damage from a far and perhaps not have been caught."-zilvy
Really? Could you please tell us the last perpetrator of a school massacre that didn't get caught? I'm also curious if you could name any school massacre here in the most violent society on earth, with more dead - other than Columbine which had 2 assailants - Cause I don't remember any.
This perfectly illustrates that it isn't the guns (or the knives), but the determination of the perpetrator to carry out his/her plan.
More people are killed by assailants with their bare hands( in this world every year(Outside of a few major war time years) than by any other means.
Perhaps we should ban hands, too?
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gravid
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posted on June 9, 2001 03:46:53 AM new
jlpiece - How true it is 90% attitude not weapons.
Examples I have seen - An older gentleman had a young fellow try to rob him as he left his grocery store for the evening and he beat the snot out of the kid with a bag of rolled coins. Busted his glasses and took away his wallet so police could ID him. They pulled up and arrested him a half hour latter at home but immediatly transported him to the hospital.
At an Italian restaurant another customer had a little too much to drink was making comments about the way a biker was dressed and tatooed. Finally when he could not bait the guy into reacting he pulled out this silly little palm pistol to threaten him - not sure if it was a .25 or a .32. The biker told him "I am going to give you one undeserved opportunity to put that stupid thing away." and the fellow shot him. The biker proceeded to take three quick steps over and grab this fellow around the neck with his left hand and started hitting him in the head with his right. Since his head could not rebound being firmly held by the neck it was pretty ugly. Within 2 or 3 punches the guy was unconscience and dropped his little pistol which he had been too shocked to even shoot again. The biker was so pissed that he took the guy by the wrist as he went down to again keep him from bouncing away and used his boots to bust the guys ribs before coming back to his table. "Well that sure as hell spoiled dinner" He said. "Who wants to drive me to the hospital?" He survived after surgery. The shooter survived also but was never able to walk right again and lost his law suit against the biker. The jury seemed to feel it was self defence.
I one time was confronted with a fellow who tried to rob me with a knive and when I refused he tried to stick me in the gut but ended up with it stuck in my left wrist where I still carry a scar. I came up with an elbow and caught him under the chin and put him down but he tried to get back up so i kicked him in the side which made him roll away. This resulted in the strangest fight I have ever been in because this fellow insisted on trying to get back up and I kept kicking him when he would get back to his hands and knees. It was more like a soccar game than a fight because we worked our way almost a block down the street. It would have been a LOT easier on him if he had stayed down but finally he let go of the knive and rolled over on his back and stayed down. I took the knive over to the curb and broke the blade off and left. The cut was not too bad but my ankle was sore and swollen for a month from the kicking.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 9, 2001 04:08 AM ]
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zilvy
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posted on June 9, 2001 06:26:27 AM new
Jl not knowing the marksmanship of the potential shooter, would you rather dodge a bullet or a frenzied guy with a 6" knife? I don't have written statistics but will use common sense and say that in a crowd or school situation I would prefer to take my chances for survival against the fool with the 6" knife.
I'll be sure to jazz this thread "UP" after another week or so....since that seems to be your forte and we want you to be 
By the way, the hopped up psycho's plan was as I stated earlier (based on the news report) to commit suicide by POLICE!!
[ edited by zilvy on Jun 9, 2001 06:28 AM ]
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gravid
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posted on June 9, 2001 11:19:55 AM new
He would have had a lot better luck commiting suicide that way in Detroit. We had some Detroit cops last year blow away a retarded guy who was armed with a garden rake. Not taking any chances there.....
When I was in High School I worked at a restaurant where the owner had a lady come in late every morning and prepare salads. That's all she would do - no other work, and after about 3 hours she would go home. She brought this huge German knive about 18 inches long and a steel to sharpen it every day and took it home with her in a flat leather case with pockets. She would not use a food processor type machine at all. In about ten minutes she would make six heads of cabbage into cole slaw of just the perfect cut. She would flash through cut after cut shaving a 1/16th of an inch off at a time so fast it was a blur. She said a machine bruised instead of cutting clean and made the slaw go mushy real fast.
She was a black lady who lived in a rough area and we always joked that some fool was going to try to mug her when she took the bus home one day and that he would end up looking like a pile of shaved ham in the deli case.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 9, 2001 12:05 PM ]
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jlpiece
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posted on June 9, 2001 12:27:06 PM new
zilvy, if you can not answer the question, just simply move on. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
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jlpiece
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posted on June 9, 2001 12:32:44 PM new
Not to mention, guns do run out of bullets. Knives take a little longer to run out of sharpness.
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zilvy
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posted on June 9, 2001 12:49:49 PM new
But fools run out of breath! Thank you for your input.
Jl says:
More people are killed by assailants with their bare hands( in this world every year(Outside of a few major war time years) than by any other means.
Would you be able to supply pertinent information in regard to that statement?
Motor vehicles and guns seem to be at the top for methods used to kill based on news reports...but then I don't listen to the "Good Time News" so maybe I missed the bare hands report!!
[ edited by zilvy on Jun 9, 2001 12:57 PM ]
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jlpiece
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posted on June 9, 2001 03:29:19 PM new
Worldwide, my dear zilvy. The world is not limited to your neighborhood. For future reference though, please refrain from addressing me personally as I find it offensive. Please remember to address the topic at hand, and if oyu have any questions about moderation, please address it in an email.
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zilvy
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posted on June 9, 2001 03:39:17 PM new
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joice
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posted on June 9, 2001 03:41:58 PM new
zilvy and jlpiece please discuss the subject and not each other.
Thanks for your cooperation,
Joice
[email protected]
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joice
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posted on June 9, 2001 03:43:04 PM new
jlpiece are you the moderator on duty? If so, I guess I can go home now!
Joice
[email protected]
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immykidsmom
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posted on June 9, 2001 05:39:49 PM new
...... a rabbit bit me on the arm once. It hurt and I have a scar. Let's outlaw rabbits.
(mom, the coward)
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