posted on June 9, 2001 04:10:40 PM newWhere the line is etched could help determine control of the U.S. House in the 2002 elections. Republicans, who hold a nine-seat margin, think they can gain at least one seat in Oregon, and possibly two, with district boundaries redrawn.
Although local, this is the wave of things to come for the nation. The GOP has decided that if the majority of voters don't want them in power -- too damned bad! The GOP is going to put as many UNELECTED Republicans into positions of power over the vote and the objections of the people as is possible - all UNAMERICAN and Fascist. A recent CNN report covered the national GOP move to redraw the districts in order to gain more seats. This is likely going to happen to you in your state soon. What will you do about it?
posted on June 9, 2001 04:54:03 PM new
It already happened in Michigan, where many districts in Detroit were gerrymandered by the then controlling Democrats. This isn't a new game.
Redistricting occurs each and every 10 years, following a census, and yes, all political parties have an interest in gaining as much power (seats) as possible. This is nothing new, and is not just the GOP by-passing the voters' will. If you think Dem's don't try to sway things to their advantage, you need to take your blinders off. For example:
posted on June 9, 2001 05:04:07 PM new
One other thing...could it be reasonable to assume that perhaps the Ore. Republican plan has some merits?
In para's is 1991, others 2001
Facts: State House (32D, 28R) 33R, 27D
State Senate (20D, 10R) 16R, 14D
US Rep (4D, 1R) 4D, 1R
Notice the wave from the left to the right? Maybe the state should be represented by another Republican. Looks like that's what the voters have said over the past ten years.
v/r
Deuce
edited for clarity, spacing didn't work.
[ edited by deuce on Jun 9, 2001 05:05 PM ]
Redistricting occurs each and every 10 years, following a census, and yes, all political parties have an interest in gaining as much power (seats) as possible. This is nothing new, and is not just the GOP by-passing the voters' will. If you think Dem's don't try to sway things to their advantage, you need to take your blinders off.
Silly Republicans! Aren't you the ones who are supposed to be the party that has superoir morals? Aren't you the party who, when Ronald Reagan was going for re-election, the entire GOP campaign theme was The Pledge of Allegiance and for Bush, Sr., it was Don't Burn The Flag? Isn't the Republican Party supposed to be taking the High Road? Where's the Lead By Example? Is this the sort of display of Democracy In Action that "conservativism" espouses?
I'm amazed that you start a thread, are challenged, and you come back with this stuff?
I challenge you to show me, in regards to redistricting, how the Dems have "led by example"?
Aren't you the party who, when Ronald Reagan was going for re-election, the entire GOP campaign theme was The Pledge of Allegiance and for Bush, Sr., it was Don't Burn The Flag? No
posted on June 9, 2001 10:26:54 PM new
There have been several bills introduced spottily around the country by democrats seeking a fairness in districting. Their arguments follow closely upon those presented here:
posted on June 9, 2001 11:21:47 PM new
Deuce, either you have the High Road, or you don't. Trying to divert attention away from how slimy the Republican Pary is by pointing at the useless Democrats and stooping as low as the competition doesn't impress me in the least. At least the Democratic Party hasn't been sticking their noses in the air about how superior their positition is. I challange you to put your money where your mouth is.
"I'm amazed that you start a thread, are challenged, and you come back with this stuff?"
Actually, you just don't get it. When you get handed your marching orders, Deuce, do you require a full explanation from your superiors? Or is their confidence in your ability to perceive the intent and meaning of those orders well placed? I can't believe that the topic of this thread escapes understanding -- I thought I was being quite clear.
posted on June 10, 2001 03:51:34 AM new
I'd love to address this topic, Sara, but I just don't get it.
Borillar
Normally, when I get my orders, they are quite clear. You started off, once again, on a anti-Republican rant; national GOP move to redraw the districts in order to gain more seats. It was pointed out this is/was nothing new, and by selecting only one regional piece, you skewed the issue. Not a single person who replied denied that Republican don't try to take advantage when this comes up. Perhaps I read you incorrectly, but you opened up with your emotional anti-conservative rhetoric, and some reminded that this is normal activity in politics. If thus was not your intent, why do you not label this thread "Both the Democrats & Republicans..."
Obviously, I don't get it, so please, can you point it out? Please point out what I, and others, don't.
And BTW, please show me a single post where I have ever claimed to be on the high road?
posted on June 10, 2001 04:30:50 AM newIt will be a citizen's commission that represents our interests, not the politicians' interests. Join Republicans, Democrats and Independents from all over Arizona who are voting Yes on Proposition 106
"Agree 100% with the above.
By that you've agreed both that the practice of redistricting is done in the interest of politicians, not citizens, and that it is promoted by republicans.. Since the majority party in any redistricting effort has the opportunity for the greatest political gain, what is wrong with an "anti-republican rant" during a time of republican majority? That party has, by the words of their leader declared war on the democratic party, and the mechanisms used to prosecute that war include redistricting to their complete advantage wherever and whenever possible. If Borillar is shouting "The Redcoats are Coming!" in attempts to warn the citizenry of the dangers of republican party domination he should be applauded, not derided or ridiculed as he has been here. A thinking republican would do well to at least consider with all seriousness the information and viewpoints of persons such as borillar has shown himself to be. Above all, an ideolog should not be attacked by a purse string monitor.
posted on June 10, 2001 04:33:06 AM newDeuceAnd BTW, please show me a single post where I have ever claimed to be on the high road?
In Borillar's defense I should point out that you aren't spicing your posts with emotional rhetoric. It would be just as easy for you to say "Slimeball Democrats" or simply refer to them as "Socialist" or "Communists." You also failed to bring Clinton or Carter insults into the thread in some manner. On those points alone I feel that while you didn't profess to take the 'high road' you appear to be doing just that. You might not be fitting in Deuce. Work on it.
By agreeing, I'm saying redistricting should be done in a bi-partisan manner. Fair for all; nothing more, nothing less. If this bi-partisan committee's results favors the left, I realize the right would complain, and vice-versa.
...and that it is promoted by republicans Are you trying to say that this is a republican-only phenonmenon? If so, I have a different opinion.
What I do disagree with is a partisan state legislature, regardless of majority, redistricting in a political manner for the gain of their party.
what is wrong with an "anti-republican rant" during a time of republican majority? Nothing, I'm quite used to these. I just wanted to ensure another POV was shown.
A thinking republican would do well to at least consider with all seriousness the information and viewpoints of persons such as borillar has shown himself to be. If you think I don't give statements Borillar makes thought and consideration, you are wrong.
You're final remark was not received well by me. I'll never begin to change your opinion, and I won't begin to try.
posted on June 10, 2001 11:39:54 AM new
When I address the topic of a thread about the GOP, obviously I am making a generalization in a manner, simply because the GOP consists of more than one individual. When I "rant" about "Republicans" taking the High Road and droning on endlessly about a "Moral Compass" or "We're The MORAL Party!", it ought to be obvious that it can not address each and every individual of the Republican Party. So, if someone does insist on being counted with those who do make such statements, then that person would have to give a little leeway in figuring out if they are the exception to the rule or not. For instance, I am not a Democrat because I dislike how wrong they are doing things, although I do strongly believe in the Democratic Princilples of leveling the playing field, educating the ignorant, feeding the hunger, housing the homeless, and full health coverage for everyone, not just those in public service.
Does everyone understand that? Is that that not aboslutely clear? If not, admit your guilt and I'll try it again.
posted on June 10, 2001 12:02:11 PM new
Thank you, KRS, for stepping in with that explanation. Having seen the British landing troops in harbor, I am indeed the reincarnation of Paul Revere and am ringing the bell and trying to warn as much of the citizenry as will listen. Political Extremism is dangerous for our Democracy, whether it be towards the Right or the Left. America is made up of People, not businesses, corporations, and special interests that get legislation passed or rolled back that hurts the American People. Those who support the position that the American People are best served soley through the capitalistic ventures of major corporations are lacking facts to support their position; such positions often having their roots in funding through corporate lobbiests. And whether or not your position is an extreme one, placing someone with the mental state of a twelve year-old child into the most powerful position on earth creates a serious climate of danger and disaster. Some may have their political disagreements with capable, experienced, educated, stable candidates of the other party, but ppolitics is such that no agernda gets through without compromise that leads to moderation of any extemist agenda. Therefore, good judgement calls for Al Gore to have been the better choice and allowing the GOP held Congress and Senate to moderate the Leftist tendancies of an Al Gore administration, rather than the vain hope that an evil-minded twelve year-old child will somehow "rise to the occasion".
So, when you hear Paul Revere warning everyone about the British and you happen to be a Brit, maybe intlligent people ought to give pause and reflect upoon what they value most.
posted on June 10, 2001 01:12:24 PM new
Well, because of the recent census our local area and it's redistricting (?) meant we went from a Republican district to a democratic one. BUT the good news is our local State Representative is going to Washington to serve under President Bush. YAY Asa Hutchinson!! (Although we'll miss him.)
posted on June 12, 2001 10:51:06 AM new
I'm a Die Hard Democrat, but BOTH parties are guilty of this kind of behavour. And both Parties are going to try to get re-districting to come out in thier favor.
BUT the good news is our local State Representative is going to Washington to serve under President Bush. YAY Asa Hutchinson!! (Although we'll miss him.)