posted on June 11, 2001 01:36:18 PM new
Are there any singers here?
I'm just wondering if one has to be born with a naturally good singing voice or if it can be cultivated. I know voice control can be taught to some extent, but what about vocal range and quality?
posted on June 11, 2001 01:54:52 PM new
I sang some a few years back, and you can train your voice. Vocal range and quality can be taught, a lot of people take vocal lessons. With practice your vocal range will increase and it will become more comfortable to sing, and a vocal teacher can teach you how to position your mouth for the best sound.
posted on June 11, 2001 01:57:24 PM new
RainyBear, are you thinking about joining the Irish Tenors? Of course you couldn't be a tenor but you could go on tour!!
posted on June 11, 2001 02:30:01 PM new
cmore57 - thanks, that's very good to know!
And zilvy, I'm ROTFL!!
I'd love to join the Irish Tenors in one way or another.
Seriously, they've inspired me. I used to be good at music but I haven't practiced it for years. I'm now feeling like I haven't done anything special with my life and I want to rectify that situation since I recently turned 30 and need to get on the ball!
So I'd like to start experimenting with music or writing more. I'm considering learning to sing (right now I can carry a tune but I have only a lame one-octave range!) or learn to play the violin. I'm also thinking of writing a screenplay or a musical, though I know that (at least the latter) would be a challenge.
I used to be very good at the clarinet but you'll never get one of those *#&@ things back in my mouth again. Just thinking of the reed sets my teeth on edge.
My husband reminded me this week that he has a good singing voice and a three-octave range -- but he doesn't use it! If he'd sing to me like the Irish Tenors I swear I'd just melt...
posted on June 11, 2001 02:37:54 PM new
Maybe there's hope for my daughter, she loves to sing, and we just can't tell her that she has no sense of rhythm or tone.
posted on June 11, 2001 05:02:00 PM new
Absolutely you can learn to sing.
The voice is just like any other instrument, you more you "play" it, the better it gets. You can also think like an athlete, work the muscles out and they get stronger, your range of motion gets better and more powerful. You can also develop an ear, it is difficult to do, but with practice you can develop perfect pitch. (Handy when starting a song with vocals only. )
cmore57 speaks the truth, contact a vocal teacher for some pointers, and always warm up first so you don't strain your voice. And if you smoke, stop it! (Unless you are trying to sound like Joplin)
I'm the opposite of you, I just turned 40 after having been a musician and singer since I was 15. I decided to "retire" from the band. Now I'm back to my roots with the accoustic stuff in my girlfriend's living room... what a blast!
posted on June 11, 2001 05:43:49 PM new
You probably never thought of this but if you have any problems with your hearing you are not going to be able to hear what you are doing to train yourself to sing.
posted on June 11, 2001 08:16:51 PM new
LOL, thanks Rick. I'll try that. I don't have any dogs, but I think I can judge by whether the cats have climbed the curtains during my shower.
gravid -- luckily, so far my hearing is fine (knock on wood). However, that is something I hadn't considered.
sugar2912 -- that does make sense that working one's voice can make it stronger. I tried it in the car all the way home today!
posted on June 12, 2001 10:20:12 PM new
Hi RainyBear:
I am a tenor in The Augustana College Choir in Sioux Fall, SD. I was an all-state vocalist while in high school. I have been singing as long as I can remember. My first solo was when I was 9 in front of about 1500 people. I have been surrounded by vocalists my entire life. I hate to burst your bubble, but a beautiful singing voice truly is a gift from God. You are born with it. While you can improve your voice with lessons and practice, the pure, natural sound can't be taught. It's a talent...just like any other talent. So while your range definitely can be taught, quality is God's doing. But of course any singing it beautiful in God's eyes.
[ edited by cartoonglassfreak on Jun 12, 2001 10:21 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 03:09:22 AM newcartoonglassfreak, Way to dish out encouragement!!
It is wonderful that you have a gift from God, even better that you are so well aware of your gift from God, but it is not so cool to tell those who are less gifted than you that they will never achieve the greatness which your gift from God allows you to achieve. (Whether it is true or not, I'm sure you are quite good.)
Rainybear, it is true that some folks are born with it. But if you want to do it, and you enjoy doing it, and you work at it, then you can attain your goals of range and quality.
My hubb decided to take up guitar at the age of 34, he knew he'd never be Hendrix, but he has fun with it, and he gets to stretch his capabilities with it.
I don't think that God minds that he started so late, that he can't whip out a lead like Eric Clapton etc, we recieve many gifts from God, and we all have many talents. Some of us just need to work on em a bit more than others.
posted on June 13, 2001 07:22:16 AM newcartoonglassfreak - thanks, I appreciate hearing a different perspective!
sugar - that's OK, I really knew that all along about some people having a natural singing voice, but I do believe you that it can be learned to an extent. Don't worry, I won't give up because I'm not Leann Rimes or Pavarotti.
It really makes sense that range can be taught but that natural quality should be present to begin with. I do believe my voice has a good (though not outstanding) quality within my -- ahem -- extremely limited range, lol!
posted on June 13, 2001 10:05:09 AM new
Age is a big factor. Even the very gifted and trained singers run up against the physical decline we all do and it limits their range and power.
Does anyone know why the fat singers seem to be able to belt it out with such power? All the opera and gospel singers that can blow the windows out with out a sound system seem to be of formidable proportions.
posted on June 13, 2001 10:10:36 AM new
I think it has something to do with your diaphram, and I'm sure most of the larger singers have more power because their diaphrams are larger. However, you can train your diaphram and make your voice louder and stronger.
[ edited by cmore57 on Jun 13, 2001 10:10 AM ]
[ edited by cmore57 on Jun 13, 2001 10:11 AM ]
[ edited by cmore57 on Jun 13, 2001 10:11 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 10:22:03 AM new
sugar2912:
I NEVER intended my post to degrade anyone. I just told the truth. A singing voice IS a gift from God...just like athletic ability or academic greatness. And as far as knowing I have a good voice...DAMN RIGHT! I have worked long and hard to acheive my goals and I am PROUD of it! And I am not going to let some ignorant person like yourself tell me otherwise! Anyone that is in the music profession will tell you singing is natural. Yes, the logistics of singing can be improved, but the shear talent comes from the man above. We all have talents...it's just up to us to unveil those talents. I'd appreciate an apology sugar2912. You honestly hurt my feelings.
posted on June 13, 2001 11:19:15 AM new
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and I totally get where you're coming from, RainyBear, since I am also one who considers my voice 'good' but not "solo good". I have found great pleasure in participating in choirs, and my car has super acoustics (and no critical opinions of my talent or lack thereof).
But I would love to sing a solo in church one Sunday, without feeling like I should apologize after. Is merely "pleasant sounding" good enough? Or should I let my pastor's talented daughters continue their reign as the 'sole soloists'?
posted on June 13, 2001 12:01:33 PM new
hiddenheaven - I think if you feel comfortable doing a solo and don't think anyone will cringe, you should go for it!
If you're not sure, maybe try something fun and casual like karaoke first.
posted on June 13, 2001 01:02:03 PM new
hiddenheaven:
GO FOR IT! If you enjoy it that's all that matters. Remember, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks...when you're singing for the Lord it is ALWAYS beautiful! I know you will love it.
The answer to your question is "yes--to a certain extent." As with anything, you (or anyone) can make the most of what you're given, if you're given it at all. cartoonglassfreak was right on the money with his assessment--the vast majority of people in this world do NOT have the natural talent or ability to be professional singers, BUT you do NOT have to have that capability in order to sing in the shower or in a church or community choir and enjoy the experience of making music. Almost anyone can improve with practice, with the exception of those who simply can't carry a tune in a bucket no matter what (I have a pianist friend who simply CAN'T sing on pitch even though she's tried for years, but she plays very nicely).
I think you need to be born with "something," but it doesn't HAVE to be readily apparent. I couldn't carry a tune as a child, so my mother had me start playing the cello when I was about 10 (and I eventually majored in cello in college). As I got older, I found I really COULD sing on pitch, and I started singing in my [small] church choir when I was about 13 (knowing nothing about proper singing). When I started to really train my voice (thank GOD for my wonderful voice teacher!), I found that I did have a special gift. What helped me immensely was the fact that I had an instrumental background for "musicianship" training, and I got a teacher that really knew what she was doing.
It doesn't matter at what age you start or what your vocal range is, you CAN improve, and you may be amazed at what you can accomplish! You might want to consider some voice lessons so a professional can assess what you need at this point, tell you what your realistic expectations can be, and get you started in the right direction. A community college, university, or opera company would be good places to get a recommendations for a teacher. If you can't afford lessons, talk with a church choir director for an assessment. If you're able to sing on pitch, a limited range shouldn't be that much of a handicap. Regular rehearsing will help to increase your range (but a good teacher will help to ensure that you don't damage your voice in the process). Even people with "ugly" voices can be helped to find a more beautiful way of producing a tone. If you're one of the lucky ones who has a pleasing voice to begin with, your task is much easier--you probably just need to work on range and/or volume.
Here are some things to keep in mind for anyone who wants to start making music (JMO):
1. PERFECT PITCH: If you have the inborn ability for it, you can achieve it eventually. If you weren't one of the lucky ones to be blessed with it, you won't get it. MANY of my colleagues don't have it and never will, so don't be discouraged if you can't do it. Some people have good relative pitch (singing intervals), but can't just pick a note out of the air.
2. MUSICIANSHIP: See #1. I am frequently amazed at the number of professional singers who have to have interpretation/notes/rhythms pounded into their heads by teachers and coaches. There's absolutely no doubt that one's musicianship can improve with practice and exposure to good musicians, but you don't have to get to Placido Domingo's level to enjoy yourself--you're probably already better than some of the people I know!
3. BE KIND TO YOUR VOCAL CORDS: You should drink at least 1/2 gallon of water a day for your whole body, not just your voice. Drink an additional glass of water every time you drink something with caffeine or alchohol (both of these dry out your cords), or just give them up altogether. Don't abuse your cords by frequently shouting or yelling. If your voice is constantly hoarse or foggy, you may want to consider seeing an ear/nose/throat doctor (otolaryngologist) to see if you have nodes on your cords. Problems can arise from something as simple as your speaking voice being too low or high. (Giving up smoking is, of course, a no brainer!)
4. HAVE FUN!!!! There's nothing better than making music with a group of people, no matter what your level of expertise is. Even in very fine church choirs, you find people who can't read music. All it takes is a desire to make the best of what you have, being willing to learn, and sticking to it. You'll never be lonely if you involve yourself with music and musicians.
5. PASS THE TORCH: One of the biggest tragedies in recent years is the removal of music (and/or drama) instruction from the public schools. Participating in school music taught leadership, discipline, and cooperation, and gave non-athletes or otherwise average students the opportunity to express their creativity and talent. If you're a parent, start your kids on music lessons NOW! Practicing takes work, but the feeling of accomplishment when they master a song will do wonders for a child's self esteem. You will give them a lifetime of joy if you open the world of classical music to them. Symphony orchestras and opera companies usually offer student performances or dress rehearsals. Even if they never become performers, they will know how to appreciate good music. (OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox now...)
BTW the cello's a heckuva lot easier than the violin--you NEVER have to play as many notes!
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victoria, if she's a child, cmore57 has a good point. If she's a teenager, let a voice teacher be the one to tell her. It'll get you off the hook, and she's more likely to believe a third party.
DDICffe, I haven't broken china yet, but I've been told that my high C can probably be heard several blocks away from the theater...
gravid, dramatic singers have to have an awful lot of stamina and reserves to draw upon to sing that long and loudly, and you DO have to be born that way (lungs of iron, vocal cords of steel...). Some skinny little Mozart singer just can't make it through 5 hours of Wagner with its 100+ piece orchestra (the Ring Cycle calls for 6 harps and maybe 25(?) various brass instruments). Even those who look quite heavy are probably more physically fit than you'd imagine. Singing at a professional level is definitely an aerobic exercise!
hiddenheaven, does your church have a choir? Perhaps your choir director could let you do a solo line or verse in an anthem if you don't want to step on any toes (or if you feel more comfortable doing it gradually). Is there an opportunity for cantoring or helping to lead hymn singing? If you're on good terms with the daughters, maybe you could ask to be part of a duet or trio--that would be a real treat for the congregation. Definitely go for it!
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P.S. Thanks, RainyBear, for starting a thread I actually know something about!
Without eBay, I might have a real life...
[ edited by mcbrunnhilde on Jun 15, 2001 01:28 AM ]
posted on June 15, 2001 07:44:51 AM new
Wow, mcbrunnhilde, thanks for the excellent advice! I'm going on vacation tomorrow but may look into voice lessons -- or at the very least start with a CD -- when I get back.
Actually, I think I've already improved by using my voice more this week. Yesterday morning I had a good sound and a range of about an octave and a half... though during the afternoon I was back to only an octave, and I think my voice was tired from that little bit of singing (20 minutes or so) in the morning. It was strange, but after that morning singing my speaking voice even sounded better!
My husband says he has (or used to have) a three-octave range. Is that typical?
posted on June 15, 2001 10:08:17 AM new
Good morning, RainyBear!
I'm not surprised that your voice got tired after only 20 minutes of singing. Remember that your vocal cords are controlled by muscles (little teensy tiny ones!), and like any muscles they need to be used properly. All experts recommend stretching exercises before working out, and the same thing applies to singing. That's why you should vocalize first--if you warm up your voice properly, you'll be able to sing for a longer period of time with less fatigue (another reason why a voice teacher is a good idea!). Good vocal support (from your diaphragm) will also help your speaking voice get stronger and more healthy without fatigue.
About your husband's 3-octave range...it depends on how usable the notes are and if he's counting going into falsetto at the top! Men usually have smaller ranges than women IF they are singing full voice. I have an unusually wide range of notes I can HIT--about 3 1/2 octaves (C below middle C to E or F above high C), but I would never perform the notes at the extremes of my range. Of course, just HAVING the notes means that anything I DO sing will not sound strained or at the limit of my range. Why don't you both try some voice lessons and join a choir together? Any church choir I've been in has numerous couples, and it's a great activity to do together!
Have a great time on vacation, and best of luck on getting your voice in shape!
Without eBay, I might have a real life...
