posted on June 17, 2001 05:29:50 AM new
A Florida School system is paying its students up to $50 each depending on their scores on their FCAT tests. Is there anything wrong with paying students to perform well in school?
posted on June 17, 2001 05:48:15 AM newIs there anything wrong with paying students to perform well in school?
Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Why not teach children at an early age that exceptional work pays off.
I find that much preferrable to the system that exists in most schools now. The system can appear to reward the most difficult and slower students with extra attention. My wife spends the bulk of her time with the students that are problem children.
posted on June 17, 2001 06:08:41 AM new
I don't believe in paying children anything for what is expected of them in this life..whether it is school or anything else. "Exceptional" is the key word here. My kids were never paid for chores or grades UNLESS it was "above and beyond the call of duty".
posted on June 17, 2001 06:46:35 AM new
It's my opinion that parental involvement is more important to children than money. The best motivation for a child is positive reinforcement in the form of interest and verbal rewards by teachers and parents.
Their success, motivated by such recognition will lead to an internalized pride in achievment...something that money cannot buy.
I could not afford to pay my children for good grades but they knew dam well that I appreciated their efforts.
posted on June 17, 2001 07:16:14 AM new
If the school system had a program for exceptional students that gave them funds for their future tuition when they went to the university it would be a much better incentive than the abstract idea that you MAY have access to some funding but no real guarantee or vestment.
Not all students are motivated the same. When I was graduated from High School my Uncle told me to go to whatever school I wanted and he would take care of me financially until I graduated. No loan etc. - just a free ride.
I had no desire to go to school because I was already making more money than he was with 6 years of school and anything I wanted to study I could without the slow pace. I could already see I could not fit in the sort of organizations that funded studies in Physics which was all I was really interested in studying. I could not play the political games to work for a government agency or huge corperation. In about 6 months I would have been black balled out of employment for not having enough suction.
I wonder if this is an effort to motivate disadvantaged children in a particular school district in Florida. If this is the case, the money would be better spent in hiring additional teachers.
Then, if I were Jebb Bush, I would proceed to kick my brother's a** for giving away the tax money which could have helped to rectify this problem.
posted on June 17, 2001 07:55:57 AM new
I personally don't believe in it because in my house good grades were expected and earned.
If my kids made a C and that was all they could make and I know they did their best, then that's a good grade.
If they didn't try at all then they couldn't expect to get even a C.
We lived in Florida and my kids went to elementary school there. There is no worse school system IMO. The teachers are grossly underpaid and don't care about the children as an individuals. They just do their job and go home.
For the school to pay $50 to each child for FCAT scores is failing the child. If the teachers would teach what they need to know to pass the FCAT (which is extremely difficult), there would be no need to bribe the kids. They can't learn what they're not taught. No amount of money can teach them the answers.
They would be better off using the lottery money to fund scholarships for kids who earn good grades and want to continue their education. GA has the HOPE scholarship funded by state lottery money. They send a lot of kids to college, where they have to maintain a B+ average in order to keep the scholarship. If they fall below, they have a semester to boost their grades (at their own expense) to gain the scholarship back again. This is to weed out the kids that just want the free ride and don't care much about their education. It works very well.
JMHO and not expected to win any awards for brilliance.
posted on June 17, 2001 08:28:56 AM new
My parents often rewarded me with money for good grades. But that wasn't what made getting good grades great. What made it great was the fact that I loved school, and the look of pride my parents had when I'd show them my report cards. Also, the better my grades, the better my privileges.
My younger sibling had a learning disability, and my folks never made him feel left out. They would just praise me when he wasn't around, or surprise me with something I'd been wanting but thought I'd have to wait for. He got rewarded for the things he did well - a raised grade for example.
I think anything that serves as an incentive for kids to get good grades is fine.
The only problem I can see here at all is that it might give the kids the idea that the smartest always get rewarded. All you have to do is look at what large companies pay their accountants vs what they pay their sales folks, and you can see this isn't so.
Edited to state that I mean no offense to either sales people or accountants! It's just an example.
posted on June 17, 2001 08:30:05 AM new
If you were a business manager wanting your employees to excel would you:
1) reward your exceptional salesmen
2) punish your substandard salesmen
3) just expect them to do the best they can
I suppose I'm assuming a child will understand the reward method the same as an adult. Since the reward method can be understood by your basic Labrador retriever I don't find it impossible to think a child wouldn't be able to grasp the principle.
I have to disagree with you on this subject. If a child is raised to always expect a monetary reward for doing well, then I pity the poor parent who is always handing out money for chores, etc. They'd better have really deep pockets as the kid will always come to expect it. Praise is one thing, handing out money for doing what should be expected (study) and get good grades is not beneficial to the kid. I have to wonder what the parents of 10 kids do! LOL!
Hard work, study and effort put forth earn good grades. Honor rolls, principal lists, awards assemblies are the children's rewards for getting good grades in school. It was always enough for us growing up and it was enough for my kids.
Punishing your substandard salesman is not an incentive for him to be better. Maybe he can't do better or as well as your example #1.
Let me ask you this question. If you had two children and Child "A" had a learning disability where he or she could only earn a C or B and struggled to get even those grades; however your other child "B" was exceptionally smart, had a photographic memory and didn't ever have to study to get all A's, never brought a book home from school because all he/she had to learn was absorbed in class, how would you reward them?
Would you give child "B", the all A student more than child "A", because like in your example, child "A" would be compared to #2 or #3, or would you reward them equally, taking into consideration that each child did their best. Let's also take under consideration here that each child has feelings and knows what the other is or isn't getting. Sure you can wait til one is home alone to reward, but kids do talk to each other and they notice when one gets more. (Don't kid yourselves into thinking they don't know. They're more perceptive than people give them credit for.)
What I'm saying is you can't compare school age children with businessmen. Yes they know what a reward system is, they're not stupid, but there is absolutely no need to create segregation in a school system or in a family where they should be none.
The older school of thought is you study, you earn your grades. You don't study you fail. No money rewards and especially none from the school system!
posted on June 17, 2001 09:55:56 AM newIf a child is raised to always expect a monetary reward for doing well, then I pity the poor parent who is always handing out money for chores, etc.
I don't believe in rewarding for what is expected, but for achievements that are beyond expectations. I wouldn't reward a child for flushing the toliet, but I would rewarding them for washing and waxing my car without being asked.
I think we are getting confused on rewarding for what is expected versus rewarding for beyond expectations. This is already done in most households and schools (I hope at least.) Honor roles, scholastic scholarships, etc. aren't new.
posted on June 17, 2001 10:17:21 AM new
(quote)I don't believe in rewarding for what is expected, but for achievements that are beyond expectations. I wouldn't reward a child for flushing the toliet, but I would rewarding them for washing and waxing my car
without being asked.
--------------------------------------
Exactly "chores", but we're talking about getting better scores on a state standardized test, the FCAT.
By the way, there is no pass/fail (so to speak) on these state standardized tests. They are given to see where the child stands in his class and to see if the child has learned enough to be promoted to the next grade. Here's what their website says:
The Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test (FCAT) is given to all students in Florida
public schools primarily at grades 4, 5, 8, and 10 and then expanded to include all
grades 3-10. The FCAT was designed to measure Florida students’ achievement of the
mathematics and reading Sunshine State Standards and will be expanded to include
other subjects. The test questions on the FCAT were specifically written to measure
various benchmarks from the Sunshine State Standards which identify what students
are expected to know and what they are expected to be able to do in reading and
mathematics.
The FCAT provides a common basis for measuring the progress of Florida students’
achievement toward meeting the high expectations set by the Sunshine State
Standards. The FCAT is currently the only test administered in Florida schools that is
specifically designed to measure the Sunshine State Standards. Additionally, the
FCAT is designed to represent the kinds of tasks and activities that parents and
teachers expect as part of good instruction. The type of information that students
encounter on the test and the kinds of questions that students must answer
accomplish this in the FCAT mathematics and reading tests.
FCAT stands for Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test for reading, math and writing. (Most schools have this type of test and most schools don't pay the kids for their scores.)
Here are the standard scores:
The mathematics section of the FCAT is graded on a 100 to 500 scale score, with a
300 representing an average score. Mathematics is further subdivided into 5 strand subscores of 0 to 100% that represent the actual percent correct on the FCAT.
The reading section of the FCAT is graded on a 100 to 500 scale score, with a 300
representing an average score. Reading is further subdivided into 2 subscores of 0 to
100% that represent the actual percent correct for Informational Text and Literature
passages on the FCAT
Results of the FCAT are reported using an equated scale score. A student's total
number of correct answers is converted to a score on a scale that ranges from
approximately 100 to 500. The total scores on the FCAT shall be reported in terms of
five achievement levels for each specified time period outlined in section 6A-1.09422.
--------------------------------------
If teachers would spend more time preparing the kids for these tests and teaching them, instead of ignoring those that need more help, etc, maybe the average scores would go up. Money for the kids isn't going to help when the kids don't learn all year! You can't cram for these tests. They're based on two or more years of knowledge at a time.
IMO state standardized tests should be done away with. GA has a graduation test that a kid has to pass in order to receive a diploma. The kicker here is they can take it as many times as they want to. The high school guidance counselor told me once that he has 25 year olds coming back to take the test again because they failed it several times.
What is with this UBB? Sometimes it works, sometimes not!
posted on June 17, 2001 10:36:11 AM new
Money for good grades? You must be joking. In a society where money is God, shouldn't we be trying to DRILL into young people's heads that the best rewards come from everything BUT money? Parents and teachers should be teaching children properly, not trying to pass the buck. If we all started teaching our children that values, instead of grade points, is what REALLY matters in life, then we'll end up having better kids that won't end up expecting to be paid for everything.
posted on June 17, 2001 10:46:56 AM new
I wonder if this article has any thing to do with JL's original post.
Schools that improved at least one letter grade will get bonus money of $100 per student. Schools ranked "A" also get $100 per student. Statewide 14 schools statewide jumped from a "D" to an "A" including Lancaster Elementary in Orange County
posted on June 17, 2001 10:59:45 AM new
Sounds to me like they are paying the SCHOOL a certain amount of money per student...not paying the student. Or did I miss something??
posted on June 17, 2001 11:07:27 AM new
Yes, you missed something. They are paying the students themselves, as well as giving prizes etc, but only in one particular school district.
posted on June 17, 2001 11:35:18 AM new
"Schools that improved at least one letter grade will get bonus money of $100 per student. Schools ranked "A" also get $100 per student. Statewide 14 schools statewide jumped from a "D" to an "A" including Lancaster Elementary in Orange County"
okay.....please tell me what I missed??
edited to say: The above quote is from the link that uaru posted....
jlpiece...do you have a link you can post regarding your original statement?
[ edited by nanastuff on Jun 17, 2001 11:37 AM ]
posted on June 17, 2001 12:01:19 PM new
What I'm reading between the lines here is jlpiece paying tribute to Chelsea Clinton, who did not need cash incentives or prizes to to excel at her studies and graduate with honors.
posted on June 17, 2001 12:08:02 PM new
Well, uhmmm, I guess the rest of us are illiterate or something because I didn't see where it said they're paying students either.
Where is the statement saying they're giving the students the money and prizes?
posted on June 20, 2001 10:57:43 AM new
No way do students need to be paid for good grades. What they do need is more challenging work or work geared to their ability. Why should a child with above average ability be forced to do something that he already knows or is way too easy for him? Why is it we spend billions of dollars on our kids with learning disablities and low I.Q.s and very little on the kids with above average intelligence. No wonder our best and brightest become bored!
Tests are not always a true measure of a students ability. You wouldn't believe how many kids don't read or do the test and just fill in the dots. There are also some students that are great test takers and then there are others that freeze when they see one.
posted on June 20, 2001 11:07:09 AM new
Wrong link - that is a statewide program. There is a school system superintendant who is actually awarding cash and prizes TO THE ACTUAL STUDENTS. If I find a link I'll post it, but it was in some school system in Florida. Saw it on CNN and on FOX. AS far as Chelseas wonderful accomplishments - It always helps when your daddy is the President. I'm sure those liberal professors wouldn't mind being on daddys good side.
If a child is raised to always expect a monetary reward for doing well, then I pity the poor parent who is always handing out money for chores, etc. They'd better have really deep pockets as the kid will always come to expect it. Praise is one thing, handing out money for doing what should be expected (study) and get good grades is not beneficial to the kid. I have to wonder what the parents of 10 kids do! LOL!
