posted on September 10, 2001 06:03:05 PM new
As the "no fees, no commissions" site announces FV fees to commence Sept. 17, this on top of the "Verified" and "Premium" member fees previously charged. Should be interesting to watch, if anyone needs buttered popcorn, jujubes or red licorice, let me know )
posted on September 10, 2001 07:13:11 PM new
dman-- I think it's more about honor & keeping your word, a lot of good people have put countless hours into helping to build the site, and there's a feeling of being betrayed with some...even now, the "No Fees" banners are still being displayed, guess it was something that everyone knew was coming sooner or later, but with a weeks notice? I'm wondering how they hope to have the sellers pay these FV fees.....
posted on September 10, 2001 08:00:43 PM new
Relayer
This is exactly why I left when I did. All I saw was a site that could have been great but they never kept their word. They promised so much and broke all of them. So all I can say is that I wish all of my friends at Epier good luck wherever they go and with whatever they decide to do.
posted on September 10, 2001 10:49:50 PM new
What kind of fees and how much? Advertising costs money and free sites have trouble producing revenue. I think members of the other free sites should watch ePier to see what happens when the advertising they scream for finally materializes.
posted on September 11, 2001 12:45:55 AM new
Never mind I saw it on their announcement page. They have a FVF comparison page to ebay but omit the 63 cents and $15.25 fees on items on items $25 or over $1,000 and over. ( big omission )
posted on September 11, 2001 05:28:06 AM new
Bidsbids-- I understand fully that sites need revenue to stay afloat, and I'm not in any way upset about the announcement of FVFs in and of itself, it's the complete lack of honesty displayed by ePier, by having in place a business plan, as defined almost exactly one year ago today-- http://www.epier.com/pressnews.asp- and then little by little changing that plan completely, and shafting the loyal user base in the process.
First it was the "Verified Member" ploy, lots of people signed up for $20 with the belief that revenue would go to advertising-- and none of that was seen. Then they slap the Verified Members in the face by announcing "PREMIUM" Membership--- with a whole lotta stuff that even the *Verified* members couldn't access, let alone the un-verified ones!
Now they expect the members to pay a FVF, with one weeks lead in time, zero assurances that any kind of safeguards are in place to protect members against electronic theft of their CC info that they'll no doubt require, zero assurances of any protection against deadbeat bidders (do they expect members to pay FV even if the buyer defaults?)
All in all, I've had enough. I posted my farewells on the board & emailed ePier requesting my membership be cancelled and any and all info be removed from their databank.
posted on September 11, 2001 07:04:30 AM new
I was not impressed by epier, starting with the lack of imagination shown by its very name, so I never participated.
Besides, as Paypal, Photopoint and countless other once "free" services have so clearly demonstrated, there is no such thing as a "free" forever on the internet.
Anyone who puts time and resources into a free auction services site had better be prepared for its coming charges, or its demise. The revenue from advertising, cash float and all the other lame la la land solutions are just devices to suck the fools in. It is never enough to carry the operation.
I am still looking for an alternative to ebay and will sign up and pay fees to one based in reality, not fantasy. I only ask for a business and marketing plan that makes sense to an experienced marketing, sales and auction person.
It would be refreshing to find an honest and forthright auction site that didn't play games with policy and fumbling around with customer service. An auction that was truly an open marketplace. That didn't treat Playboy magazine buyers and sellers like dirt, and painters of mermaids like pornographers. Above all, the customer service operation would NOT be based in Salt Lake City from which we get promises, not solutions.
posted on September 11, 2001 07:07:52 AM new
I now see that they have taken down the eBay vs. ePier comparison page and replace it with a totally different page.
With the short notice I wonder if this is not a desperate act by a desperate web site.
Isn't the FVF of a $25 item at eP now higher than a $25 item on eBay because of the 63 cents charge in addition to a 1.5% fee? I realize there is no listing fees but a FVF on a $25 item that is higher than eBay?
There was a recent thread about the dollar value of successful closed auctions at EP and the value was $40-$46.
This has to be a major error by an auction site and an exodous of disgruntled sellers that frequently sell items in the $25+ range should ensue. A 1.5% sell-thru rate hardly justifies this major increase in fees.
posted on September 11, 2001 01:44:11 PM new
I have ended all of my auctions at epier. I had approximately 50 there. I believe this is a very bad move, considering their sell-thru rate.
corrected some spelling
[ edited by deichen on Sep 11, 2001 05:02 PM ]
posted on September 11, 2001 08:54:21 PM new
I refused to have anything to do with Epier ever since they announced their verified membership fee. $20 each year.
Sellers might do it and I have seen the list of those that did........fine for them.
But what buyers are going to pay that same fee to enter my category just to look (mature audiences)
A waste of my time effort and money.
There are plenty of ways to "Verify" members to be 18 and over.
Also on a side note. After the membership fee was in place I went to the site and unsubscribed to their newsletter........yet it still arrived. I went again to unsubscribe last night.........we'll see if it works.
posted on September 12, 2001 02:06:55 AM new
I'll wait and see!!!
My auctions so far, at least got page views. Out of 20 or so auctions, there are almost 20 page views. On Bidville out of over 200 auctions, there are 8 pageviews. If epier has people looking, there are people buying, and I don't mind to pay a FV fee. I'm one of those who wouldn't have minded a FV on yahoo, either. It's too late for them though. Yahoo is dead now.
So,...... like I said: I'll wait and see!!!
posted on September 12, 2001 05:26:17 AM new
Heike55,
If your auctions are on auto relist on Epier, the counters do NOT reset. I had always thought I had high page views also, but they do not reset, at Bidville, the counters reset with relist.
posted on September 12, 2001 06:19:37 AM new
Aren't we going a little overboard with the ePier condemnation? Sure, they changed their tactics, but all successful organizations have to adapt or slowly wither away. It was about time ePier took on the right tactic of imposing FVFees. What did we want, them to remain free forever and remain as pathetic as Bidville? If ePier starts to plow a portion of their new revenue AGGRESSIVELY into advertising then a new BargainandHaggle might be born (same type of fee structure at BargainandHaggle and they're kicking butt!). It's about time ePier distanced itself from pathetic sites like Bidville. The only way to do it is to generate income and advertise aggressively!
I like ePier's fee structure. It's actually much lower than eBay's 5% FVFee (ePier's is 2.5% and drops the higher the $ value of the transaction) and almost 50% lower than BargainandHaggle's. I like it! It remains to be seen what they do with the income, but if they use some of it to make the site more appealing (they really need to make it more visually appealing!) and advertise RELENTLESSLY like BargainandHaggle, noone in their right mind will be able to compare ePier with laggards like Bidville again. In 6 months we'll see!
posted on September 12, 2001 06:36:47 AM new
The reality is, any site that doesn't generate income to sustain and improve operations, and advertise AGGRESSIVELY isn't worth our time! Even the ones who advertise a little offer minimal value. Don't believe it, then try listing items on free sites for a period of 6 months and evaluate your success. On the other hand eBay is aggressive as heck! Their advertising is constantly in your face. They're RELENTLESS and sellers willingly pay for that aggressiveness! BargainandHaggle is another site I've noticed is advertising more aggressively and it's paying dividends. Yahoo has recently become more aggressive in using their various sites to advertise. Now we need more of these mediocre free sites to reevaluate their retarded business plans and change course. We don't need any more Bidville's since they don't work!
Bidville could be a success as well if they took their head out of the sand and instituted a modest FVF, and heck why not a 10 cent listing fee. The 10 cent listing fee is nothing (one stinking dollar allows you to list 10 items, or $5 allows you to list 50 items) and would give it more income for advertising than what ePier has chosen. 100,000 listings would generate $10,000 for advertising from the 10 cent listing fee every listing period (3-10 days). $10,000 every 10 days is peanuts compared to eBay, but it's money Bidville doesn't see now. They could start small and have momentum build into an avalanche! It's entirely up to them whether they want to languish in mediocrity.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:17:53 AM new
Wonder how much AuctionWatch is charging ePier for the banner we see on the site? Wondering how they can afford it with the miniscule income ePier currently produces as a virtually free site. Are they advertising anywhere else? If they're trying to advertise now in their current precarious position, wonder how much advertising they will undertake if FVFs bring in 5 or 10 times the current income stream? Will they hoard the cash or spend freely?
posted on September 12, 2001 08:33:00 AM new
Not a joke about BargainandHaggle. It's the only site I've been able to sell $100+ items with regularity. The same items I've listed $100+ on eBay simply don't move since there are at least 3 sellers offering the same item for less, and sometimes 10. I'm able to get $30, $40, $50 more on the same item on BargainandHaggle with no listing fees. I sell more lower priced items on eBay, but the higher priced items generate the massive profit margins. That's why it looks like eBay will outsell BargainandHaggle at least 4 to 1 this month in terms of # of items sold, but my profit on BargainandHaggle will outpace eBay at least 2 to 1. Last month BargainandHaggle actually outsold eBay 2 to 1 in both the # of items sold and profits. 2 crazy bidders on BargainandHaggle this month actually generated more profit for me than the last 19 eBay sales I've made combined! Either bidders on BargainandHaggle aren't as savvy, or they don't pennypinch as much as on eBay.
For example, there's this item I offer that retails well over $250. My wholesale cost $75. I offer it up on eBay with a starting bid of $100, but it doesn't even get a bid. Lots of looks but no bids. I'm thinking a lot of eBay bidders head for the hills when they see starting bids in the triple digits.
Same item, I inflate the price and list it on BargainandHaggle with a starting bid of $200. First bidder walks in, knocks 25% off the starting bid and offers $150. She thinks she's one helluva dealmaker. Meanwhile, I take the $150 and don't even try to negotiate. From her vantage point she thinks she got a steal by shaving $50 off the starting price, but from mine I'm happy as a clam since I just made a $75 profit.
Same item with the same $200 starting bid and the next bidder walks in. He's more brazen! He rips 38% off the starting bid and offers $125. Again, I immediately take the offer and don't even try to negotiate --- not gonna press my luck. Again the person thinks they worked one helluva deal by shaving $75 off the starting price. Meanwhile I couldn't be happier to walk off with an easy $50 profit.
And so on ...
Meanwhile these people could have found the same item offered on eBay for $25-$50 less than what they paid. Why didn't they? Less savvy, lack of knowledge, what?
Totally different psychology at work on BargainandHaggle versus eBay.
posted on September 17, 2001 10:22:17 AM new
As other former EPIER members have reminded us here, the issue is not FVF at all. Most disgruntled former members will agree at a fair rate schedule develpoed at EPIER....and the need for such a device to sustain the site. The Issue at hand is about keeping your word to your customer base. Some posters here seem satisfied with, and expect to be ripped off at some point at ALL the Auction sites....I agree this is eventually a fact due to deadbeat bidders and the like, but to have the sites owners participating in the same manner by misleading members with promises, then not keeping their word
....is a very bad message to all, to say the least. Who would actually pay a FVF (or any fee) to a firm that treated its customers like this? At least YAHOO gave notice to its members before the Fees came into effect, then had a Chat session to let them know they meant something and maybe appreciated
their participation.
posted on September 17, 2001 10:33:43 AM new
To clarify a little my closing point in last message, EPIER did give notice of FVF far in advance, which is to their credit. My point I was tryng to make is that WARNINGS of change in policy , which effect ALL members seem to be done with only those which involve their revenue. All the minor adjustments like Image hosting features, bookmarking sellers, blocklists - as well as banning members for questionable posts - all get placed in WITHOUT Warning at all. In the past, EPIER has demonstrated unequaled levels of "showing they have a pulse" and ability to respond to user input to help get their site to the peak it had been at. All this was way before FVF was a reality, and carries more momentum in the long run for sustained growth. Seems now they are going to be running on an empty tank, because the people fueling them with all the ideas that costed them ZERO to use will be gone. Who in their right mind would offer them a viable idea when they could be banned without ever a warning? Nutz. totally wacked out.
posted on September 17, 2001 11:09:29 AM new
ePier --- the best fee structure for a pay Auction site in the world IMHO! ePier, change all the rules you want as long as you increase the # and frequency of sales. ePier, you were worse than PATHETIC the past 6 months! I'm hoping for better days ahead thanks to these changes.
I didn't join ePier for the sense of community or to be cajoled at every turn. I joined it to make PROFIT, simple as that! As dim hinted, if the FVFs don't generate enough income to advertise aggressively, then why not institute a 10 cent listing fee across the board --- 100,000 listings will generate $10,000 every ~7 days. Throw in a free-relist or 2 for the 10 cents if ya do it, will ya? 10 cents per item is almost as good as free, and you can hide the image hosting expense within it. $1 would buy 10 listings or $5.00 would buy an incredible 50 listings! What I want to see is another low-cost viable venue that advertises relentlessly and generates growing sales!!!
posted on September 17, 2001 11:45:48 AM new
Well if it's just about profit, how can you say ePier is where it's at? I had many many sales there, but to be honest, I waited sometimes months to sell the exact same item I would sell at eBay in 3 days and it always sold at a lower price at ePier...usually drastically lower on the higher dollar items. If I added in my listing fee and FVF from eBay I still came waaaay out ahead, that on top of the protection against the DB's offered there. I only stayed at ePier to support its growth and because I believed in the sites owners promises based off his vision for how it would grow! I believed in their promised of how they planned to topple the giant eBay and I was duped!
I bet if the numbers of the recently closed auctions as well as the users that have left would be reflected in the totals there would be a different stat to show...not even counting all the auctions that are frozen access to be closed ;o)
posted on September 17, 2001 11:56:01 AM new
OK Marty that's a shame as I can not email them as I have no email address!! Maybe I can rephrase it to request a User ID? Would that be OK?
posted on September 17, 2001 11:56:23 AM new
Eseller: Institute all the Gimmicks you feel will help, but that has already been done time and time again with the same end results. Very few will pay 10 cents to list on a site, when they sell 1-3 items per month
on occasion. Some who sell more than that, barely squeeze enough a profit to keep their own side running let aside have another expense to shell out and keep track of. Remember, this site did not start out as the type of EGREED site it looks like now. Anyone who was drawn in on that basis I suppose is deemed to have "fallen into a trap" set by some evil Troll somewhere?
Whats stopping EPIER to do a complete 180 and go back to the values that got it past its infancy, and stop the Moneymaking tactics and gimmicks you hold so highly?
Would you then alter your statement to fit into this mindset as well? Perhaps under a different user ID?
posted on September 17, 2001 12:22:55 PM new
techforce,
ePier doesn't advertise at all (except for recently and very intermittently on AuctionWatch) from what I see. You aren't gonna generate good sell-through and profitable sales if the stinking site doesn't advertise! Right now they don't have the income. How could they? Give them a chance to get some income under their belts and let's see what they do. If they hoard it and don't try to grow the site by advertising, then that's another story. I'd like to think of the past 6 months at ePier as the Stone Ages and now they're about to become civilized!
Who in their right mind wants ePier to remain what Bidville is today --- a TOTAL and PATHETIC WASTE OF TIME???
posted on September 17, 2001 12:40:22 PM new
Eseller: Im Not saying thats the issue. You seem to not want to elaborate on the issue of Customer Service. Theres more to an Auction site than Hi-Volume sales. They got as far as they have so far based alot on Word of Mouth. Good Word of Mouth, ,great customer service, and KEEPING THEIR WORD - did tons more than the new Verified and Storefront status's have or will ever accomplish....much less some clever .GIF
posted strategicly on the WEB to lure more
victims to a site who advertises still: "no fees ever" in some of their current banners.
Is their Pattern going to reflect just finding more 'suckers' so to speak, or stick with what has gotten them this far and has proven to be at least 'some' success? Sales will come even if they dont advertise....as long as they are spoken about in a credible way. Heck Id rather get new customers for my Business by word of mouth from a past customer, rather than drag in a bunch of "unknowns" by posting an ad on the internet....but thats probably why I dont make as much as others do? Fine by me. My goal is to make an effort to appreciate the customers who appreciate the way I do business. If I have to lie to them to get more business....what has been accomplished?
)
I'm able to get $30, $40, $50 more on the same item on BargainandHaggle with no listing fees. I sell more lower priced items on eBay, but the higher priced items generate the massive profit margins. That's why it looks like eBay will outsell BargainandHaggle at least 4 to 1 this month in terms of # of items sold, but my profit on BargainandHaggle will outpace eBay at least 2 to 1. Last month BargainandHaggle actually outsold eBay 2 to 1 in both the # of items sold and profits. 2 crazy bidders on BargainandHaggle this month actually generated more profit for me than the last 19 eBay sales I've made combined! Either bidders on BargainandHaggle aren't as savvy, or they don't pennypinch as much as on eBay.