tomyou
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posted on October 7, 2000 05:51:08 AM new
Well I got my first payment over $15 . to be exact it was $15.49 so I was charged .54. If up to $15 is .25 and after that you go with the 1.9 % why would that not be 1.9% over the $15 or why would not charge the quarter. You are charging the .25 for the $15 then going back and double charging it with the 1.9%. is this another thing you can't explain and choose to ignore or can I get an answer to this one.
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dman3
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posted on October 7, 2000 06:18:38 PM new
yes this is Double chargeing and I brought this fact up about there .25 pluss 1.9% on transactions. last month everyone was so busy name calling they couldn't see these facts.
This is double dipping or chargeing every seller with business accounts twice for each transaction over $15.
If they were chargeing .25 on up to the frist $15 of a transaction and 1.9% on the balance on it over $15 this would be different.
unfortunately when I mentioned this I was call stupid I was told I should get a calulator and other things that werent to nice.
I dont care if paypal need to charge a fee for business type users but dont charge them two times for each one over $15.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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tomyou
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posted on October 7, 2000 07:31:23 PM new
I'll mark this up as another question that will go unanswered by the paypal crew. If they have no answer you are ignored. I also wanted to know a reason for charging a fee on a payment from a exisiting pay pal balance. That is the same float money that they are double, triple and more charging for. I still use them for now but will stop all advertising on my auction pages, notifications and such and I don't intend to make payments via them anymore or leave a substanital balance. In the long run they are losing more money by all this lying and back stabbing. The truth and honesty up front would have gotten them more loyal customers but Oh well who are we !!
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paypaldamon
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posted on October 9, 2000 11:17:10 AM new
HI Tomyou,
The fees have been on the web site and it will charge 1.9% plus twenty-five cents on incoming transactions over 15.00. Items under 15.00 are charged a flat fee of twenty-five cents.
The fee schedule can be found on the web site.
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whitemist
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posted on October 9, 2000 01:28:54 PM new
Uh-huh
that's why all my newer auctions now carry the following..........
I Prefer Money Orders as payment
However I Also Accept Checks, Cash,ExchangePath, Bidpay, Paydirect, and Paypal
NOTE: Exchange path is offering a $10.00 sign up bonus
so click the link and get 10 Bucks
NOTE: Paypal is now charging ME .25 cents for each transaction PLUS 1.9% for all
transactions over $15.00 Therefore if you choose to use Paypal then you must add
.25 cents if your total including shipping is less then $15.00 - OR - .75 cents if your
total including shipping is Over $15.00 I will pay the rest
this fee ONLY Applies if you use Paypal
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tomyou
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posted on October 9, 2000 02:36:05 PM new
I am aware of wht the fees are and where they are located. I just wanted and explantion as to why I am charged twice for the first $15 on anything over that. you get the .25 and then go back and charge the 1.9% again on THAT FIRST 15 again so you are double charging for it !! I alos understand this is something I will have to get over and live with. However you are collecting interest on over 5 million dollars a day so in my opinion you guys are cuttin off your nose to spite your face. I still take pay pal but i no longer advertise and it will be intersting to see how much of a hit you will tke in the next month or so. In the long run I think you will lose money by charging these fees. But thats just one mans humble opinion and I have been wrong before  Anyways Damon I'll stop harrasing you for a day or two because you are the only represenitive at pay pal that has ever bothered to answer any of my questions so I do thank you for your effort anyways.
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paypaldamon
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posted on October 9, 2000 02:38:11 PM new
Hi tomyou,
I don't understand how it is a double-charge if that is the fee schedule stated for the transaction.
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tomyou
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posted on October 9, 2000 02:39:59 PM new
Well I lied Damon I promise after this one I'll lay off you never explained why we are charged for a payment that comes from an existing paypal balance and not a bank or CC. this is money we kindly leave in our account for you to coleect intrest on and then I am charged for it. The CC charge you can justify but this I would kindly like explained. Thanks again and really this is it
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paypaldamon
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posted on October 9, 2000 02:42:52 PM new
HI tomyou,
For our system to work (i.e. for us to be able to run a great, low-cost online payment system that saves businesses money because we're cheaper than credit cards) businesses have to pay the costs to run the whole system. Credit cards are our biggest cost, but there are others (anti-fraud protection, customer service, etc.)
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whitemist
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posted on October 9, 2000 02:57:31 PM new
It is double charging because..
if the amount sent is 15.00 the charge is .25 cents...
if the amount sent is 15.01 the charge is .54 cents..
pretty cool huh ))
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paypaldamon
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posted on October 9, 2000 03:00:46 PM new
Hi,
No, that is a fee schedule.
To this amount=x and over that amount=x.
Two different items.
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BigBux
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posted on October 9, 2000 03:12:49 PM new
It's not that we don't understand the fee schedule - it's just that the fee schedule is flawed. Is there anyone at PayPal who sees anything wrong with the following scenarios?
1) $0.10 charged results in a fee of $0.25. Right? Right!
2) $14.95 charged results in a fee of $0.25. Right? Right!
3) $15.05 charged results in a fee of $0.25 plus .019 x $15.05 or a total of $0.54. Right? Right! 29 cents more fee for 10 cents more charged. Who there at PayPal think this is right? Raise your hands.
If PP MUST institute a fee schedule, the only thing everyone in this thread is saying is that the fee should be:
1) $25.00 charged results in a fee of $0.25 plus .019 x ($25.00 - $15.00) or a total of $0.44. (Thus not charging double on the first $15.00) Computers (and even humans) can handle the calculations - it's not Rocket Science.
[ edited by BigBux on Oct 9, 2000 03:14 PM ]
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tomyou
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posted on October 9, 2000 04:49:47 PM new
I understand you must pay for expenses. But as a recent article stated you have $5 million dollars a day collecting interest so thats why I think paying a fee on a existing balance is if not wrong at the very least unethical because that same float money gets charged over and over again AND you are collecting the intrest on the money any charging on it. That would more than pay fore itself and you would still have the CC and Bank fees to pay those expenses. Try looking at it like that from our side and I think you can understand where I and many others are coming from. I am not total against a charge it just wasn't set up very well. I don't think you had people looking at it from a seller point of view. Thanks for you responses Damon , it may not seem like it but I do appreciate them.
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TheRedCircle
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posted on October 10, 2000 03:45:33 AM new
One must always remember, tomyou, that Paypal's perception of truth depends on who it is talking to at the time.
When it talks to eBay Magazine and the like, of course it has $5 million a day coming in and its services are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
When it talks to our buyers, it is a great benevolent organization that is doing so well it can offer cash back on transactions to entice buyers to continue to bombard sellers with a fusilade of Paypal requests in order to keep their numbers high.
When it talks to its sellers, it is barely scraping by...and is so in need of funds that it needs to charge all these fees and restructure things without notice to keep itself above water. One side of the face never knows what the other sides are telling other sellers, even if the situations are similar.
And you, tomyou, have committed a major sin against Paypal...you have pointed out the illogic in a policy! I'm sure that soon you will not be able to post here, since PaypalVito and PaypalGuido are already on their way to your house to sanction your typing fingers.
----
TRC
[ edited by TheRedCircle on Oct 10, 2000 03:46 AM ]
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 10, 2000 05:52:44 AM new
Damon:
I don't understand how it is a double-charge if that is the fee schedule stated for the transaction.
So just because PayPal set up a fee schedule the fee schedule can't be considered double-dipping?
So if a robber meets you in an ally and decides to apply this logic he can do this:
1) Hold up a sign in front of you that says "I'm going to rob you!"
2) Robber pulls a gun and aims it at your head.
3) You give the robber your money.
4) You complain to the robber about unfair treatment, etc.
5) The robber calmly states: "I can't see how my robbing you is unfair. It was plainly stated on my cardboard sign that I intended to do just that!"
Of course the robbers actions conform to your logic so it must be ok if he robs you...
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mrjim
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posted on October 10, 2000 06:37:19 AM new
That is all part of the master plan. Let's take a look at the numbers...
According to PayPal's press releases, they have an average daily balance/float of $5 Million and process an average of 100,000 payments a day. With a 3 day float prior to transferring the funds to your account that would make the daily income $1.6 million. Divided by the 100,000 payments gives you an average payment of $16.00.
Now, doesn't it make sense to manipulate the fee schedule to charge the maximum amount on these transactions ??? You Bet.
Twenty Five Cents, plus 1.9 %, plus .6 % for daily deposit equals 4% fee on a $16.00 transaction.
Or, if you have them mail a check they will be charging another $1.50, making your total fee $2.15 or 13.4 % on a $16.00 sale.
That is pretty high fees for a service that is free. But don't worry, they won't force anyone to upgrade to a business account.
Rule Number One in detecting a scam: When it sounds too good to be true, .......
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macandjan
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posted on October 10, 2000 07:36:45 AM new
Damon - What they are trying to say is you are charging 1.9% of the whole amount as soon as the number goes over $15.00. You have already paid 25¢ for the $15.00 so the 1.9% should only be charged for the amount OVER $15.00. That is not what the fee scheduale says I agree but it is wrong to be gouging people like this. It results in the cost of the service being really excessive for the $15 to $20 range. I am not going to argue with PP I am just going to take your payment option off my items from $15.00 to $25.00.
When you don't double dip this range of payments I will use you there again. Treat me well or lose my business.
And this playing stupid like you don't understand the point is not becoming.
[ edited by macandjan on Oct 10, 2000 07:37 AM ]
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BigBux
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posted on October 10, 2000 08:47:42 AM new
I have to give PPD the benefit of the doubt - I think he (or she) is probably a very intelligent person. This is certainly a primary consideration that the PP decision and policy makers took in placing PPD in this front-line position. I'm sure that PPD is not free to let personal opinion filter into the answers given. There are strict "dos and don'ts" governing PPD's replies. PPD is a buffer, a time-buyer, a peacemaker, etc. BUT, PPD is also the only contact with PP that most of us have ever had and in that position, PPD must take an inordinate amount of flak from any and all of us. That goes with the job. I think that what gauls most of us is that the PP generals have little respect for the PP members (you and I) and credit us with little, if any, intelligence. Either that or the PP Generals fear our intelligence and are beginning to realize that their business plan was not well conceived in the beginning and is not now being modified in a manner that will be tolerated by the PP members. And to think that a few months ago, I thought PP was the greatest thing going.
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tomyou
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posted on October 13, 2000 07:50:30 PM new
i guess to much logic for famon to reply to this thread anymore. He must have restrictions on stating his true feeling or he thinks we are all idiots. I just haven't figured out which yet
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tomyou
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posted on October 13, 2000 07:50:45 PM new
i guess to much logic for famon to reply to this thread anymore. He must have restrictions on stating his true feeling or he thinks we are all idiots. I just haven't figured out which yet
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uaru
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posted on October 13, 2000 08:07:05 PM new
"i guess to much logic for famon to reply to this thread anymore. He must have restrictions on stating his true feeling or he thinks we are all idiots."
Company reps can't give their true feelings sometimes, diplomacy is a requirement for them. I don't think he's labeled everyone idiots, I don't think he's labeled everyone abusive or unprofessional either. Even if he has, he could never state so in public, that's a luxury only for customers.
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uaru
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posted on October 14, 2000 12:03:38 AM new
"You are charging the .25 for the $15 then going back and double charging it with the 1.9%."
I know this isn't an answer, but it is an attempt to settle your nerves. PayPal isn't the only one that uses that format. Once the item goes over $15 the entire amount has the 1.9% applied to it. If you were using BillPoint they'd do exactly the same thing, if I sell something via BillPoint for 15.01 the transaction is for 35 cents plus 2.25% or 3.00% (depending on your volume of sales) of the total amount, they don't deduct the $15 and then apply the percentage fee to the balance remaining.
This is standard, look around.
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outoftheblue
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posted on October 14, 2000 12:12:07 AM new
Damon
for us to be able to run a great, low-cost online payment system that saves businesses money....businesses have to pay the costs to run the whole system. Credit cards are our biggest cost, but there are others (anti-fraud protection, customer service, etc.)
This runs contrary to what you said earlier.
We are only passing on credit card charges at cost
What are we paying for? The anti-fraud protection has loopholes big enough to drive a semi through. Buyer anti-fraud protection? Sellers, just send an empty box with delivery confirmation and the buyer has no protection. Seller anti-fraud protection? If the buyer pays with a stolen credit card you are out of luck. If there's a complaint about non-delivery sellers accounts are frozen for weeks with no explaination.
Why he h*ll should sellers pay for buyer protection?
Customer service? Another joke!! Send email after email with no answer. Call on the phone (no-one knows what the heck is going on). As the last resort you can come to the boards and Damon will address your complaints to the correct department.
Seems to me you should work out the bugs and close the loopholes and then charge for your services.
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BigBux
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posted on October 14, 2000 04:34:41 AM new
Maybe the fee structure should be revised to say:
1.9% ($0.25 minimum)
Simple enough!
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