posted on November 1, 2000 05:05:07 AM new
From the PayPal website:
"Shipping to an International Buyer
Please note that if you ship to an International buyer, you do so outside of the Seller Protection Guarantee.
PayPal has taken measures to help prevent fraud and charge backs internationally, including verification of all international buyers' credit cards and limiting sign up access to a list of PayPal Approved Countries. However, risk still exists and you may be held liable for charge backs due to fraud. If you make the decision to ship internationally, we also ask that you take several simple measures which will help minimize your exposure to risk:
- Ship only to countries on our list of approved countries. PayPal has limited its international services to exclude countries which are known to have excessively high rates of credit card fraud. Verify that your buyer's shipping address is indeed within one of the 26 PayPal Approved Countries.
- Only ship internationally to International users. Check the transaction details for the status of the buyer. If they are either "Verified" or "Unverified" as opposed to "International", do not ship an item internationally. Fraudulent international buyers may claim to be U.S. PayPal members to get you to ship to them directly overseas.
- Ship to the address on the Payment Details page. If the buyer's address is shown in the payment details, ship to this address.
Failure to follow these risk-averting business practices may result in restrictions against your account."
posted on November 1, 2000 05:33:22 AM new
And now the rest of the story:
"Please note that if you ship to an International buyer, you do so outside of the Seller Protection Guarantee."
PayPal has pushed its verified sellers out from under that "Seller Protection Guarantee" when it comes to mailing internationally. Has PayPal changed its little "verified seller" logo to reflect that it does not apply to those residing outside the U.S.?
"PayPal has taken measures to help prevent fraud and charge backs internationally, including verification of all international buyers' credit cards and limiting sign up access to a list of PayPal Approved Countries. However, risk still exists and you may be held liable for charge backs due to fraud."
PayPal has not been all that successful in implementing security measures on the use of credit cards used to open PayPal accounts within the U.S.
"If you make the decision to ship internationally, we also ask that you take several simple measures which will help minimize your exposure to risk."
And if a verified seller decides *NOT* to ship internationally, just what does he/she do? Has PayPal implemented an accept/reject check box for international payments so that its verified sellers can make that decision? Or do international payments just get "completed" like everyone else's? And, oh yes, what about the fees should an international payment be returned?
"Failure to follow these risk-averting business practices may result in restrictions against your account."
Since there is no "seller protection guarantee", just what is the *standard* here?
posted on November 1, 2000 06:09:44 AM newPlease note that if you ship to an International buyer, you do so outside of the Seller Protection Guarantee.
In other words, the seller has no protection regardless of where you ship to.
posted on November 1, 2000 08:11:37 AM new
Sellers never had any protection with PP. Neither did buyers. PP just went after the easiest victim to recover the funds. If verification helped anyone, it helped PP because it gave them a bank account to hit. So why should you expect any protection on International deals?
What I dont understand is why PP (and the others) dont automatically send the cardholder's shipping address to the seller. This would cut down at least 95% of the fraud. This should be in place before International, fees and any of the other enhancements that are far less important.
Bottom line: if you're smart, you won't accept ANY international payments via PP or any of the others unless you enjoy risk. http://www.ygoodman.com [email protected]
posted on November 1, 2000 10:19:21 AM new
Ok, let me see if I understand this correctly.
International payments are subject to a .30 charge plus 2.6% for currency conversion, then another .25 plus 1.9% fee for the credit card fees, then another .35% for autosweep. Making a grand total of 55 cents plus 4.85% on International, and no seller protection, no verification of shipping vs. billing address, and no way to reject the payment if you are not confortable with the buyer or suspect fraud.
No wonder PayPal is so excited to add this service.
I have traveled to Asia several times, as well as Canada and Mexico. During my trips I have used Mastercard, Visa, and American Express to make purchases and pay for Hotel rooms in Native Currencies. Never have I been charged a fee from my credit card company to convert the currency.
I process credit card charges for our customers in Europe and Asia every day. Today alone we processed credit card charges from Taiwan, UK, and Germany. Never have we been charged for converting currency.
Just exactly what is the basis for these charges. It obviously is not due to the additional risk of international payments since this risk has been passed on to the sellers. I guess it must just be another way to milk us out of more money.
posted on November 1, 2000 10:43:49 AM new
This international system is a joke. I too have never been charged an currency conversion fee. Looks like they are fooling people, AGAIN!
posted on November 1, 2000 03:41:03 PM new
The seller is NOT paying the 2.6% plus 30 cents-----the international buyer is paying it......you the USA seller---stay the same.
If anyone should be ticked off---it is the International countries. Billpoint charges 1% for currency conversion.
posted on November 1, 2000 04:20:58 PM new
Well, I use a U.S. dollar VISA card which was issued to me here in Canada. I use it to pay eBay fees and for other purchases from the U.S. It sounds as if PayPal would charge me a currency conversion fee even though there is NO currency conversion involved.
posted on November 1, 2000 05:54:19 PM newI have traveled to Asia several times, as well as Canada and Mexico. During my trips I have used Mastercard, Visa, and American Express to make purchases and pay for Hotel rooms in Native Currencies. Never have I been charged a fee from my credit card company to convert the currency.
I take it that you took the price in native currency, determined the prevailing exchange rate at the moment of the transaction, and verified that this was the exchange rate that you received. Otherwise, how would you know whether you were charged a fee by receiving a lower exchange rate? That's what usually happens.
posted on November 1, 2000 06:30:48 PM new
Actually, using credit cards & atm cards provide you with the best exchange rate to buy foreign currency or goods.
There's always a spread between the official or published exchange rates and the rates we little guys get in a currency exchange. The spread is smaller if you use a credit card or atm card than if you change cash at a foreign bank or currency exchange service.
I never carry more than enough cash to take a bus or cab from the airport to my hotel when I travel to other countries. First thing I do after checking in is to hit an atm.
posted on November 2, 2000 04:23:54 AM new
amalgamated2000:
I take it that you took the price in native currency, determined the prevailing exchange rate at the moment of the transaction, and verified that this was the exchange rate that you received.
That is correct. I purchase inventory items for our business and retain receipts to match against our credit card statements. The exchange rate in one of the countries was been between 8.276 and 8.279 for a period of 30 days before and after my last trip. Every transaction was converted at 8.28 to 1 USD. Because of the rounding up, I actually paid less than if the exact rate was used.
Most banks and currency exchange houses have a buy and sell price for each foreign currency. The difference represents their fee / profit for the service. The exchange rate they are able to get is based on the volume of currency they convert. In most cases, a larger bank will offer a better rate than the money exchange houses throughout the tourist centers.
Visa, Mastercard, and American Express do not charge a separate fee for exchanging currency. The foreign currency is based on the exchange rate they are able to obtain when the transaction is processed and the funds are transferred to the Merchant Account. Because Visa, Mastercard, and American Express process so many foreign currency transactions, their exchange rates are among the best in the world.
It is cheaper for me to pay my hotel bill with a credit card and use the credit card company's favorable exchange rate, than to convert cash at a US or Foreign bank and pay cash.
The point I was making in my previous post was that the 1.9% fee charged by PayPal for credit card transactions is to offset the fees charged by the credit card companies. The 2.6% fee for currency conversion has no basis for the charge. There are no such fees being charged to PayPal for converting the currency, and they are not to offset the risk, as the risk is placed clearly on the seller not PayPal. This leaves but one reason for the fees ... because they can.
posted on November 2, 2000 11:13:32 PM new
Sounds fishy to me too. They are charging for a conversion process that they don't do, but my bank does? That can't be legal is it? I buy things from the US all the time and have never been charged for that by the merchant, probably because they have nothing to do with currency conversion!
Did anyone hear about these fees before the launch? I guess we were wrong to assume that we'd be afforded the same "free" personal accounts as US residents.
----------------------------------- Yoda of Borg are we: Futile is resistance. Assimilate you, we will.
