posted on November 3, 2000 05:43:29 PM new
Effective November 10th, 2000
Cut and Paste from PayPal "Terms of Use"
Transactions on or before November 9, 2000
"Purchases from sellers who are Verified Users will be protected up to an aggregate of $5,000 per buyer per year"
Transactions on or after November 10, 2000
"You and other buyers who file claims against the same seller will be entitled to the return of any and all funds PayPal is able to collect from the seller, on a first-come, first-served basis. Recovery of your claim is not guaranteed."
When did they sneak this BS into the User Agreement??? What a bunch of amateurs. They just can't figure out what the rules are going to be. It's free - no it's not free. We won't force you to upgrade - yes we will. We guarantee the transaction if you buy from a verified seller - not any more.
So what was the point in becoming verified? Once again, it looks like another way to get more people to give up their bank account info. Of course, they will never take money out without your permission. They will just reverse the last few deposits instead.
posted on November 3, 2000 08:38:02 PM new
I was reading the new PayPal TOU tonight and it seems to have two different versions which are changing before my eyes. You may want to keep your eye on the page.
Please look at the section under the BUYER PROTECTION POLICY.
I did not sign up with PayPal and cannot logon but this version was posted tonight at another eBay Forum. If you logon and click on POLICY CHANGES on the left:
_____________________________________________
QUOTE
"Buyer Protection Policy
Although the vast majority of PayPal payments occur without problems, should an issue arise, PayPal will work to help settle disputes through our Buyer Protection Policy.
eBay Purchases
For purchases made on eBay using PayPal on or after 11/10/00, buyers may receive up to $200 in additional protection when they qualify for eBay's own insurance policy (currently limited to $200).
If you do not receive the promised goods when using PayPal to make a purchase from a PayPal Verified Seller through eBay, here are the steps you should take:
1.Attempt to contact the seller. Many disputes occur over simple misunderstandings which can be resolved by open communication.
2.If you are unable to resolve the situation this way, immediately contact Customer Service to log a fraud report. To be covered under our Policy, this report must be made within 30 days of the payment. Note that this is not the claim. It is a fraud or scam report.
3.File a Fraud Report and Insurance Claim through eBay. EBay offers insurance to protect the transactions in its community, and PayPal works to independently supplement their program.
4.If eBay’s dispute process is resolved in your favor, within 30 days of the judgment you must contact PayPal customer service in order to file a Claim against the seller. (A Claim is distinct from the Fraud Report described in Step 2; both must be submitted within the periods specified in order to qualify for our Buyer Protection Policy.)
5.You must have Verified your PayPal account prior to filing the Claim with PayPal. Verification proves your identity and helps resolve the investigation process. (You are not required, however, to have been Verified at the time the payment in question was made or when you logged the initial Fraud Report with PayPal.)
Please note that the above process applies only to Verified sellers, so make sure the seller is PayPal-Verified before you pay them. To learn more about filing a claim with eBay, please visit: http://crs.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayisapi.dll?crsstartpage
Non-eBay Purchases
For non-eBay purchases, PayPal will investigate your claim and attempt to recover any funds rightfully owed to you. For purchases made through other online auction communities or other websites, we recommend that you familiarize yourself with their protection policies prior to making a payment. If you are defrauded, please notify PayPal immediately so we can initiate an investigation on your behalf.
To learn more about our policy, please view our Terms of Use.
PayPal, the number one auction payment service, has doubled the protection offered to all buyers on eBay, the number one online auction website. In the future, we plan on expanding this program to other internet marketplaces, as well."
END QUOTE
_____________________________________________
Here is the relevant version from the home page when you click on TERMS OF USE located at the bottom:
____________________________________________
QUOTE
"Buyer Protection Policy
The seller's Verification status will be displayed to you on the PayPal website when you confirm the details of your transaction, giving you the opportunity to cancel the transaction prior to sending payment if you do not want to pay an Unverified seller.
ii. Additional Protection for eBay Auctions
For purchases made on eBay using PayPal, PayPal.com offers an additional layer of protection. If you pay a Verified seller but do not receive your goods, you must first file a claim under eBay’s Insurance Claims process (an “eBay Claim”). If your eBay Claim is granted but does not cover the full amount of your loss, PayPal will reimburse you for up to $200 of such additional losses, whether or not PayPal is able to recover such funds from the seller.
In order to receive this additional protection, you must file a Fraud Report with PayPal within 30 days after the transaction, you must file a claim with PayPal within 30 days after your eBay Claim is granted, and you must be a Verified User when you file your claim with us. To obtain instructions on how to file a claim with PayPal for this additional protection, please visit the Customer Service section of the PayPal Website or contact us by e-mail at [email protected]. You will have to provide a copy of the eBay Claim that you filed and satisfactory evidence that your eBay Claim was granted, so you should retain a copy of these documents. PayPal will seek to reimburse you for your additional losses not covered by the eBay claim, up to $200, within 30 days from the date your claim is filed, though such time frame may be extended if necessary to ensure the accuracy of the claim."
END QUOTE
_____________________________________________
Does anyone see a problem here concerning the buyer's protection or LACK of protection? Who is going to use PayPal for a purchase once their six month $500 credit card limit is used up? The most protection they can hope for without their normal credit card protection is $400, IF they file a claim through eBay's insurance and IF the seller is verified. How do they know if the seller is verified before they bid? BTW, how do you like the way PayPal tells the customer NOT to pay a seller if they aren't verified?
Also, what about the buyer's protection for non-eBay purchases? Their doesn't seem to be any. Who's running this company?
posted on November 3, 2000 09:55:45 PM new
Probably the reason the TOS keeps changing back and forth is because PayPal has two different copies on different servers, and depending on which server you get the page from for that time, you get that copy.
Can't say I'm too impressed with that either though.
posted on November 4, 2000 05:35:28 AM new
Geezuz christ.
Does PayPal still have a copy of their OLD Buyer Guarantee on file somewhere? (Or does anyone here have a copy of that text on file?)
I'm currently negotiating with a somewhat suspicious company, but they're a verified buisness account, and their old PROMISE of $5000 coverage was enough to have me go ahead with the deal. I figured, it's only a few hundred bucks... paid through my Nextcard, which also guarantees 100% against internet fraud... I'll take the gamble.
Now they change the rules? What the hell? It's that even allowed?
posted on November 4, 2000 05:47:18 AM new
Here is the old policy:
A. Transactions on or before November 9, 2000:
If after contacting the seller you are unable to resolve the dispute and the seller has not shipped the goods, and if you have filed a Fraud Report no later than 30 days after the purchase transaction, you may file a claim with PayPal.com for reimbursement of non-receipt of goods. Purchases from sellers who are Verified Users will be protected up to an aggregate of $5,000 per buyer per year. Claims must be filed not earlier than 30 days after the date of payment, and not later than 60 days from the date of payment. To obtain instructions on how to file a claim, please visit the Customer Service section of the PayPal Website or contact us by e-mail at [email protected].
This is still listed in their user agreement, but will most likely be removed after Nov 10th so you might want to visit the site and print it out. The link is listed above in a previous post.
posted on November 4, 2000 05:51:23 AM new
If you paid on or before November 9, you are still covered under the old guarantee, and it is still in the TOS...but if you want a copy, I'd grab it before they delete it.
"A. Transactions on or before November 9, 2000:
If after contacting the seller you are unable to resolve the dispute and the seller has not shipped the goods, and if you have filed a Fraud Report no later than 30 days after the purchase transaction, you may file a claim with PayPal.com for reimbursement of non-receipt of goods. Purchases from sellers who are Verified Users will be protected up to an aggregate of $5,000 per buyer per year. Claims must be filed not earlier than 30 days after the date of payment, and not later than 60 days from the date of payment. To obtain instructions on how to file a claim, please visit the Customer Service section of the PayPal Website or contact us by e-mail at [email protected]."
posted on November 5, 2000 02:18:29 PM new
With their most recent statements of coverage regarding ebay's $200 cap and PayPal matching only $200 I think their underwriter is coming down on them.
I am guessing that they are experiencing an incredible amount of fraud claims and their insurance company is threatening not to cover them unless they reduce their liability or they lost one company completely and this was the deal struck with another.
It's merely a guess but it would make sense since their terms are changing so rapidly.
