posted on November 15, 2000 09:25:24 AM new
I was verified through my account with x.com. Since they are closing I opened an account with Compubank but Paypal said it did not count towards verification. Probably because I did not sign the wire transfer agreement and no one can touch my funds. Kinda unfair since Paypal does know I have an account and they make it look like they don't. The know I do because I can transfer money into it!
Anyway, my question is: After doing this my account not only says "unverified", but it says "To Activate Your Account" and then requests a new bank account information. Help! Does this mean I am "not active" I will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER well I guess I might as well admit it, I just couldn't type that enough to let you know how strongly I feel, give you my personal bank account as verification, so what do I do now. If I just plain cannot use the service anymore I will just have to state so in the auctions and low sales or not, just give up! Please reply ASAP, as I need to know before I list anymore auctions.
posted on November 15, 2000 02:23:29 PM new
That's really strange Re: Compubank.
I have a Compubank account and it worked perfectly to verify my PayPal account (and no, I never signed the wire transfer agreement either - besides, PayPal does ACH transfers). Also, when I opened my Compubank account the customer rep (on the telephone) told me that lots of their customers use PayPal without trouble.
How/when did PayPal tell you it didn't count towards verification? Is it possible you entered an incorrect routing or account number (I did that the first time - oops!) If I were you, I'd double check on that or try it again.
posted on November 15, 2000 06:46:29 PM new
Damon
You must be JOKING!!!!!
You won't verify an account at an FDIC-insured institution simply because it's not b&m??????
Are you afraid Compubank is going to shut down as quickly as X.com?
Or is it because these online federally-insured BANKS are competition for what PayPal hopes to become -- an UNINSURED online NON-BANK that offers checking accounts and debit cards?
I'd really like to hear the justification for this one!
posted on November 15, 2000 07:12:35 PM new
HUH !!!!
Damon and paypal Must be jokeing, "brick and mortar" institution , so what your saying is is PayPal a leader in the oneline creditcard services has no faith in online banks such as compubank ????
I would like you to define "brick and mortar" institution here are you saying you believe compubank does bussiness in the tops of trees ???
posted on November 15, 2000 08:14:18 PM new
Damon,
If that's the case, what about those of us who have already verified our accounts through Compubank?
I mean I DID have to provide my DL#, social security number, and they have verified that I am who I say I am with these forms of ID (and a credit check....)...
My PayPal account is in fact Verified with a Compubank checking account (yes, its the only bank account attached to my PayPal account) - is it going to suddenly turn up unverified one day?
I opened the Compubank account JUST for PayPal.. and the rules keep changing and changing and changing....
I really hope I'm "grandfathered"
-OnlineAuctions (but not anywhere but here!)
posted on November 15, 2000 08:55:19 PM new
That is really strange -- regarding brick and mortar!
Anyway, I contacted paypal because I did not like them saying "To Activate your Account" provide bank information. Why didn't they just say "To Verify Your Account".
They assured me I my account was active and I could continue operations this way. Now I want to know for how long and is there limitations to an "unverified" premier account? I will post another question because Damon probably won't return to this thread and see what he says.
I don't know why Paypal is insisting on self-destructing!
posted on November 16, 2000 06:32:30 AM newI opened the Compubank account JUST for PayPal.. and the rules keep changing and changing and changing...
And I'll bet that you have no intention of keeping any cash to speak of in this account, right?
PayPal knows this. That's why they will require a "brick and mortar" bank account. You'll be more likely to keep cash in a brick and mortar bank account than in an on-line bank account that was set up just for PayPal. They want to be assured of having at least a chance to confiscate funds from your bank account whenever it becomes "your turn".
posted on November 16, 2000 08:29:24 AM new
damon you have got to be joking....paypal never said that. (AND YOU BETTER NOT CHANGE THE TOS AGAIN TOMORROW.) where did you come up with brick and mortar bit in the first place?? Quite frankly, you people are scaring me now and i will not trust to use your service anymore.
posted on November 16, 2000 09:03:17 AM new
It makes sense for Paypal to insist on a B&M bank. After all, they have done a major B.M. all over their customers.
posted on November 16, 2000 09:20:33 AM new
I believe that this is related to the fact that certain banks are now refusing ACH transfers from Paypal.
If so, this confirms that verification has nothing to do with depositing funds into your account. As many people have pointed out: Why would anyone transfer money into an account that they don't have access to?
I believe the point of verification is to allow Paypal to offer you the opportunity to pay from your bank account. This transaction costs them nothing, yet they still charge business accounts the same charge as if it came from a credit card.
I just added my new Wingspan.com account to my Paypal account and received a message that I could transfer money into this account, but not from it. Since I already had another verified account, I didn't think much of it at the time, but now it's all beginning to make sense.
And once again, my problem is not with the way this is all set up. If that's the way that Paypal wants to handle it, that's their business. However, it's pretty clear that Paypal is not being honest about what's going on here.
I revisited the information. There are some on-line banks that are not acceptable for verification and I will try to have a list later (it does NOT mean all on-line banks are not uasable).
Again, having a verified bank account, or any bank account information on file, does not give us access to withdraw money from your bank account without your explicit permission. It is in the terms of use and it is regulated by federal law.
posted on November 16, 2000 09:57:26 AM new
abingdoncomputers,
Actually I _do_ keep money in my Compubank account (I know, I know). Not a ton, but when I have "extra" (ha! what's extra money??) I tend to invest it rather than let it sit in a low-interest bank account.
I haven't said much regarding PayPal, but it is a little scary that their ever-changing TOS has the potential to really mess things up for a business...
Even though my feedback is excellent, I'm sure it won't be a huge confidence booster for my customers if one day my account shows up as Unverified (though I've already jumped through more hoops than should be necessary).
Here's to hoping my Compubank-verified PayPal account stays tht way.
posted on November 16, 2000 10:28:51 AM new
This really gets worse with every day. If they are only "accepting" certain banks it must have something to do with their ability to get funds from them.
So Damon, you are going to make me out to look like a "shady" character who is "unverified" just because you cannot get funds from my bank? Why not just say I do not have a bank where you can go to play! I don't have charge-backs! I refund money myself if there is a problem with a customer -- although I have never had to do that because I have always had satisfied customers!!!
I also keep money in my Paypal account. Especially when I know I am going to buy something so I can just use the money I have earned to make purchases. I'm going to give this about a week and then I quit altogether, and insist on checks or money orders. I know that will hurt sales, but this is just too much. I have done EVERYTHING Paypal has asked! I became verified, I gave you all my information, I opened a new account when YOU closed the one I was using, I pay you a large percent of my profits (since most of my sales are small) since I upgraded voluntarily as requested, and I keep money in your account.
posted on November 16, 2000 12:30:42 PM new
why would certain online banks not be allowed? i'm beginning to believe the theory put forth by abding
[i]And I'll bet that you have no intention of keeping any cash to speak of in this account, right?
PayPal knows this. That's why they will require a "brick and mortar" bank account. You'll be more likely to keep cash in a brick and mortar bank account than in an on-line bank account that was set up just for PayPal. They want to be assured of having at least a chance to confiscate funds from your bank account whenever it becomes "your turn".[/i]
As for never access your money bit, that's already been blown out of the water.
posted on November 16, 2000 12:38:57 PM new
As a matter of fact, I do intend to keep money in this account. My husband and I want to save a little this next year and we decided to try and leave the money I received through Paypal in the bank and pretend it wasn't there.
I never did trust X.Com (now I see that was a correct thought since they are closing in less than a year for whatever reason!), but Compubank seems to be pretty well established and I have no problems with leaving money there.
I'm still going to leave it open and hopefully some online payment service will come along I can depend on. I don't know why buyers don't seem to like Billpoint, but I never seem to get any takers. I don't really push it because of the 48 hour shipping policy and I prefer to hold shipping down to 2 days a week.
Anyway, I guess we will just have to wait and see what Damon says about which banks are "Paypal approved". Maybe I'll switch, but then again maybe I won't really trust them either!
posted on November 16, 2000 01:13:47 PM new
Damon, you can make the "we will not withdraw without permission blah blah blah and there are laws against that" all you want but given your company's history why should we believe you? And Paypal isn't exactly regulated either.
And again, though you have the statement saying "not without permission" it is not difficult to circumvent it. You could easily put a new section in your TOS tomorrow that goest something like this
"In the event that Paypal determines that funds were fraudulently obtained or for whatever reason do not correctly belong to recipient, the user agrees to give permission to Paypal to confiscate available funds in his/her Paypal account and bank account if necessary."
There's goes my explicit permission!
Again, given your company's actions in these past few months, it's not difficult to imagine such a scenario.
Doh maybe i shouldn't have said this. Don't wanna give paypal ideas.
posted on November 16, 2000 01:15:14 PM new
I think abingdon is right, too. PayPal is operating on the theory that we're more likely to keep money in a b&m account than in an online account.
WRONG.
I have a secondary b&m account, too, in a bank close to the spot where I spend my weekends. I don't keep any money to speak of in it either.
In fact, my online bank account has more money in it than my weekend b&m bank account.
I'd never be foolish enough to link my main bank account to some upstart online payment service like PayPal.
So if PayPal's on a money hunt, it had better look elsewhere.
posted on November 16, 2000 01:20:43 PM newAgain, having a verified bank account, or any bank account information on file, does not give us access to withdraw money from your bank account without your explicit permission. It is in the terms of use and it is regulated by federal law.
Damon:
Very few among us still believe this line. It's quite foolish to continue using it at this point.
Do you want the public to take PayPal seriously or not?
A few people were never fooled by this line.
A few people will always be fooled by this line.
The vast majority of users are not stupid and they can see past this smokescreen.
When are you guys going to take the bull by the horns and act in a responsible way and allow your users (and potential users) to actually trust you?
posted on November 16, 2000 01:23:57 PM new
Hi tc61380,
All withdrawals, deposits, etc., are federally regulated items. This applies to all money transferring services sending money to a bank account, banking institutions,etc.
We will not withdraw funds from a user's bank account without their permission.
Damon, you can make the "we will not withdraw without permission blah blah blah and there are laws against that" all you want but given your company's history why should we believe you? And Paypal isn't exactly regulated either.
posted on November 16, 2000 01:28:42 PM new
Damon:
I can't change your opinion on an item that is federally regulated and that we comply with.
I have many opinions as you well know. But my previous post is not an opinion. It's a fact proven by the many threads where PayPal has done just exactly what you and your TOU of the day say that you will never do.
posted on November 16, 2000 01:58:06 PM new
Damon, appreciate your replies and I understand that you are not the company, please don't take anything I write personally. I'd just like to know a few things tho...
1. What exactly is your position at Paypal, what is the scope of your power? What, if any, decisions or statements can you make on behalf of Paypal? I'm just curious, not trying to put you down or anything. Is it possible that you give a breakdown of the structure at x.com?
2. Still haven't answered my original question, why would certain online banks be allowed and not others?
3. And I know electronic transfers and banking items as such are federally regulated. The transfer itself is regulated, and banks are, but YOU (Paypal), the actions of the company, aren't. PayPal isn't regulated in any such way as a bank, perhaps just as a corporation, which is very different. So given that, why couldn't the scenario I put forth about Paypal changing its TOS oh so slightly to allow access happen? And though i may not know all the details about Julia Shumko's case, from what she posted, it does not look good for your company.
posted on November 16, 2000 02:41:30 PM new
Damon:
I never accused Paypal of being able to just "take" money from personal accounts. What they can and often do is make "chargebacks" even months after the transaction!
When I go to local auctions and buy everything I see (which much to my husband's dismay I often do) I leave very little in our personal account above and beyond the money for our bills! Then I sell this and start all over! If you charged back a large item from a month or two ago whether the buyer requested it or you received the famous "fradulant" credit card information -- I would be UP THE CREEK and I do not plan on allowing that to happen! Especially with the Holidays approaching.
The ONLY reason you could possibly give to accepting some banks and not others would have to be that some just don't allow your type of unreasonable seizure! All are FDIC and I understand lots of people use Compubank and were considered verified before Paypal's latest DEMANDS came to pass!
What will they be tomorrow! How long can we play this game. I was one of your "fans" long after others bailed. I loved your service, but I do have limits. You are in danger of losing everything you have built whether or not you are willing to accept that fact! We, the sellers, do control what we will and will not accept!
Edited to add:
Also, for the record, I am a well educated individual who is used to dealing with businesses and all the rules they hand out. I have a BBA in Accounting and an MBA in Business Administration. For years I was Director Of Finance for a large organization. I dealt with Government audits, banks and just about everyone else. However, Paypal is the MOST unprofessionally ran organization I have ever ran across! No other large business, especially one that wants to handle large sums of people's money, would change their rules and requirements on an endless daily basis!
You should be aware that just the fact that x.com couldn't or chose not to stay open has caused more than just a little concern over the safety of our money. If you wanted a bank where you had control of our money you should have left that one open! But then again, maybe you couldn't?
[ edited by lindajean on Nov 16, 2000 02:46 PM ]
posted on November 16, 2000 02:42:31 PM new
Re: federal regulation of transfers.
paypaldamon is correct, any transfer from a real bank account must comply to rules set down by the federal government.
These rules, for example, require that the transfer be authorized.
What they don't do, as many have pointed out, is control what PayPal can do once they have authorization.
As part of the verification process, PayPal demands authorization to withdraw from the referenced bank account.
PayPal has never been honest regarding this process, and are not currently being honest. What they want is a way to twist when they think they're entitled to twist, to reclaim money they think is theirs.
PayPal is being particularly deceptive when they trot out the existence of federal regularions as something which is particularly relevant in this context.
However, there is one part of that federal regulation that PayPal won't tell you about.
Any withdrawal from a federally regulated bank account is subject to a claim of forgery by the account owner. This claim must be asserted in a timely fashion, but any PayPal withdrawal could be reversed in this way, and PayPal would have a very difficult time reversing this process.
Make sure you never give PayPal written permission to do any withdrawal, ever. If you did not give written permission, any withdrawal is technically a forgery, and you can invoke this claim when you think it is appropriate.
posted on December 18, 2000 02:36:31 PM new
8. Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy described in Part IV of this User Agreement, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender’s transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card charge-back by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized bank account. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means. You authorize PayPal to charge your credit card or debit card in the amount of any debt to PayPal. You authorize PayPal to obtain a credit report on you in the event that you incur a debt to PayPal.
Looks like it won't be long before BANK ACCOUNT is thrown in there.
