posted on April 10, 2001 07:32:37 AM new
ON FEB.5TH I CALLED AND EMAILED PAYPAL AND REQUESTED THEY STOP ALLOWING PEOPLE TO SEND ME MONEY,THEY DIDN'T. MY ACCOUNT HAD A NEGATIVE BALANCE IN IT AND THEY TOOK OTHER PEOPLES MONEY REDUCE THE BALANCE. LATER THEY PROMISED TO REFUND THESE PEOPLE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY REALIZED IT WAS STEALING AND WERE THREATENED WITH LEGAL ACTION. THEY ONLY DID IT,I FOUND OUT, FOR PEOPLE THAT GOT NASTY WITH THEM.I GOT A CALL FROM A CUSTOMER YESTERDAY THAT HAD SENT ME $90.00 ON FEB.9.HE TOLD ME PAYPAL REFUSED TO REFUND HIS MONEY. TODAY APRIL 10 I GOT ANOTHER FRAUDLENT FUND REVERSAL. TWO MONTHS AFTER I STOPPED DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM.{NOW TELL ME JUST WHERE DOES IT END.}
WHEN YOU READ THIS READ THE OTHER "HORROR STORIES" ASK YOURSELF SHOULD I DO BUSINESS WITH THEM.
THE ANSWER SHOULD BE PLAIN CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNT.
I USE WESTERN UNION,MONEYGRAM,BANKWIRES,MONEY ORDERS AND GUESS WHAT NO----CHARGEBACKS
ASK YOURSELF IS THE MONEY BETTER IN MY POCKET OR "PAYPALS"
posted on April 10, 2001 11:38:29 AM new
club1man is making a number of incorrect and possibly illegal assertions about PayPal on a number of public Internet forums. The simple truth of the matter is that club1man's e-gold business attracted a large number of credit card payments that were unauthorized or disputed, and "charged back." As is standard in the payments processing industry, and in accordance with our Terms of Use, PayPal paid these "chargebacks" and then sought to hold club1man liable for these repudiated payments, as we do for any seller who has not qualified for our generous Seller Protection Policy. club1man did not qualify for this protection due to the nature of his business, has refused to abide by our Terms of Use, and has refused to accept his financial and legal responsibilities to our company. As a result, we have ceased doing business with Mr. Brodie and will pursue legal action to recover the funds he owes us. We believe he may now be seeking to further avoid the legal ramifications of his actions by spreading erroneous information about our company. This, too, will be the subject of any legal proceeding.
PayPal's 7 million members send over $8 million in nearly 200,000 separate payments through our network each day. Very few of these transactions ever result in a dispute. To help protect members against those that do, we provide a Seller Protection Policy, that holds sellers harmless against chargebacks if they take certain preventative measures. This has helped PayPal maintain one of the lowest fraud rates in the industry and to become the #1 online payment service. Thank you for your interest and support of PayPal."
posted on April 10, 2001 12:08:04 PM new
This brings up a good point. You two can cut and paste but I am going to retype mine
All I know about this is what has been said in messages posted around here on AW. This is for a buyers protection which is the case where I got taken by Papal.
You see this statement in the above post MY ACCOUNT HAD A NEGATIVE BALANCE IN IT AND THEY TOOK OTHER PEOPLES MONEY REDUCE THE BALANCE This account got negative from charge backs coming in. The people that used Credit Cards to pay from got their money back by charging back againsed PayPal.
If you use you PayPal balance to pay for something and you need to charge back for some reason then your SOL. You have to follow PayPal rules and those rules are in PayPals favor not yours.
Remember to always empty your account down to 0 before paying for something and remember to use a credit card if you can as the source of funds so you have some rights. It has been said many times before in other posts but this is another good place for it. PayPal has no rules to follow, they are not a bank or credit card company. They make them up as they go as a simple service provider.
Never, Never, Never pay for anything with funds in your account. I know I got taken for about $40.00, put in a claim and after a couple of months of trying to figure out what was going on I finally got the too bad note that there was no funds in the persons account to give me back. If I had used a credit card I could have got back at PayPal at least, their the ones that gave this company a verified premier don't worry your protected account. Always worry cause your almost never protected by PayPal.
Wheeeeew, next time I am going to cut and paste too.
posted on April 10, 2001 01:45:07 PM new
my answer to pal damon
UNFORTUNATELY YOUR COMPANY IS USING YOU IN A FRUITLESS ATTEMPT TO INTERVENE WITH THEIR DISELLUSIONED CUSTOMERS.IF NOT WHY DID THEY TRY TO SHUT ME UP WITH A "DEAL" READ AND WEEP
* We will share the chargeback cost 50 / 50. i.e. todate this amounts
to 33 k of charge backs. We would recredit your account for $16.5K. We
would not normally do this as we believe we have a strong case, but we will
make an exception in recognition of your support to Paypal and to avoid
unnecessary legal costs which we would both incur.
* All further requests from your customers for refunds or delivery of
gold relating to earlier transactions would be absorbed by you.
* If you provide us with specific instances where we took the charge
back from your account and your customer did not get compensated or did
not file a charge back we will compensate you or the customer - whichever is
applicable. We are not aware of these cases.
* For circumstances where your customer is a legitimate account, but
has received funds from stolen credit cards we will not hold your account
liable. For circumstances where the sender of funds is or was part of a
plan/scheme for laundering or misusing such funds from stolen credit cards,
your account will be held liable. We are not currently aware of any cases
of the former situation at this time, if you provide specific instances we
will reimburse you
* You will not engage in negative feedback about us to reporters,
other web users, boards etc, you may give positive feedback if you find
our product continues to enhance your business - but that is your call
(this is no way to be construed as a payoff/bribe). If queried about the
issue of charge backs you will indicate to others that your issue with
Paypal has been resolved.
* PP will not say anything negative about you. If your customers ask
us, we will say your business is ok, we have no knowledge of any negative
business practices. We retain the right to give our views on the e-gold
business, including but not limited to the view that the business is of
higher risk to us.
* If any of the parties break the pact they will be charged 2 times
the amount they settled on. "Negative" will be defined in the settlement
document.
Going forward:
* If we receive more charge backs on past items we will share them
50/50.
* Normally this business would be subject to higher rates due to the
higher risk, but we will charge our normal rates on the condition that you
use e-check only to accept payments. This is in recognition of your support
for PP in the past.
* If there is a repudiation of an e-check it will be your liability.
All the above points will be embodied in a settlement document which both
parties will need to sign off on.
This is my complaint with PP which all of your spin has not addressed. I don't want to go into whether Stoney messed up or PP. It doesnt make a difference whether he followed the TOS or not. The problem is that his account is restricted and he has asked PP repeatedly to STOP ACCEPTING MONEY. They are still accepting money and stealing it from innocent people in order to recover their previous losses. This would be like a seller telling a customer "I'm keeping your money because someone else cheated me." There is no excuse for this. Stoney's account has been restricted for weeks. It is obvious that he has no intention to ever use your "service" again. So close it down and stop taking money from other innocent victims.
Yisgood and club1man are incorrect: PayPal stopped allowing club1man's account to accept payments in February, and then subsequently closed his account. PayPal also refunded all payments made to the account after it was restricted, so no later customer's payment was used to address the negative balance in club1man's account.
Club1man still owes PayPal funds to cover his negative balance and has made incorrect and possibly illegal statments on these boards before. PayPal is currently pursuing legal action against Club1man
posted on April 11, 2001 01:57:41 PM new
AGAIN I MUST POINT OUT THE INCORRECT STATEMENTS MADE
FIRST. HE SAYS ALL PAYMENTS WERE REFUNDED. THAT IS FALSE I GOT AN EMAIL TODAY FROM A CUSTOMER STATING HE CALLED PAYPAL AND THEY REFUSED TO REFUND HIS MONEY.I HAVE THE EMAIL AS PROOF
SECOND. HE SAYS PAYPAL CLOSED MY ACCOUNT AND STOPPED DOING BUSINESS WITH ME.AGAIN FALSE, I REQUESTED MY ACCOUNT BE CLOSED. THEY DID NOT, I PLEADED WITH THEM TO STOP ACCEPTING MONIES THEY DID NOT, AND FURTHER MORE MY ACCOUNT TO THIS DAY DOES NOT SAY CLOSED IT SAYS IT IS "LOCKED". PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG EXCEPT PAYPAL. I HAVE MY PROOF, DO YOU HAVE YOURS.
posted on April 16, 2001 06:36:37 PM new
So, Damon...
What happened to Paypal's usual "we can't comment publicly on any user's account" baloney?
Here you are commenting in detail on this user's account, but when any other user asks for help, it's always "we can't comment". I guess that's just another Paypal lie, huh Damon???
People ask for help, and all they get is your LIES -- we can't comment. Looks to me like Paypal just spins (lies) in every direction, whatever suits them at the moment.
Ijust got an e-mail telling that I am no longer verified because my bank account is closed. Well, the only reason my bank account (X.com) is closed is because Paypal was too incompetent or dishonest to run a bank, and had to shut down the whole thing.
How does Paypal's incompetence or dishonesty reflect badly on *my* honesty or integrity?
Spin that one, Damon.
P.S. I certainly won't give you an account number to let Paypal steal from my bank account when it has, just in this thread, proven that it cannot do anything else but lie. So don't give me the "we'll never do that" LIE, because Paypal can't seem to say anything that's not a lie.
You just got caught this time -- again. "We can't comment publicly on any user's personal situation", and then you rattle on for paragraphs about this guy. Spin away, Damon. But you've been caught.
Please review the terms of use where it says that Paypsal can change anything on a whim (including the terms about bank account withdrawals).
And please review the case in which you finally admitted that Paypal DID take money out of a user's bank account without authorization (the woman who was scammed by a Romanian named George; I forget her name).
So don't expect me to giveyou access to my bank account when Paypal has proven so many times that it cannot be trusted.
It's certainly amusing that the one case you comment on is one where Paypal is willing to pay the user $16,000 and reinstate his account, but only if he agrees to be silenced. It seems like his comments must be pretty appropriate -- and accurate -- if Paypal is willing to spend that much to shut him up.
