posted on June 30, 2001 11:24:18 PM new
I have two cases pending on shipments that haven't arrived.
What does paypal accept as proof of shipping.
Will USPS delivery confirmation be enough?
Do I also have to insure with USPS?
posted on July 2, 2001 09:17:30 AM new
Hi paislydaisy,
Yes, delivery confirmation is adequate. Any method of shipping that can be tracked online is proof (for our our Seller Protection Program). I don't believe that insurance (through USPS) is trackable online, but I could be wrong.
posted on July 3, 2001 03:41:28 PM new
Hi there,
I have one case where they reversed the payment pending investigation. Since the first shipment was sent via first class mail, I had no proof of delivery. I then proceeded to use delivery confirmation on the re-shipment of merchandise. I have forwarded all the tracking info to the investigations dept. which can be tracked online as being delivered. That was on June 15th. All of heard was that investigations take about 40 days. How much longer should I wait until someone verifies that the package has been received? It takes only 30 seconds to verify. I have been happy using paypal, and wouldn't want to discontiue using them over a $38 transaction, but if I show proof of delivery and still haven't had the funds transferred back, I wonder what protection I have as a seller. I already have a merchant account and can process the payments myself, but would still like to offer paypal as a convenience. Any ideas?
posted on July 3, 2001 08:22:20 PM new
Confirm or deny this, please, paypaldamon, that the seller protection policy requires proof of shipping. (i.e., not proof of delivery.)
In other words, if I take my endicia.com generated electronic Delivery Confirmation prepaids and drop them in any mailbox, that does not constitute proof of shipping according to paypal - since they will not be scanned until mid-route or delivery, or possibly even not at all.
I am not trying to be confrontational with this post, I just want to make sure that I am following the process.
In other words, if I take my endicia.com generated electronic Delivery Confirmation prepaids and drop them in any mailbox, that does not constitute proof of shipping according to paypal - since they will not be scanned until mid-route or delivery, or possibly even not at all.
If you are persistent, and you ask paypaldamon about this a couple of dozen times, he may eventually admit (although only grudgingly) that delivery confirmation is only acceptable when the item is scanned.
packer posted on May 2, 2001 07:18:34 PM
Thank you damon,
I do understand that you have said that DC is acceptable proof 4,000+ times already.
Now for the next 4,000+ times in the future when your asked suppose you tell us "DC is acceptable form of proof PROVIDED it gets scanned" furthermore if it DOES NOT get scanned you are SOL!
Remember...I work for the post office and there rate for scanning on a daily basis is about 93%(that is just for our area) the other 7% DOES NOT get scanned.
paypaldamon posted on May 2, 2001 08:53:37 PM
Hi packer,
Thanks. I was not aware that you worked for the post office (or didn't remember).
The easy answer is---any method of tracking that can be done on-line is acceptable for Paypal. As far as the disclaimer for scanning, I can throw that into future responses, but I was kind of hoping that many people would understand that on their own.
posted on July 5, 2001 10:01:17 PM new
mrpotatoheadd,
If you are persistent, and you ask paypaldamon about this a couple of dozen times, he may eventually admit (although only grudgingly) that delivery confirmation is only acceptable when the item is scanned.
The above statement from your post violates the rules of basic ettiquette as outlined in our Community Guidelines.
Continuing to post in this vein may place your posting privileges in jeopardy.
posted on July 6, 2001 05:20:02 AM new
Thanks, mrpotatohead, for the thread - actually I posted this same question in that thread way back when, and did not get a response from paypaldamon at that time either.
I am sure that ppd thinks that we are just trying to be jerks or nitpicks about this, but this is a very real issue to me, and we have never gotten a concrete answer.
I am trying to follow the paypal rules and use DC. As far as I can tell, according to the current information (or lack thereof), there is no way to meet the paypal proof of shipping requirement other than go to the post office and wait in line to get the packages scanned.
Last week I mailed 50+ packages. Not only was that a long wait in line, but a long time for the post office to scan all those packages. I am trying to grow my business and the only way I can do it is take vacation from my real job or else hire someone to go stand in line at the post office for me.
Especially knowing that there exists a solution whereby I would not have to stand in line (at all!) or hire an employee ... namely endicia.com ... makes this all the more irritating
Paypal, in its justifications for fee increases, calls itself a growing company which adjusts to an ever changing market. Can't you adjust your tracking rules to include proof of delivery?
Any method of shipping that can be tracked on-line is proof for our methods.
However, as I have stated in the past, PayPal has no control over whether an organization will actually scan your packages. The dispute about a non-scanned package, which could impact the Seller Protection Program, would then be an issue between the seller and the shipping agency.
While I certainly understand the concern, it is something that we have no control over. I also don't think, based on the experiences I have had with users, that it is a widespread problem (or one that is likely to occur).
posted on July 6, 2001 12:39:59 PM newHowever, as I have stated in the past, PayPal has no control over whether an organization will actually scan your packages.
Nobody is asking PayPal to accept responsibility for physically scanning the item.
The dispute about a non-scanned package, which could impact the Seller Protection Program, would then be an issue between the seller and the shipping agency.
Nobody is asking PayPal to become involved in a dispute between the seller and shipper regarding the actual scanning (or lack thereof).
However, the use of could in this phrase:
...could impact the Seller Protection Program...
would seem to indicate that there are some circumstances in which a non-scanned item would affect a customer's coverage, and some circumstances which would not affect that coverage. Otherwise, why not just say "will impact the Seller Protection Program..."?
Now, this brings up the question of what types of situations are affected (and what types are not) in the event a package is not scanned by the shipping company.
It might help PayPal users to be given an example of each of these situations, so that they might better understand their position with regards to any coverage they may or may not be entitled to.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jul 6, 2001 12:41 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2001 12:43:26 PM new
Hi mrpotatohead,
I would think that the user would understand(hopefully) that the claim would probably be denied without the proof. If the proof is not there, the party would have to go back to that shipping agency to help clear up the claim (by correcting the error,etc).
If a problem with proof exists, and the user can get some information from the shipping carrier to document the issue, it would seem pretty logical that we could work with that.
I am not sure why this is such an issue to understand. If you don't have proof, and you can't get it, you are running the risk of having liability for the chargeback(s).
posted on July 6, 2001 01:05:14 PM newI am not sure why this is such an issue to understand. If you don't have proof, and you can't get it, you are running the risk of having liability for the chargeback(s).
I have no illusions regarding your stand on proof of shipping. I am not the only person reading these boards, however. If you read above, you will see a post by another PayPal user who is still trying to get some clarification from you on this issue.
I am not sure why you will not just come right out and tell people...
"If your item is not scanned, then you are not covered."
instead of saying something vague, like
"you are running the risk of having liability for the chargeback"
or
"which could impact the Seller Protection Program"
Surely, you must understand that saying "running a risk" or "could impact" does not require a necessary outcome in one direction (covered by the seller protection program) or the other (not covered by the seller protection program).
Are there are any situations in which a seller would be covered without proof of shipping? I doubt it, and I don't understand why you are going to such lengths to avoid saying so in no uncertain terms.
posted on July 6, 2001 01:24:09 PM new
From the Seller Protection Policy page:
-------------------
Retain reasonable proof-of-shipment that can be tracked online
Always keep proof that you did indeed honor the payment and made the shipment to the Confirmed Address. Most U.S. carrier companies offer this service, including the U.S. Postal Service. You will be required to provide a copy of this shipment record in cases of disputes. The tracking documentation must show that you shipped to the Confirmed Address
--------------------
And the Terms of Use page:
----------------------
Seller Protection Policy. Beginning August 23, 2000, PayPal agrees to indemnify sellers of physical goods for chargeback liability resulting from a buyer's unauthorized use of a credit card and/or false claims of non-shipment of goods, for payments received by the seller through PayPal of up to $5,000 per year, if the following conditions are met:
1. The seller is a Verified Business or Verified Premier Account (U.S.).
2. The seller ships to the buyer's Confirmed Address.
3. The seller can provide reasonable proof-of-shipment which can be tracked online. This documentation must show that you shipped to the Confirmed Address. (Most U.S. carrier companies offer this service, including the U.S. Postal Service.) Because comparable proof-of-shipment is not currently available for electronically-delivered items, we are currently unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other electronically-delivered items.
4. The seller accepted a single payment from only one PayPal account for the purchase. (Multiple payments from different accounts for a single item are a fraud indicator. Sellers should not accept such payments.)
5. The seller ships to a domestic (U.S.) buyer at a U.S. address.
----------------------------
At present, I'm only familiar with the tracking for Delivery Confirmation by the USPS as a seller....
These ongoing discussions have brought up a good point....the difference between confirmed shipment and confirmed delivery.
I, like most average sellers, would think that when I submit a DC form at the PO, and receive a stamped receipt back with the number on it, that I would have proof of shipment. Obviously, as has been discussed here, that isn't necessarily the case.
My first clue to a problem would be when I checked the DC online and saw it hadn't been scanned....hmmm....maybe mrpotatoheadd could suggest a course of action to handle that situation (my small-town PO has enough on their hands just scanning DC's...I wouldn't want to over-burden them
Also, what happens if a non-scanned (shipment) DC package gets a delivery scan?
Although I think Damon has made it clear how PP interprets their policy, I submit that a clearer explanation of it in their online documentation would save sellers and himself a good deal of work and explanation...
Had I not been a regular here and read these posts, I would have been oblivious...
Pat
Edited for UBB flub...and then to remove it entirely
[ edited by camachinist on Jul 6, 2001 01:29 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2001 02:17:04 PM new
I watch very carefully to make sure that every insurance/DC whatever is scanned properly. The DC# shows up on the cash receipt I get from the PO - so I know it was scanned...
Is it pain to have to go through the line for DC? yes, but its worth it to know you stood there and watched them scan it in.
posted on July 6, 2001 08:52:46 PM newpaypaldamon, let me put it to you this way.
I think we are actually dealing with two separate questions here. The case where a package is never scanned, due to post office incompetence, and the case where a package is not scanned at send time but is scanned subsequently.
Obviously Paypal cannot be responsible for the first scenario where the package was never scanned.
The second scenario is the fuzzy one. Paypal policy clearly says proof of shipment is required. Technically there is no proof of shipment in this case, although the item was obviously sent and trackable, and proof of delivery is evident.
All I want to know is - do we really need a hard proof of shipment, or will proof of delivery be sufficient? This is a critical difference because one means standing in line at the USPS and paying for DC, where the other means just drop it in the mail slot and get DC for free using endicia.com.
posted on July 22, 2001 09:52:58 AM new
PPD: I agree with wbbell...
What am I missing here? If the PO website shows that the package was delivered--"proof of delivery"--then doesn't that prove that the item was shipped--"proof of shipment"?
How could you possibly get a "proof of delivery" if you hadn't shipped it?
[ edited by vobistdu on Jul 22, 2001 09:55 AM ]
posted on July 25, 2001 09:57:48 AM new
Kat- Under seller protection, it states that a seller should save the Post Office receipt for proof of shipment. But I dont see how a receipt can be used because it does not say where or to whom it was shipped. Very confusing-PayPal damon, please respond.
posted on July 25, 2001 11:27:28 AM new
For seller protection, you have to be able to prove it was shipped to the confirmed address. Delivery confirmation only shows the zip code, not the address. So Paypal can (and has) told sellers that it was not good proof.
posted on July 25, 2001 12:26:25 PM new
I think "Post Office Receipt" must be referring to the DC receipt, not the cash receipt, that only has city/state/zip (I think).
I always fill in the DC form with the full name/address of the receiver of the package. DC online tracking doesn't provide that much detail, but if I scan/fax a copy of my DC with the confirmed address on there, they can match that up with the city/state/zip on the online tracking..
Now, if DC is NOT sufficient, they'd darn well better stop advertising it is... *grumble*
posted on July 25, 2001 12:36:50 PM new
From Damon:
Hi,
The information has to be tracked online. Receipts are not acceptable as proof if it can't be traced online<p>
My question: Can a regular receipt, not delivery confirmation but a regular receipt, be traced online. I would appreciate this answer damon. Thanks in advance.
posted on July 25, 2001 10:01:17 PM newMy question: Can a regular receipt, not delivery confirmation but a regular receipt, be traced online. I would appreciate this answer damon.
Julie920, this is the precise point where some of these discussions go off track. You are asking the wrong person. Ask the postoffice such questions. Ask the postoffice regarding when things are or are not trackable online, don't ask Damon. Damon doesn't run the postoffice.
posted on July 26, 2001 01:37:45 AM new
Roofguy, I have to disagree with you. I am asking Damon if PayPal accepts a post office receipt as trackable shipping for paypal seller protection. Its a simple question, only requiring a Yes or No answer. I appreciate you taking the time to answer Damon!
posted on July 26, 2001 02:02:22 AM newjulie920 I am asking Damon if PayPal accepts a post office receipt as trackable shipping for paypal seller protection. Its a simple question, only requiring a Yes or No answer.
Isn't this a simple answer?
DamonThe information has to be tracked online. Receipts are not acceptable as proof if it can't be traced online.
posted on July 26, 2001 07:29:14 AM new
Julie, the only thing that can be tracked online by consumers (and thus by paypal) is express mail, signature confirmation, and delivery confirmation.
Based on ppd's past responses here, just having a receipt that says you mailed it is insufficient. And yes, I know that seems inconsistent with a requirement of "proof of shipping".
I have been trying for quite some time to get a clear answer on what exact proof they require. I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, ppd, I simply want some clear answers on what is acceptable, and then I'll do that! I think that's all anyone wants here, is clear and simple requirements.
posted on July 26, 2001 07:30:45 AM newJulie920: You're splitting hairs. How about this: the only possible way your *receipt* from the post office could be used for an online trace would be if you had purchased DC in the first place, as the DC number would appear on the receipt if your post office has the newer equipment.
Otherwise, you could only use your receipt to start a manual search through your post office, not online.
