posted on September 7, 2001 07:42:10 AM new
Hello,
I am an online seller; I opened a Paypal account a few weeks ago as several customers mentioned that it may be easier to transact business if I were to start accepting Paypal too; BEFORE applying for an account, I CAREFULLY read through all of Paypal's documentation and help, and noted that I COULD operate a Paypal account and receive funds upto a maximum of $1,000 WITHOUT adding a bank account. All they needed was email confirmation, which I provided.My account is presently less than $900.
About a week ago, Paypal wrote me saying that my account was restricted due to 'unusual' activity and I MUST add a bank account, and then apply for said restriction to be lifted. I was dumbfounded.
I have done absolutely nothing illegal with this account; I just accept payments for sales and then send goods and with the paypal balance, I pay for my online purchases. Thinking perhaps one of the customers had complained, I contacted ALL the customers who have paid me and NONE of them had any complaints about my products. I have absolutely no idea why Paypal did this to me.
I guess the simple solution now would be to give my bank details and then get on with life.
Call me strange, but I will NOT give my bank account information to anyone.
What remedies do I have to resolve this situation? Has this happend to anyone else and if so, can you please tell me what happend. The way I see it, Paypal has absolutely no right whatsoever to ask this information from me. I don't mind if a customer complains or returns a product, if the transaction amount is deducted from my account. Nothing like that has happend; out of the blue, I get this notice and I am out of all my money.
What legal authority does Paypal have to do things like this? Who do they think they are. If you have any information that can help me, please responfd. I am also interested in working with anyone who is facing a similar problem with Paypal to make joint representations to regulatory bodies for a fair remedy.
posted on September 7, 2001 08:36:30 AM new
When you state up front that you have no intention of cooperating, there's not much anyone can do to help you.
If you're really interested, the PayPal Terms Of Use has clauses relevant to stories like yours.
Here's just one:
2. Miscellaneous Disclaimers.
(a) PayPal reserves the right to hold funds beyond the normal distribution periods for transactions it deems suspicious to ensure integrity of the funds.
posted on September 7, 2001 09:10:04 AM new
Hi RobertBurns,
Please feel free to send me the account information ([email protected]). I will have account management review the case.
The terms of use do dictate the reasons that an account can be restricted. It could be as simple as having incorrect contact information (telephone number on the account,etc).
posted on September 7, 2001 12:20:36 PM new
Robert, I hope you won't be scared away from using this forum due to Roofguy's response (his stance is that anyone who has a problem with PayPal is wrong).
You ask for suggestions and here are mine:
- See what Damon can do. He helps a lot of people cut through red tape.
- On the other hand, don't wait too long on PayPal. They often stall and people come back here a month later with their problem unresolved.
- If you can't make headway with Damon or PayPal in general, file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau at http://www.bbbsilicon.org/complaint.html
PayPal had a bad rating with them recently and they are very quick to respond through that agency.
I cannot speak to how or why your account got restricted, but I can say that PayPal will likely never tell you. So you won't find out if there was a valid reason or not. It's a way of doing business that no bank or any regulated financial company could get away with.
posted on September 7, 2001 01:09:47 PM new
Hi RobertBurns,
I don't recall getting an email from you about this. Please email me at [email protected], as I can advise as to what steps need to be taken (and why the account was restricted).
posted on September 7, 2001 05:20:37 PM new
RobertBurns
As for never giving anyone your bank account info, be aware that it is printed on the bottom of every check you have. Guess you may as well close the bank account as you will not be using it anymore....
posted on September 7, 2001 06:40:55 PM new
Hi RobertBurns,
I don't recall getting an email about this (this is an additional post). Can you please be sure to send me the information ([email protected])? If this is resoved, please let the other users know that it has been.
posted on September 8, 2001 04:25:21 PM new
Hi RobertBurns,
I am not in the office on weekends. When was the email sent to me? If late Friday, then I probably have not seen the email yet. I also could be forgetting that it has been received and forwarded to the proper department.
posted on September 8, 2001 07:20:43 PM new
Robert,
I would suggest rereading PayPal's privacy policy that is posted on their website. The information that PayPal needs to administer your account is your name, address, phone number and e-mail address. If you want to make payments through PayPal they ask you to provide either bank or credit card information. This can be found under part B. Information We Collect, Required information. It looks to me that PayPal is not in compliance with their privacy policy that is stated on their site. You do have some options when they are not following their posted privacy policy.
posted on September 10, 2001 01:51:51 PM newIt looks to me that PayPal is not in compliance with their privacy policy that is stated on their site.
[sarcasm]Of course PayPal is in 100% compliance with their TOU. This must be a simple case of you misinterpreting something along the way. What it is that you are misinterpreting, and the correct interpretation will never be divulged. In short, follow these guidelines:
#1 PayPal is never wrong.
#2 If you feel PayPal is wrong, see #1.[/sarcasm]
posted on September 10, 2001 03:57:30 PM new
Hi purplehaze1967,
I totally agree with you on the following two points that you made:
#1 PayPal is never wrong.
#2 If you feel PayPal is wrong, see #1.
In order to provide other individuals who are having difficulties with PayPal some hope, there are things that they can do. The reason that I bring up PayPals privacy policy is because it is what governs an invividauls PayPal account. It is not their TOU. Their privacy policy describes the information that PayPal collects and how that information is used. This policy applies to all services that are on the PayPal web site. In the case above, if the individual looks under part B. Information we collect (PayPal's privacy policy) This is what it states
"Required Information"
"To open a PayPal account, you must provide your name, address, phone number, and e-mail address. In order to make payments through PayPal, you must provide credit card, debit card or bank account information (bank account information is required to make payment totaling more than $1,000.00)." If PayPal changes this policy, PayPal users must be informed of the change.
I would advise everyone who is having problems with any of PayPal's services to make a copy of the privacy policy that is posted on their web site and read it a couple of times. You get a real good idea what PayPal can and can not do to their customers.
Individuals who find that PayPal is not in compliance with their stated policy that is posted on their web site can contact
Truste at http://www.truste.org/users/users_watchdog.html
I am currently researching the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which has to do with privacy violations. I am searching for any violations that might have occurred.
posted on September 11, 2001 06:51:07 PM new
Now just hold on here. This can not be happening! PayPal never locks a whole account. Both PayPal reps have said that very clear. How could Damon and Roofguy be wrong.
posted on September 11, 2001 08:08:45 PM new
robert,
Take a real good look at PayPal's privacy policy. Read it a couple of times to get a good understanding. PayPal's TOU are governed by PayPal's Privacy Policy, not the other way around. This is taken from their privacy policy "The privacy policy below governs your PayPal account and any information you provide on this site." I feel there are serious issues of non compliance with their privacy policy and other consumer protection issues.
Hey Jim,
If your counting--I'm another indivual who has had their PayPal account restricted and then locked.
posted on September 18, 2001 07:38:01 PM new
Real SIMPLE SOLUTION: If they require BANK ACCOUNT info and you don't want to give out this secret info (which IS printed on the bottom of EVERY check) then do the following:
1) Withdraw your money /then/
2) Close your account /then/
3) NEVER use PP again!
How can this be complicated? PP makes rules to benefit PP and no-one else! Of course! If ya like the rules or any changes they make to their rules, then ya STAY WITH THEM! If ya don't, then ya STAY AWAY FROM THEM!
The same with feeBay and BOOhoo and AW, etc! I don't think Musk is going to quiver in his Gucci's because ya have a hang-up about giving out those not-so-private bank account numeros!
posted on September 21, 2001 05:30:00 AM new
One part of this thread:
I cannot understand how more money than is subject to investigation can be 'frozen'? I just do not see the realtionship nor the reasonable reason for a certain transaction for $XX freezing $XXXX (or whatever $)
It appears to be a situation where the 'marble-holder' is taking advantage of advantage of first access to all of marbles.
posted on September 21, 2001 07:35:21 AM newIt appears to be a situation where the 'marble-holder' is taking advantage of advantage of first access to all of marbles.
This story does not involve a disputed transaction. It involves a pattern of activity which attracted attention and a requirement for more extensive documentation..a requirement which was initially met by a lack of cooperation by the customer. It doesn't really take much analysis to see where that response by the customer is unlikely to resolve the issue any time soon.
posted on September 21, 2001 10:29:44 AM new
RE:"Real SIMPLE SOLUTION: If they require BANK ACCOUNT info and you don't want to give out this secret info (which IS printed on the bottom of EVERY check) then do the following:"
1) Withdraw your money /then/
2) Close your account /then/
3) NEVER use PP again!
Although this looks like a simple solution,
1) Withdraw your money /then/
2) Close your account /then/
It can not be done when PayPal has this individual's account restricted. You can neither withdraw money or close an account. My guess would be that this individual would love to do the above "Real SIMPLE SOLUTION" if only they could.
posted on September 21, 2001 05:35:30 PM new
Get REAL!!
If you guys are SERIOUS or Want to Be Serious about being PROFESSIONAL and doing business you should have no problem with Paypals conditions!
I suggest that you TRY and GET a CREDIT CARD/MERCHANT account and Tell them you DON'T want to provide them ANY information (Banking or otherwise) and see how far that gets you.
........GREAT JOB GREAT SERVICE PAYPAL KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
posted on September 22, 2001 05:01:09 AM new
Damon,
What is the situation now? I have been emailing you for the last 10 days without even the courtesy of a reply. If you feel I have used someone else's credit card to get funds into my account, just go talk to ALL the people who have sent money to me, they will confirm these are payments for purchases they have made from me. And once you do that, KINDLY RELEASE MY MONEY. You cannot just sit on my money just because I have not followed your TOU to the letter; you can close my account, fine, but you cannot hold my money indefinitely, that is illegal and I will not stand for it. Please reply.
posted on September 24, 2001 07:22:20 AM new
Robert Burns,
paypaldamon wrote the statement below on the following thread "Is PayPal comtemplating bankruptcy?"
He states, "PayPal is strengthening its User Agreement to clarify that, if you carry a
balance in your PayPal account, you continue to be the owner of those funds,
and PayPal will act as your agent to move those funds according to your
instructions."
Since you are the owner of the funds, PayPal will now act to move those funds accourding to your instructions. Seems real clear, if you request your funds they will act accourding to your instructions.
posted on September 25, 2001 11:34:25 PM new
Hi All,
Although Damon from Paypal initially sent 3 or more messages to me via the board and via email saying that he had not heard from me only hours after I had placed the complaint, I have not since heard from him for the LAST 3 WEEKS since after I replied to them; I have been emailing Damon on a regular basis, the last was 2 days ago.
Meanwhile, Paypal have been contacting my customers and restricted the account of one (a verified memebr), and demanded that he send them, in addition to all his personal information like bank statements, drivers license copies, credit card statements, utility bills etc., copies of all emails between ME and HIM and any other information that he can provide on me, or else Paypal had said they would not release HIS funds.
Is this legal for Paypal to blackmail this guy to give information on me ike this?
I still don't know what is going to happen to my money though. I have been emailing Paypal almost daily, so far, Paypal and Damon have been completely silent.
posted on September 26, 2001 05:52:43 AM new
RobertBurns,
PayPal is in violation of their posted privacy policy. Contact Truste at http://www.truste.org/users/users_watchdog.html
File a complaint with this company. PayPal displays the Truste logo and is not in compliance with their stated policy.
Also file a complaint with the BBB at
http://www.bbbsilicon.org/complaint.html
I'm not sure what state you are from, but a complaint to the Attorney Generals office also might be effective.
The above statement from paypaldamon concerning "you continue to be the owner of those funds, and PayPal will act as your agent to move those funds according to your
instructions." I take it PayPal continues to not recognize you as the owner of your funds?
posted on September 26, 2001 06:33:50 AM new
Not that he needs any defense, but it is well documented on this very board that Damon was out of the office for over a week due to the events in NY, DC and PA.
posted on September 26, 2001 07:15:52 AM new
RobertBurns,
If you would like, I will tell your story to a representive from the Attorney General's office. A police detctive and myself have a meeting with them this afternoon. If the Attorney General's office finds the that dollars involved is large enough, then they will become involved. Anyone else out there?
posted on September 26, 2001 11:24:40 PM new
Hello everyone,
Roofguy, I don't even know whether I am being uncooperative; I simply have not heard from Paypal.
Roofguy, are you handling my account now with Paypal instead of Damon? I take it you are with Paypal, I am not sure who is who as I have not followed this board before I came accross this problem.
bburd51: I will take your advice and I will request Paypal that my funds be sent to me as per my instructions and close my Paypal account, as I understand that since I carry a balance in my PayPal account, I continue to be the owner of those funds,
PayPal WILL act as my agent to move those funds according to my
instructions.
bburd51 I need your's and others' advice; how I do make sure that when I make this request to Paypal, they don't just ignore it and not even respond or acknowledge that I made the request. So far this is what they have been doing? Is there some authority that can enforce Paypal to release my funds should they fail to send me my money.
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the feedback I have got.
posted on September 27, 2001 06:59:34 AM new
If you fear being ignored, I would send a "Certified Letter" containing your instructions, so you will have "proof" they got it.
If they do not do as you ask, you will have to seek legal counsel. There is another thread here in this forum, where several claim to already be in that process.
posted on September 27, 2001 07:24:42 AM new
RobertBurns,
I was being a little facetious when I stated, "since you are the owner of the funds, PayPal will now act to move those funds according to your instructions. Seems real clear, if you request your funds they will act according to your instructions."
I really do not feel that PayPal will recognize you as the owner of your funds? Somehow, PayPal feels those are their funds until you jump through all of their hoops, even though PayPal is in violation of their privacy policy. From the looks of it, those hoops can last months. File a complaint with the BBB and TRUSTe.
paypaldamon statement below can be found on the following thread "Is PayPal comtemplating bankruptcy?"
He states, "PayPal is strengthening its User Agreement to clarify that, if you carry a
balance in your PayPal account, you continue to be the owner of those funds,
and PayPal will act as your agent to move those funds according to your
instructions."
