grumpyebayer
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posted on September 8, 2001 05:27:27 PM new
I used to have a lot of activity with paypal. In the past months I have slacked off somewhat.
On may 22nd I reported the card stolen. A website that I had used the card at had been breached and someone stole my information an attempted to make a $500 charge at an online casino. Luckily the charge was denied.
I got all of the money out of my account and my paypal balance was $0.
I log in one day and notice that I had a negative balane. I checked my history. On JUly 23rd Paypal allowed AOL to charge me $67.80. Thereby giving me a negative balance of $67.80.
I wrote and called paypal, the reps claimed they would investigate. I have yet to hear back from them about that charge. On August 21st they allowed a charge to got through from AOL for $23.90. Now may account is even more in the hole.
Three things really bother me.
1) PayPal allowed my card to be charged when there was no balance on it.
2) The number that AOL is using is that of the stolen card. I do not use AOL as my internet provider. I use MSN unless I am at the office.
3) PayPal has not taken the charges off my card or responded to any of my emails.
I would appreciate some help with this situation.
Thanks
edited: because my card was number was stolen in May not march, as I indicated in my venting frenzy.
[ edited by grumpyebayer on Sep 9, 2001 10:08 AM ]
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bburd51
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posted on September 9, 2001 07:08:55 AM new
grumpyebayer,
Have you talked with AOL about the unauthorized charges that are on your debit card? Since PayPal is not responding to your concerns, I would contact AOL and inform them that all of transactions were not authorized. Request that they be reversed and credited back to your account. Make sure that you have a cancellation number for your AOL account to prevent more charges. Although they might not do anything about the charges in March you should get the August 23rd charges reversed. There is the chance that they will reverse all of the charges since the card was reported stolen.
Did PayPal send you email when your PayPal account was debited? I is my understanding that it is their policy to notify you when there are charges to your PayPal account.
Your best bet is to deal with a company that responds to your concerns in a timely manner. A company (PayPal)that takes more that a couple of days to respond to someone that has unauthorized charges on their account has a real serious problem. Good Luck
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uaru
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posted on September 9, 2001 08:46:44 AM new
Call them.
Here's the number of their debit card customer support. (402) 935-2017
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 9, 2001 10:12:00 AM new
Hi,
I called AOL after the initial charge, there response was we will look into it. They then charged me again in August.
I called the toll free paypal debit card number. They said that they would investigate and call or email me in a few days. That was months ago.
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bburd51
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posted on September 9, 2001 11:23:02 AM new
grumpyebayer,
Call AOL again and explain that the transactions that they did was on a stolen card. Make sure that you have a cancellation number for AOL services. Talk to a supervisor and keep working up the chain of command.
Was this a PayPal debit card or a debit card with your bank?
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 9, 2001 12:42:03 PM new
It was a Paypal debit card.
I really liked the card, now I am angry. I have never heard of a debit card allowing a transaction to go through when there is no money in the account.
I will try AOL again tomorrow.
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loggia
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posted on September 9, 2001 04:58:01 PM new
From the FTC, Credit and ATM Cards: What To Do If They're Lost or Stolen
Once you've reported the loss of your ATM card, you cannot be held liable for additional amounts, even if more unauthorized transactions are made.
From The Federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act
After notification about an error on your statement, the institution has 10 business days to investigate. The financial institution must tell you the results of its investigation within three business days after completing it and must correct an error within one business day after determining that the error has occurred. If the institution needs more time, it may take up to 45 days to complete the investigation — but only if the money in dispute is returned to your account and you are notified promptly of the credit. At the end of the investigation, if no error has been found, the institution may take the money back if it sends you a written explanation.
[ edited by loggia on Sep 9, 2001 05:00 PM ]
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loggia
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posted on September 9, 2001 05:14:22 PM new
Call PayPal and explain the Electronic Fund Transfer Act as outlined above and in the links.
Based on what you write, they have already failed in their obligation to at least temporarily return the funds to your account.
At this point, at the 45-day mark, they must return the money to your account immediately unless they argue you did not inform them in May or they have an investigation result which merits not returning the funds.
There is absolutely no other response allowed under the law at this point, based on what you write.
I would contact MasterCard and complain. I am horrified at your story. This is one area in which PayPal is regulated. There are rigid conditions under the EFTA which must be followed.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 9, 2001 05:28:32 PM new
Hi grumpyebayer,
Can you please send the applicable information to me ([email protected])? This information needs to be forwarded to our ops team, as well as our fraud team. I believe that you should have received an affidavit as well (to file the claim,etc).
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bburd51
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posted on September 9, 2001 07:50:24 PM new
grumpyebayer,
Since your dealing with PayPal, it might be best after sending your email, to also send the information certified letter, return receipt requested.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 9, 2001 09:28:43 PM new
Hi Damon,
I have sent you the information you requested.
Someone in fraud or security had to be aware of what happened. I was supposed to be contacted by someone in the Ohmaha office. It never happened. I was also issued a new card.
Thank You
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 10, 2001 12:27:11 AM new
Hi grumpyebayer,
Thank you for sending me the information. I will tackle this first thing in the morning (when I am in the office).
Thank you for your patience.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 10, 2001 06:04:35 AM new
Thank You Damon. I look forward to a response.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 10, 2001 02:05:13 PM new
Hello Damon,
Thank You very much for your help. I did get a response today via email.
The only problem that I still have is that no one seems willing to answer why my card was debited when it had a $0 balance.
I spoke to two banks that I have visa debit cards through and they had never heard of this being allowed. If a debit card has no money on it then the charges are rejected. Paypal allowed the charges and put my account in the negative.
Also the fact that the charges were rejected 9 times and then allowed to go through is odd also.
I would really appreciate an answer as to why this was allowed.
Thank You
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LaneFamily
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posted on September 11, 2001 06:55:25 PM new
I have never used a paypal card but does it carry the mastercard or visa logo?
Jim
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 12, 2001 10:39:46 PM new
It has a mastercard logo.
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LaneFamily
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posted on September 12, 2001 10:47:42 PM new
I can not speak for PP but I have a master debit card. It has a line of credit tied to it of $1,000.00.
You see charges do not look at your checking/PP account the are authorized againsed the line of credit. A few days later the charge comes through the ACH system and is posted againsed your account.
This can account for your account going in the red.
Jim
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 13, 2001 04:14:12 AM new
PayPal debit cards do not have a line of credit. They are tied directly to your paypal balance. If you have no money in your paypal account then you have no credit available.
I too have debit cards that come with a credit balance above and beyond my checking account balance. Paypal does not offer that. The charges should not have gone through. Also they rejected the charges sevral times, then let it go through. Then Aol submitted another charge, which they againg denied several times, before allowing it to go through.
The following is taken from Paypal's terms of use:
"Using your card to pay for purchases. You may use your Card to purchase goods and services from merchants that accept MasterCard, up to the available balance in your PayPal Account, and subject to the transaction limits specified in Section 5 below. Purchases made with your Card will be charged against your PayPal Account balance"
According to the above statement the charges should not have been allowed since my balance was $0. My account should have had the charges reversed immediately.
A paypal employee admitted that to me when I originally called. Since then they seem reluctant to explain why this occured not once, but twice.
I have asked Damon and every paypal employee that I have had contact with and no one has answered me.
According to the info Loggia posted, Paypal should have returned the money to my account. They have not done that and it has been more than 45 days, since the 1st charge and more than 10 since the 2nd charge.
edited bekause it is eraly and i kant spell.
[ edited by grumpyebayer on Sep 13, 2001 04:16 AM ]
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loggia
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posted on September 14, 2001 11:50:56 PM new
According to the info Loggia posted, Paypal should have returned the money to my account. They have not done that and it has been more than 45 days, since the 1st charge and more than 10 since the 2nd charge.
I don't understand - they replied but didn't fix the problem?
If that's the case, then they are in serious violation of the EFTA, based on what you write. You need to contact MasterCard immediately.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 15, 2001 06:16:51 PM new
I have contacted mastercard. I am sick of the run around.
This is the only card that I have ever used that did not remedy a problem quickly, especially when stolen numbers were involved.
The only thing I have heard from them is that they are sending me a new card.
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bburd51
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posted on September 22, 2001 08:20:52 AM new
grumpyebayer,
Can you give an update. Did PayPal help you resolve the problem?
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incannes
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posted on September 24, 2001 08:36:32 AM new
with regard to grumpyebayer post
"This is the only card that I have ever used that did not remedy a problem quickly, especially when stolen numbers were involved. "
Where does one find such helpful customer service at CC companies? I have had about a 10% success rate with CC companies fixing problems on the first inquiry.
I have had no problems with PayPal cards yet, but if they can do better than 10%, I will be impressed.
IC
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grumpyebayer
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posted on September 27, 2001 12:40:17 AM new
Hello,
No resoultion yet. I got a form over a week ago that I sent in and returned the same day.
My replacement card arrived before the fraud form.
Where does one find such helpful customer service at CC companies? I have had about a 10% success rate with CC companies fixing problems on the first inquiry.
Next Card Visa Platinum: Excellent with stolen cards. Called to ask me one morning if I had made $500 in charges at late night bar. No I had not...that time.
First USA Platinum: Great in everyway.
Citibank Platinum: they stink in every way except dealing with stolen cards
MBNA Platinum: the best of all cards I have ever dealt with
Fleet Gold: Good with stolen cards and customer service.
Capital One Platinum: No problems.
AT&T Universal Platinum: barely above paypal in customer service. Quick on the ball with unauthorized charges though.
Discover: Really Good.
Amex: Good with stolen cards. Okay customer service.
Every card above took care of unauthorized charges on the first bat. MBNA was incredible when handling my stolen business card..
I don't know what cards, you are using maybe you should change companies.
[ edited by grumpyebayer on Sep 27, 2001 12:40 AM ]
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loggia
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posted on September 27, 2001 03:24:41 PM new
What did MasterCard say?
Was the form to PayPal? If it was, did you send the form with some kind of delivery verification? Otherwise, you're likely to be told they never received it.
Based on what you wrote, PayPal is violating the law. You need to stop waiting for PayPal to fix the problem and vigorously pusue other avenues - the Better Business Bureau, MasterCard, PayPal's insurer, the FTC...
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bburd51
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posted on September 28, 2001 12:32:48 PM new
grumpyebayer,
Can you give an update. Did PayPal help you resolve the problem?
loggia,
As far as delivery verification, paypaldamon confirmed that he received grumpyebayer's information on September 10th. Since he is a representive of PayPal, I would hope that would be adequate verification. For all others having concerns, definitely get delivery verification.
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grumpyebayer
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posted on October 2, 2001 06:53:57 AM new
The charges still have not been removed and no one from paypal will answer why an account with a $0 balance was allowed charges against it.
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loggia
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posted on October 2, 2001 11:20:10 AM new
Damon, are you aware if what Grumpy says is accurate that PayPal is violating the EFTA? That even an answer that it is being investigated is no longer legal after this many days?
Even your IPO information states "we have assumed that our product is subject to the Electronic Fund Transfer Act."
(A strange way to put it, since PayPal has a MasterCard debit product and MasterCard would require your compliance with it, irregardless of any dubious question of whether PayPal is subject to it - as course PayPal is).
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bburd51
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posted on October 3, 2001 10:25:03 AM new
grumpyebayer,
Since you have not gotten any help from customer service at PayPal, you might contact the California Dept.of Financial Institutions which will investigate unlicensed entities. The following site is to their consuner services. There is a toll free number. I think they would be interested in this problem.
http://www.sbd.ca.gov/consumer/illigit.html
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loggia
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posted on October 3, 2001 06:12:10 PM new
Grumpy, what did MasterCard say?
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grumpyebayer
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posted on October 4, 2001 07:53:39 AM new
bburd51: Thanks for the link.
Loggia and everyone else you guys have been very helpful.
Mastercard was very interested. The rep that I spoke to said that they had gotten similar complaints, but said that she was not allowed to into details. She took a good bit info from me.
As of today, the charges have not been reversed.
I am sure that everyone has noticed that no one from PayPal wants to answer the burning question: Why was an account with a $0 balance was allowed charges against it?
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