posted on March 10, 2002 03:31:47 PM new
I sold an IMac via yahoo auction towards the end of November. The winning bidder paid for the product via paypal and we shipped the item to him. We got delivery confirmation, signature, shipped to his confirmed address, etc. The buyer even posted positive feedback on yahoo auction for us and stated he was happy with the item. About a month later he returned the IMac to us because he was having trouble getting it to power up. We offered to take a look at and repair it if necessary and then ship the IMac back to him. The IMac arrived to us completely destroyed by UPS. There was nothing we could do to repair it since the case had been smashed along with many internal components. We suggested that the buyer who shipped the IMac back to us initiate a claim with UPS since it was obviously damaged during shipping. Instead the buyer told us that he had disputed the charge with his credit card company and that we should just keep the IMac because he didn't want it anymore. We then filed a claim for the shipping damage with UPS. I didn't think we would win the claim because it was very obvious that the IMac had not been packaged properly. There weren't even enough packing peanuts to fill the box. UPS determined that the item was not packaged according to their standards so they would not insure it. We notified paypal before the disputed charge hit our account. We gave paypal ahead of time all the info showing that we had followed ALL of the terms of the seller protection policy. We also explained the circumstances of the transaction to them and just got a generic email response. On Feb 1st paypal debited our account $648. They sent us a link to fill out an online form, which I promptly did. Three weeks went by and I heard nothing. I sent paypal an email asking them why they debited my account when I had followed all of their terms. No response. I called paypal and talked to a representative who assured me that the matter would be resolved within a month. He even double checked the form I submitted and told me that I would be covered under the seller protection policy since I provided all the necessary info but that it would take a few more days for them to finish their "investigation". On March the 8th I got an email from paypal saying that the reversal would stand because the product was found to be defective and that the seller protection policy only covers sellers from fraud not from defective merchandise?? They said this was in agreement with section IV paragraph 3 of their terms of service. I looked through that section, but it did not deal with the seller protection policy nor chargebacks. They also debited my paypal account an additional $10 for processing this claim. I don't understand how on earth they determined the item to be defective. They never asked for any additional info from me besides the generic stuff that I filled out on the online form. Plus if they had checked the UPS information they would have seen that the seller sent the IMac back to me over a month after he purchased it and that it had been damaged in shipping due to improper packaging. This can easily be found online through the UPS tracking info we sent them. I am very unhappy with paypal and will not recommend them to anyone. Their seller protection policy seems to be an absolute joke. Luckily for me I had $0 in my account when the reversal hit. I have since closed my credit card accounts that were associated with paypal just to be safe. First thing Monday morning I will close the bank account that is linked to paypal to be double safe. I wonder if there is anyone who has actually been protected from a chargeback by their seller protection policy?? Any advice on this issue would be appreciated.
posted on March 10, 2002 05:09:40 PM new
Well, since the laptop wasn't defective when you sent it, just don't pay PayPal. If PayPal already initiated a debit to your bank account, file an affadavit reversing the charge. I'm not saying ignore the issue, by all means communicate with PayPal (if you can) and try to get it resolved on their end. Maybe Damon can help, since this is a clear case of following the seller protection policy but not being protected. But if they absolutely won't budge, all I can say is it is a good thing you left your account at $0.
posted on March 10, 2002 11:08:30 PM new
There are too many people out there leaving a balance in their PayPal accounts. It is so extremeley dangerous to keep any money in your account.
posted on March 11, 2002 03:19:31 PM new
Hi andrew123s,
This actually sounds like a merchandise quality chargeback, which is not covered under the Seller Protection Policy.
In addition, the seller did receive the merchandise back. The buyer (apparently) did not package the item properly. This issue about the merchandise being damaged is now between the buyer and seller.
posted on March 11, 2002 03:36:28 PM new
Damon:
The buyer returned the merchandise to me over 30 days after buying it. He returned it so I could repair it for him (if it needed to be repaired) and then ship it back to him. If paypal had taken the time to contact me on this issue they could have fought this chargeback. I had plenty of evidence that I was more than willing to supply them with. Pictures of the damage, the report from UPS, the feedback stating he was happy with his merchandise, etc. Instead all the info they asked for was in the generic form that I filled out. They made their ruling before they even discussed it with me.
Paypal should just tell their users the truth... we provide very little if any protection for sellers. Stop false advertising! Your seller protection policy is CRAP! It is too bad I wasted my money on delivery confirmations and signature confirmations and shipping insurance.... since none of this acutally matters to paypal!
I think I am going to dispute every credit card purchase that I have ever made through paypal because I was unhappy with the "quality of the merchandise". Since paypal doesn't take the time to fight for their sellers I should make out with several hundred dollars in free merchandise!! WOOHOO!!
posted on March 12, 2002 03:34:15 AM new
yip with the policy paypal has you can buy a laptop dispute it and get it for free only one who gets hurt is the SELLER. why do you think under no circumstances would i accept paypal its russian roulette
posted on March 12, 2002 07:44:23 AM new
I have read through the seller protection policy numerous times since paypals ruling of defective merchandise. Nowhere in their policy do I see that it limits the protection to use of fraudulant credit cards.... Just seems like they are participating in false advertising. They send out tons of promotional emails "Protect yourself from costly chargebacks" "Billpoint doesn't protect your from chargebacks but paypal does". That is certainly the biggest load crap.
Since I am a Penn State student we are eligible to receive free legal advice from this attorney on campus. I am going to bring in Paypals terms of service, their promotional emails, their so called seller protection policy and see what the lawyer on campus thinks.
posted on March 12, 2002 10:44:55 AM new
I do not agree with PayPal's seller protection policy. Nevertheless, it does not pertain to quality of goods issues:
Consumer protection programs, section 3i:
PayPal agrees to indemnify sellers of physical goods from reversal liability resulting from a buyer's unauthorized use of a credit card and/or false claims of non-shipment of goods.
Unfortunately, it does not state quality of goods issues. Now PayPal could easily defend users against these chargebacks, they just chose not to. There have been cases where there is ironclad proof that the buyer was satisfied and charged it back just to get it for free (for example, a user sold a domain to anohter user. That other user was in the WHOIS database of the domain registar, but PayPal still wouldn't believe the seller). However, in many of these cases the seller had $0 in their account, so PayPal could do nothing, as in this case. The moral of these stories? NEVER EVER keep anything in your PayPal account. As soon as you get money withdraw it to your bank account before shipping.
posted on March 12, 2002 11:35:06 AM new
Maybe I missed something... why wouldn't you accept online CC's? As a buyer, I won't do business on the net unless it is with a credit card. There's no protection otherwise. What does a seller use and protect themselves?
posted on March 12, 2002 08:11:34 PM new
Trai, you make good points. But in this or any other situation like this, it wouldn't matter. It doesn't matter if the seller refused delivery. It doesn't matter if the seller didn't inspect the goods. It doesn't even matter if the buyer never sent it back. He automatically wins, because he filed a quality of goods chargeback. PayPal doesn't fight for you.
posted on March 13, 2002 10:49:16 AM new
andrew123s
This is why we go to plan B, Postal money order, bidpay etc.
I will only accept online payments for xxx number of dollars, thats it!
"... why wouldn't you accept online CC's? As a buyer, I won't do business on the net unless it is with a credit card. There's no protection otherwise."
Protection should be for both parties, not just one!
I do accept cc online, but there is a limit that I use.
Why? Read what kak268 first post says, thats one good reason!
