posted on September 2, 2002 05:58:58 AM new
I am a long time online auction seller. I have had no problems with PayPal since I started using them in 1999, other than fees being a little high recently.
Whenever a person bashes a company like this I am skeptical. I know what it's like to deal with a few bad eggs in business, so I am willing to give the benifit of the doubt to PayPal. However the sheer number of unresolved complaints I have seen since starting to read this and other msg boards is staggering. There is no way that ALL these people are just 'difficult customers'. Hundreds of thousands of dollars seems to have been locked up by PayPal and they put up a smoke screen of poor customer communications.
As a person who has never ever ever had a complaint filed, or chargeback initiated in my dealings with PayPal, I honestly feel it is only a matter of time before they attempt to steal my money as well.
For this reason, I will be phasing out PayPal from my online auction business. I plan to start my own merchant account to take credit cards from online customers. At least my merchant account will be FDIC insured, and I can always switch banks if I have problems.
PayPal: I hope your listening. This is the result of your customer service policies. You will not have the chance to steal MY money, I know enough to head the warning signs. In fairness, I will be watching auction related msg boards to see if there is a change in PayPal's tactics.
It's almost sad. Paypal was such a convenient service. I wish they would dedicate themselves to thier customers instead of the floating balance. I hope other sellers will also head the warning signs before it is too late. I have seen companys bigger than PayPal topple over before. There are ALWAYS warning signs. Few choose to heed them.
posted on September 2, 2002 08:44:22 AM newAt least my merchant account will be FDIC insured, and I can always switch banks if I have problems.
Don't count on it. You can switch banks with PayPal also.
I know what it's like to deal with a few bad eggs in business, so I am willing to give the benifit of the doubt to PayPal. However the sheer number of unresolved complaints I have seen since starting to read this and other msg boards is staggering. There is no way that ALL these people are just 'difficult customers'.
You should be careful of what you read on the net. There are only about 3 bashers here and if you get to the bottom of thier story, they did not comply with the terms of use and will still argue they did not apply to them. One of the site even has posts from imposters to try and bolster their claims.
One hate site that is semi moderated has not had additional claims posted since MARCH! A recent analysis of that hate sites prove the problems were not PayPals. The analysis (not done by me) of the complaints at one of the anomoyous PayPal hate sites yield the following results, 35 complaints, 9 lacked enough info to determine the problem, 5 were most probably the victim of one of the scam sites or emails over which PayPal has no control, 8 plainly did not comply with the terms of use, and 13 demonstrated they did not understand and comply with the terms of use. NONE demonstrated an error by PayPal.
posted on September 2, 2002 09:02:17 AM new
There are class-actions against Paypal because of its customer service. The lawyers have been deluged with similar stories. Coonr you... oh never mind. My story was my account was fraudulently accessed. I did not violate any Paypal rules. I was put through a nightmare to fix everything. Paypal only helped after I complained to their insurer. I found other people who had been through the same scenario as I was in and we all had very bad customer service.
posted on September 2, 2002 10:53:04 AM new
By the way you said you complained to the insurer. If you noticed the insurer dumped PAYPONZI. The so-called insurance policy was a scam, it did not insure the customer it insured PAYPONZI. Just more PAYPONZI LIES
posted on September 2, 2002 12:19:05 PM new
Coonr, there was a time that I would have agreed with you. Many of the complaints against paypal are obvoisly due to peoples stupidity in not following the Terms of Service. However, why should an online seller be put to ruin because of a mistake? It's how PayPal handles these situations that truely scares me. I assume you were refering to the 'Wall of Shame' at www.paypalwarning.com or perhaps www.paypalsucks.com. Why would it take PayPal months to investigate a suspicious account? They seem to have very little regard that this money actually belongs to and was earned by human beings. It is thier livelyhood. It is what puts food in the mouth's of thier children. It is what put's gas in thier cars and pays the rent. It is more than case number 9875869581.
Paypal claims a fraud low fraud rate of .42% of all transactions (figures from 2001). YIKES!! This means that by the time I hit 216 paypal sales my account will be frozen at least once! I am well past that 216 figure, so I supose I am just lucky.
To assume that all these angry paypal customers are the cause of their own pain is utter blindness to me. If you want the opinion of respected profesionals in the banking regulation industry, check the article at:
http://dir.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/02/23/pay_pal/index.html
posted on September 2, 2002 02:03:54 PM new
Coonr, I don't say what I can't prove, but you wouldn't believe it if the rev. Al told you. You really have to lossen the marine belt buckle on your PAYPONZI SUPERMAN SUIT up. Let me see if I can find that pic.
posted on September 2, 2002 04:12:48 PM new
Eagle,
I signed up with PAYPAL when it was x.com. We never had any problems, this was the first time. They froze our funds and every person we talked to gave us a different answer. We followed all the guidlines. When we asked them for spacifics they hung up on us. That is how I came to find this post. After reading the disrespectful way the only people defending PAYPAL responded to customers and the unbelievable amount of complaints I decided to become vocal (COONR, STOPWHINING). Go through a few of these post and ask yourself if this is the kind of people you want in control of your funds. These guys have been posting for years and have always done everything they can to discredit the customer. Why unless they have something to hide.
We have started asking our customers to use BIDPAY. They charge the customer, but we give them a discount of what PAYPAL would have charge us to accept payment through them. This is working very well for us. By the way, shortly after I became publicly vocal they returned our funds. Before that they told us they always lose on chargebacks and we would more then likely lose our money even though we followed all the guidlines.
[ edited by ljart53 on Sep 2, 2002 04:46 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2002 04:38:32 PM new
coonr: "The only reason would be the user refusing to cooperate, and we have seen plenty of that here."
So what your telling me is, all those people with varying amounts of money tied up in paypal ranging from tens to tens of thousands of dollars simply told paypal, 'I refuse to work with you, keep my money'?
This REALLY does not make sense to me. Of course there is no way for me to ever know for sure. I wasn't listening in on the phone when these people claimed to be hung up on. I never saw exactly what they typed in to get thier account restricted. But, honestly, do you truly believe all those people would flat out refuse to cooperate with PayPal even though it meant giving up hundreds of dollars?!?
posted on September 2, 2002 05:14:31 PM new
I never said it would make sense.... but ask a few questions to the complainers here and see for your self.
Have you called PayPal yourself? Hung up on? Wonder why (or why not)?
posted on September 2, 2002 05:50:31 PM new
I have seen a countless number of cases where the user faxes the information in, and PayPal denies receiving it. Fax after fax after fax, denial after denial after denial (to the user). I even know of a person who is having that very problem and I was trying to give him suggestions to help get it resolved, but nothing can be done until PayPal admits receiving the information, which has been faxed 3 times.
posted on September 2, 2002 05:58:29 PM new
Seems like a company that spends nearly a half a million dollars trying to get less than $20,000 out of me could afford a fax machine that worked. By the way, I just happen to have a good one for sale. SORRY NO PAYPONZI PLEASE
posted on September 2, 2002 07:40:48 PM new
PayPal also tried the "I didn't get your fax" on us also. It was only when I became vocal did our money get returned. Damon of PayPal found my user information through an Ebay post and got our money returned. I did not want him to solve our problem outside PAYPAL on Auction Watch. I wanted to know they would stand behind their policies and I as a customer could could resolve any complaints with them.
posted on September 3, 2002 02:52:08 AM new
Sorry about the double post, the problem with PayPal is that from the beginning of a problem, the support on the intial phone is that you get a person that can not help you. An account gets restricted, the person calls and is told to fax information in. Now if it is a new account that should be no problem, but there are accounts that have restricted that were open for a long period of time that have to go through the same process. You can not talk to the department that is doing the review so after you get off the phone, you feel like you wasted your time.
Some people here have valid points, my question is that with all the complaints and the class action law suits, it can not be that everyone else is to blame besides paypal. PayPal deserves some of the blame as well. If my account is restricted, I should have the right to talk to the person doing the review, and not wait for them to get back on their own time.
[ edited by thchaser200 on Sep 3, 2002 02:59 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2002 05:59:38 AM newSome people here have valid points, my question is that with all the complaints and the class action law suits, it can not be that everyone else is to blame besides paypal.
Lets see there are about 3 or 4 bashers here depending on the day, and the lawsuits, cover 4 people, that makes 7 at the most, oput of 17,000,000+. Wonder how big this problem really is?
posted on September 3, 2002 10:40:43 AM newLets see there are about 3 or 4 bashers here depending on the day, and the lawsuits, cover 4 people, that makes 7 at the most, oput of 17,000,000+. Wonder how big this problem really is?
Where'd you learn to do math? In case you aren't aware, "Class Action" lawsuits cover far more than 4 people. BTW - You're (more than just a little) confused. There are 3 of you here that defend PayPal. There is a far greater number complaining.
In addition to the fact that you've failed to miss the OP's point. They said This is the result of your customer service policies..
Re: Your Question Have you called PayPal yourself? Hung up on? Wonder why (or why not)?
The OP also said: I have had no problems with PayPal since I started using them in 1999...
It's the people that want specific answers from PayPal about a PayPal problem that are hung up on.
And Re: Why would it take PayPal months to investigate a suspicious account?
And your response: The only reason would be the user refusing to cooperate, and we have seen plenty of that here.
Are you sure that's the only reason? Because we've all seen Damon give a number of different reasons (excuses)- however, I don't recall seeing that one.
But, once again, I'm sure PayPal's proud (or is that horrified?) to have you on their side! ROFLMAO!
posted on September 3, 2002 11:20:52 AM new
ljart53,
how intelligent are you??
ebay buying paypal to shut it down??
what kind of parents send their children to your school??
posted on September 3, 2002 11:31:05 AM new
Since the issue being discussed here has to do with PayPal's (lack of) customer service, and the specific point is the number of people complaining (you say 3 or 4, just about everyone else would say something much more than that) - you need not refute what I'm about to paste - as it is, once again, the proof you've asked for:
( BW)(NY-JACOBY&MEYERS) Jacoby&Meyers Seeking Emergency Order in PayPal Consumer Lawsuit
Business Editors & Legal Writers
NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--...Since the filing of the lawsuit, Jacoby&Meyers has fielded thousands of complaints from PayPal customers, who allege mismanagement of their accounts or inability to communicate with PayPal representatives. The firm's Web site www.JacobyLawyers.com has been flooded with e-mails about frozen PayPal accounts.
You continue to post: A recent analysis of that hate sites prove the problems were not PayPals. The analysis (not done by me) of the complaints at one of the anomoyous PayPal hate sites yield the following results, 35 complaints, 9 lacked enough info to determine the problem, 5 were most probably (?) the victim of one of the scam sites or emails over which PayPal has no control, 8 plainly did not comply with the terms of use, and 13 demonstrated they did not understand and comply with the terms of use. NONE demonstrated an error by PayPal.
But you refuse to say where this analysis can be found. And you lack the credibility for most of us to just take your word for it. So how about it?
posted on September 3, 2002 12:12:17 PM new
...Additionally...
PayPal Draws Ire of Stranded Customers
Tom Mainelli, PCWorld.com
Thursday, March 21, 2002
...Several unhappy customers have even sought legal help. PayPal faces several class-action lawsuits, including one filed last week in San Jose, California. That suit, by attorneys at Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo in San Francisco, claims, among other things, that PayPal provides poor customer service.
"PayPal intentionally makes its customer service phone numbers difficult to find," the complaint alleges. "Customers complain that when they do manage to find a phone number to call, they are placed on hold for long periods of time, need to make multiple calls before they are actually able to speak to a live person, and are transferred from one PayPal representative to another."
Customer service representatives are often "rude and combative" and sometimes "hang up in the middle of calls," the complaint alleges. Overall, a lack of customer service at PayPal has frustrated many users, says Eric Gibbs, the attorney behind the complaint. "There are a lot of people out there who feel that they have been wronged by PayPal," he says.
