posted on August 5, 2001 07:42:44 PM new
Born at the Navy Hospital in Portsmouth, VA - we headed "home" when I was six weeks old.
Albuquerque, NM from then until age 25. (Well, with the exception of the summer we "moved" to WV to be near family...Mom and Aunt fought with all of em! Moving van got there and they told them to turn the damn thing around, we were going home. I think the whole thing was maybe 6 weeks? Made for an interesting "what I did on my summer vacation" when I started third grade!)
Denver, CO from 1991 til 1995.
Luck, Wisconsin ever since. I expect this is it for us for many years to come, if not forever.
posted on August 5, 2001 09:11:55 PM new
Born, raised and still live in Phoenix, Arizona. Second generation native even, which is rare 'round these parts. I guess I don't much like to move either...
posted on August 5, 2001 10:50:34 PM new
Wish It Could Be More Interesting:
Bayside, (Queens) NY
Stony Brook,(Long Island) NY
Great Neck, (Long Island) NY
Plantation, FL
Back To Great Neck, NY
Rochester, (Upstate) NY
Back To Bayside, NY
Boca Raton, FL
Delray Beach, FL
Deerfield Beach, FL
Chicago, IL (finally, a 3.5 year stay!yippee!!)
Parkland, FL (ahhh... it will be 10 years this month)
The only packing I do these days is for eBay
posted on August 5, 2001 11:27:06 PM new
I grew up in NYC and moved to a small Georgia city when I was a teenager. I've moved around to slightly bigger cities and very small communities around the area since, and ended up back in the same small city I originally moved to.
Our city isn't as bad as some. It's got a 4 year public university and a large state facility that attracts a pretty diverse range of people. And yet, in spite of a fair number of Indians, Cubans, Filipinos, Mexicans, foreign students, Yankees, etc., the place is peculiarly non-multicultural.
The South is a strange place in many ways, one of the ways being its obsession with the North. Only since moving to the South have I thought of myself as a Northerner. No one in New York or any of my relatives in other states ever thought of themselves as "Northerners." But it doesn't take being in the South long to realize they think of themselves as Southerners. It's an integral part of their world-view. And, of course, if you come here, you aree a Northerner.
We never thought of the South when I was growing up in NYC. I mean, we knew the South was there, just like the Midwest was there (somewhere), but we never thought of it as a separate entity. It was just one of the many places that wasn't NYC. I remember hearing, in passing, when I was in the 7th grade, either in a Social Studies book or from the Social Studies teacher, that Southern textbooks never referred to "The Civil War," but always called it "The War Between the States." I didn't believe that, it sounded ridiculous. I assumed either our textbook was outdated, or the teacher's information was. But when I moved here a few years later, I found out that was absolutely true. More than 100 years after the Civil War ended, it was not "The Civil War" in the South.
Maybe you don't have to have lived in different places to have well-rounded view. But, I do think there's a danger that's easy to fall prey to in growing up and living in an insulated society. It can make a difference, and, yes, it shows.
posted on August 5, 2001 11:38:54 PM new
All but about 1 year I lived here in Western PA. I quickly discovered that everything and everyone important to me was right here.
posted on August 6, 2001 12:09:22 AM new
OT to toke & saabsister - I did want to share something that is ironic. Our eldest son married a wonderful Japanese girl. Told my husband on their wedding day, the earth was moving....my parents were turning over in their graves.
posted on August 6, 2001 12:38:45 AM new
Spent the first 21 years of my life living in the same house just north of Chicago, IL. Up until then my sole life's ambition was to move somewhere warm. A friend and I moved down to Brownsville, TX (way down at the tail end) where I eventually met my husband. Since then we have been slowly moving north (McAllen, TX; Canyon Lake, TX; Madill, OK) trying to find a compromise since he loves the snow and hates the heat, and I like the heat and hate the snow.
posted on August 6, 2001 02:44:30 AM new
What a cosmopolitan group! No wonder we are independent and have so many different opinions.
Born in Milw, Wis 3 years
Raised Delafield, Wi. 14 years
Chicago, Ill. 16 years
Moved out after the Chicago 7 and the
riots and burning started.
Knox, In, 1 year
Rochester, In, 6 years
Summerton, S.C. 3 years
Salama, Guatemala 1 year
Moved when the shooting started
Phoenix, Az 1 year
N.Myrtle Bch, S.C. 2 years
Calabash, N.C 2 year
Boston, Ma. areas 2 year
Florida areas 13 years
(minus almost a year back in Rochester, In. Went up for the summer and broke my leg and had to stay thru the winter.That was enough to convince me I never want to spend another winter north of the Florida border!)
posted on August 6, 2001 06:10:02 AM new
Donny, I bet you did think of yourself as a New Yorker and if you had met a Southern there, you would have thought of them as a Southerner.
I call the Civil War the "Civil War". Yet the significence in the name "The War Between The States" is that the South did not see it as a "civil rights" issue but as a matter of big government taking away states rights and basically doing what England had done previously and they had already fought against and won. That didn't make slavery right but the North was engaged in slavery as well, it just wasn't the "issue". Only later as a "tactic" was the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" circulated as an "advertising gimick" to build sympathetic support in the north and the "issue defined" by the north as the issue of slavery. That is NOT why the South was fighting. It WAS fighting because the north was taxing the South heavily and keeping those taxes in the north while there was great poverty in the South. MOST textbooks give a onesided northern view.
I suggest a book titled "Landmark History of the American People, Vol. 1" written by Boorstin, former Librarian of Congress.
Much of the South still feels that we do not need to be Californized, or Nothernized. Many Southerns of all races are in agreement that the rest of the country is going down the moral tubes and dragging us with them. Whatever lingering problems we have that remain, are internal and we are making significent progress. We don't need outside assistance any longer.
Because a way of life, a common mindset, is different than your area, does not make it "broken". As an example, take the prayer in school issue. IF an ENTIRE community agrees that they want prayer in public school, if the issue is brought forward inviting opposition and is totally hinges on ONE objection, and NO ONE objects, why should big government hundreds of miles away determine what is best for that community and the individuals in it? One of the largest public high schools in our state has publically and officially deemed after due process that their WILL BE prayer in public school. They break the law (i.e. the set of standards of another community far away) by doing so. This is an example of big government interference in state and community rights and is the same issue that brought on the Civil War. It WASN'T about slavery nor about racism. That came after the fact....and admitedly it WAS a good cause, though not the issue.
As for growing up in an "insulated society", If some feel that that is a "better" way, it should be an option. Why do you think 2% of America's children are NOT in school? I think this article will explain it:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/PoliticsOfSurvival.asp In a sense homeschoolers all over the US ARE the "new South" fighting the war of Individual Freedom v. Government control.
Please note that Mississippi was 6 years AHEAD of New York in freeing it's citizens from unjust educational, political, moral, and anti-religious indoctrination. But..we are happy that New York finally came around.
posted on August 6, 2001 08:12:29 AM new
"Yet the significence in the name "The War Between The States" is that the South did not see it as a "civil rights" issue but as a matter of big government taking away states rights and basically doing what England had done previously and they had already fought against and won."
Say what???
Absolutely wrong. The reason Southerners don't call it "The Civil War" is because a civil war denotes a war by two factions within the same country (as in "The Spanish Civil War" ). Southerners insist that the Southern states had legally seceded and formed a new country, the Confederate States of America, and therefore the war was not a "civil war" but a war between two legally separate countries.
Whether the South had legally ceceded, making it a "civil" war or not is a validly arguable point. What it has to do with your understanding, which seems to be something to do with "civil rights," I haven't a clue.
Is that what you teach your children? I wish I could say I was shocked.
(smiley)
[ edited by donny on Aug 6, 2001 08:13 AM ]
posted on August 6, 2001 09:45:16 AM new
Born in Brooklyn, 1969.
Grew up in Key Largo, FL.
New York City...spent 7 yrs there after high school.
Gainesville, FL past 8 years.
posted on August 6, 2001 09:48:44 AM new
Ok, well I admit that I was reaching there. I was thinking maybe that the similarity of the words "civil war" and "civil rights" had at somepoint influenced the use of the word by textbook authors. I have honestly never seen a textbook that deliberately EXCLUDED the term "civil war". "War between the states" would still indicate the same thing...states, not separate countries, so after considering that route it still didn't make sense.
I DO know what "civil war" means. I may be argumentative but I am not ignorant.
Everything else that I said still stands.
T
And, what I teach my kids is of NO concern to you. The law has made that very clear.
[ edited by jt on Aug 6, 2001 09:50 AM ]
posted on August 6, 2001 10:44:40 AM new
I was born in Southeastern KY. Spent my early years there, learning I was white trash.
Moved to Indiana, at age 13. My father, got a construction job building a G.M. plant.
Here, I found out, I was still white trash but, there was also black trash, yellow trash And other colors of trash.
Moved to Ohio, found out Ohio had the same kind of people trash.
Moved back to Indiana, with a lot of knowledge about people trash. Found out that one person's trash is another person's treasure.
Joined the United States Marine Corps, to see the world. I saw the world & a war. (During that time, married my wife, to become her treasure. )
Returned to Indiana, only to find out that I was not only still white trash, but also a baby killer, Drug addict, and many other things to numerous type.
But what to hell, I still live in Indiana retired. Married more than 35 years to the same person. Two children. One a educator. The other a Dum pro Football player with 2 college degrees.
posted on August 6, 2001 11:07:13 AM new
I still live within 70 miles of where I was born and have never lived anywhere else. Traveled plenty, but never found any place better.
To Fred: THANK YOU for your service to our country.
posted on August 6, 2001 12:16:40 PM new
Terri....
If you've never seen a textbook that "deliberately excluded" the term "Civil War," have you at least seen textbooks that call it anything but that? If so, those are books that deliberately exclude this terminology. You must have seen these, the links you post are full of them.
Everyone in the whole country, and the whole world, thinks of this "War between the States," this "War of Northern Aggression," this "War for Southern Independence," this "Recent Unpleasantness," as "The Civil War." Nowhere else but in the South will you hear it referred to as anything but "The Civil War." This doesn't strike you as noteworthy? It wouldn't, if you've never known anything else. What we grow up with becomes familiar to us. It doesn't seem odd.
"The War between the States," is a euphimism created specifically to avoid designating the conflict as a "civil war." It does not mean a war between the Northern states in America and the Southern states in America. It means the war between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. If it meant what you seem to think it means, that euphimism would never have been created in the first place or continued for 100 years later.
posted on August 6, 2001 12:51:09 PM new
London, England (born there)
Silver Spring, Maryland
Monterey, California
Silver Spring, Maryland
Naples, Italy
Silver Spring, Maryland
Beirut, Lebanon
Bethesda, Maryland
Lexington, Virginia
My father was a career Naval officer. I had a wonderful childhood; Beirut in the late 1950s was a particularly profound learning experience for me. There was great wealth in Beirut, a lot of which came from American expatriots, but there was also dire poverty and illness. Surrounding our apartment building (which was luxurious, and my father was only a lieutenant) were shanties with no roofs; from our balcony I could see people walking around in their houses. in which the matresses were on the floor. The drinking water for these houses was collected in a wooden rail barrel that was left outdoors at all times; the surface of the water was slimy green and insects buzzed around it. Everything I saw taught me that I was not the center of the universe and how very lucky I was to be an American. I'm certainly not a jingoist, but when I hear some of the things about which some of my fellow citizens complain concerning life in the States, I want to ship them overseas to see what real deprivation and repression are all about.
posted on August 6, 2001 03:15:49 PM new
Donny. I honestly can't recall any such thing odd. I went to a private shcool where we bought used books from Nothern schools at times and all the rest we used like McGraw-Hill, Holt, and stuff. I was looking at boys and I probably was not paying attention. College? I was busy working a full-time job. I got A's but I honestly don't remember the WORDING OF THE TEXT.
Now, with my kids, we use some recent textbooks, both Christian publishers and secular but usually Christian (A Beka, Bob Jones), but we most often use whole books. I used Landmark History of the American People for 4th grade, and I will be using this very soon:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0195127749.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg Whatever we use, we also read many historical novels and biographies along with the text to get a well rounded picture.
I don't have a clue as to what you are talking aobut actually. So I CAN'T ARGUE A "SIDE".
If I had to say that I HAVE seen any such thing, I believe it would be something like:
THE CIVIL WAR
The war between the states....blah blah blah.
I have seen NO distorted use of one term or another. Everyone in my lifetime in my circle has called it THE CIVIL WAR. *shrug*
OK?
T
~link, It's on Amazon, 11 volume set.
[ edited by jt on Aug 6, 2001 03:19 PM ]
posted on August 6, 2001 04:04:01 PM new
I know you don't understand what I'm talking about, Terri. I'll try to put it a slightly different way.
There is no "North" anymore. Yes, I thought of myself as a "New Yorker," and I always will. But no one in the North thinks of himself as a "Northerner." Southerners speak of "Northern influences." They believe there is a "North" in the same way that there is a "South." There isn't. You see yin, and of course you assume there is yang. There isn't.
There isn't a "South" that you and people of your mind can claim. We're all part of the same country. If that was ever in doubt, it was settled in the 1860's. You lost. Get over it.
The "New South" you speak of is, in fact, the same "Old South," and still angrily insisting it doesn't need any outside agitation -
"Whatever lingering problems we have that remain, are internal and we are making significent progress. We don't need outside assistance any longer."
Yeah, and Southerners said that exact same thing in the 1860's, straight through to the 1960's, and are still saying it today. They said it when they were forced to implement voting rights, and said it when they were forced to desegregate schools, they said it when they were forced to abolish Jim Crow laws.
"We don't need outside assistance any longer." Love that. And yet, I am also "we," Terri, and so are my children. We are "The New South," Me, my family that's lived in the South for 20 plus years, my half-Yankee children, and all the rest of us "furreners."
You are the "(Same) Old South."
posted on August 6, 2001 06:30:30 PM new
Born in Deland Florida,lived in;
Daytona Beach, Fla. Orlando Fla. Fort Pierce Fla. Auburn,N.Y. Danville, Ky. Manchester,KY.
posted on August 6, 2001 08:00:40 PM new
Oh, I wondered how long it would be before a version of "Why don't you go back where you came from?" was offered.
posted on August 7, 2001 01:11:05 AM new
Iowa
Texas(multiple times)
Washington state(multiple times)
California
Georgia
Kansas
Japan
Turkey
the Netherlands
Azores
Germany
I can't imagine living in any one spot for more than a few years.
posted on August 7, 2001 05:40:12 AM new
Blondesense, when did you live in Madill? My father was raised there and my grandmother was the postmistress there until her death in about 1986.
I guess I don't much like to move either...
Hippy wannabe 
~^~
