posted on September 12, 2001 06:30:59 AM new
While I don't let myself be a doormat, I am by nature a pacifist.
But this situation in the middle eastern nations has been going on since World War II. How many lives have been lost in Palestine, Iraq, Iran, fighting over religion, oil, land, ad infinitum? Any peace conferences, diplomatic moves, blockades, etc, have accomplished nothing.
We are dealing with people who do not have the reverence for life that Christian countries do..humans are just commodities to be used to further their causes. They have proven that over again.
As much as I would hate to see any innocents in those countries sacrificed, as much as I detest mass killing and war....it appears that the only way to stop what is going on in the middle east is to eliminate the middle east. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it is time to bomb Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan into oblivion and end their reign of terror and death. Nobody wanted to bomb Hiroshima, but it did end the war.
May God bless the rescue workers, victims, and families in New York and Washington. God bless America!!!
posted on September 12, 2001 06:43:47 AM new
Guess we can't do that. BUT, bin laden has been wanted by the U.S. for some time. Let's just go and get him. Ollie North probably knows where he is. Probably would have taken care of him years ago, if we had let him. As far as Iraq goes, didn't we beat hell out of them and make them sign agreements which have never been kept? Let's send the inspection teams in there with an entire army and enforce those agreements.
posted on September 12, 2001 06:53:29 AM new
I'm no pacifist, but I say wait. Bury our dead.
Start with every known terrorist training camp, press office, camp, printing press and newspaper. Make sure we get each target completely destroyed. If a well placed 100 lb cruise warhead will get the job done, use a 1000 pounder and be sure. Don't worry about collateral damage, encourage it.
Move on to government targets, public facilities,power plants, TV Stations, bridges,
highways, ports, airports. Please be sure to totally destroy the target.
Finally, move on to the most prominent and important non military structures, the tallest building in every town, the greatest monuments, ALL major financial center buildings.
Terrorists, and the masses of the population of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Palestine etc that support them must be made to suffer. Terribly. If and when we make it clear that any attack on Americans and American facilities will bring cruel and massive retribution, way out of proportion to the precipitating event will this #*!@ end.
posted on September 12, 2001 06:59:43 AM new
Donny, read carefully. I don't WANT to kill anyone, personally or as a nation.
If we had not bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, how many more American lives would have been lost in World War II? If we don't stop these maniacs, how many more buildings full of people will they bomb or otherwise destroy?
Those brave people in the Pittsburgh crashed plane had the right idea. They sacrificed themselves to stop that plane from killing thousands more innocents. Sometimes it takes a sacrifice of lives in order to save many more lives.
This is not a time in our country for bleeding heart liberalism-it is a time to stand up and say we will not be terrorized. I have two sons who are of draft age. i sure don't want them in a war. But neither do I want them to have to raise their families in fear.
As for 'finding' Bin Laden, they've been trying that for years, and look what all he's done during that time.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:21:39 AM new
Even catching and punishing those responsible will not help secure our nation, in fact it will give rise to more terrorist attacks.
These zealots will train up more suicidal bombers, only next time it will be nuclear and/or biological and more devastating. Do we want to wait for this to happen ?
The only way to gain security for the West is to bring Islam to its knees and cut its head off.
Israel has been
catching and killing terrorists for 50 years, and they still must have a military security state and it has devasted their economy. They can never let their guard down.
We are at war not with a country or a cell of terrorists, we are at war with a culture that produces, activly and passivly supports, suicidal murderers whose goal in this world is to inflict as much damage to the West as is possible, by any means possible.
Catching a group of them will be a hollow and short lived "victory".
posted on September 12, 2001 07:36:56 AM new
REAMOND, I think your right. Yesterday will go down in history as the first day of world war III. We are going to have to invade some of these countries, and install enough troops to police them, or leave ourselves open to more of the same.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:37:33 AM newREAMOND:Catching a group of them will be a hollow and short lived "victory".
That is true. Last night Bush said the first thing I have ever agreed with him on: retaliation will encompass the terrorists who did this and the country which harbors them.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:49:51 AM newI can't believe this.
Believe it donny. We are not going to let people do this to us. We will do what ever it takes to make sure people don't keep doing it. Believe it donny, the world changed yesterday, the gaunlet <sp?> was thrown down, and we will pick it up, and beat the hell out the people that threw it down.
posted on September 12, 2001 07:54:48 AM new
Every Islamic country activly or passivly supports these groups. You would be surprised how much money finds its way to these groups from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and even Arabs living in the U.S..
The Islamic countries "condemn" this action publicly, but privately they support these acts.
The Islamic religion says it is OK and one is expected to lie to "infidels".
This culture is sworn to destroy Israel and the U.S..
I would be extremely in favor of catching and killing those directly responsible for these attacks if it would make our country secure again, but it won't.
We may have flights begin today at some airports with "high security". So do you think that the terrorists will use planes the next time.
Find our weakest point and they will be there. Next time it will be nuclear or biological.
If we want our security it will mean destroying Islam.
Some of the finest firemen in the world were slaughtered Tuesday. These were men and woman willing to lay down their lives for people from all nations. It has be estimated that the second jet to hit the WTC was purposely delayed so as to lure the emergency personel in for the second attack.
When association ans assimilation fail, extermination is the last resort, and the last alternative.
Bush just now as much as admitted that the U.S. is pretty much helpless to do anything in the near future to get those "responsible". Supposedly we will get them in "time". Hell, some of those responsible are in NY at the United Nations. We're screwed.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:29:28 AM new
They would never do it but wouldn't it frost their cake to drop a big nuke on Mecca and leave a crater about 3 miles across for them to bow to? Let Allah stop the incoming if he loves a warrior so much.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:34:57 AM new
Destroy Islam? They are saying the same thing. To find their security, they have to destroy US. But, its not the same thing, is it? Of course not.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:39:46 AM newThey are saying the same thing. To find their security, they have to destroy US. But, its not the same thing, is it?
Not quite, but even if it was, If one or the other must be destroyed, I know what my choice is.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:46:34 AM newWe are dealing with people who do not have the reverence for life that Christian countries do..humans are just commodities to be used to further their causes. They have proven that over again.
I watched a news show last night (I think it was ABC but I was switching around so I'm not real sure) that had file footage on Bin Laden. Who he was, how he came to be and what he thought about America and why. I learned a bit....the man is crazy-that is myAmerican viewpoint!
That was basically the crutch of the story. We Americans don't realize just how "free" we are. We are so totally different "culturally" as to be totally unable to comprehend such "madmen". The statement the reporter made (I think it was Peter Jennings) was that until we can understand what motivates these people, how they think and why, we will never be really effective at resolving any problems with them.
Bin Laden was a very rich 19YOA Arab who left his home and went to Afganistan to help that Muslim nation fight off the "infidels" that were invading them (Russia). Since that time he has used his fortune (his family is worth billions and his personal worth is estimated at 500 million) to aid his causes. His causes seem to be totally focused on the Muslim world vs the rest of the world. One of the reasons Afganistan has steadfastly refused to hand him over, is no doubt, the fact that he has been their "champion" for the majority of his life! He views American as a nation of people who believe it's our way or no way. We are right and everyone else is wrong and we don't mind our government stepping into foreign places if it will benefit us or satisfy our notions of "right".
I can't argue that he's wrong about that. Read this board and you quickly see that we peace loving, freedom loving, live-and-let-live Americans won't hesitate to support our government and stand behind our nation's leaders 100% and recommend to them that we go and flatten any country that harbors any different beliefs or do things differently than we do!
We're right by God and that's all there is to it!
No I don't support the right to terrorism in any form, shape or fashion (I'm an American and it is totally alien and repulsive to me) but I also think our "attitudes" are what makes us targets and disliked by probably 1/2 the rest of the world!
What's the solution to this tragedy? I don't know what we should do short of starting a world war, if it turns out this was indeed Bin Laden or a Bin Laden sponsored act. I say sponsored, because according to the report last night, in addition to training terrorist groups to aid them in their fights for "freedom", he also hands out what amounts to "grants" to any group with a justified (from their viewpoint) grievance against the infidels (which seems to be anyone not Muslim)!
posted on September 12, 2001 08:54:26 AM new
My Plan: circle Afganistan with our fighter jets (the biggest, baddest ones we got!) give the Afganistan PTB 1 hour to produce Bin Lauden. No Bin = No Afganistan, simple! Of course, he claims although he is happy to see what has happened, he was not responsible, still NOT a problem. The acts of these people defy any logic, so revenge shall be the same, in this case as well as any futher cases. We get attacked, we then attack a terrorist group (any one, doesn't matter which) Fight insanity with insanity!
Of course "my plan" is based solely on my emotions right now, waking up this morning to the realization of the magnitude of what has happened sinking in slowly, but surely.
posted on September 12, 2001 08:56:46 AM new
We do not advocate flattening countries that "believe" differently than us.
We will flatten countries that use violence to enforce their beliefs on the rest of us. WE WENT INTO BOSNIA TO KEEP THE MUSLIMS FROM BEING EXTERMINATED THERE - YES THE U.S., THE GREAT SATAN.
It is not about a country, it is about a religious culture whose ends is the destruction of our people and way of life by any means possible.
What more do we need to understand ? Are the thousands killed on US soil not enough to get the picture ?
Our "restraint" and naivette will be our downfall.
edited to add- The Islamic countries also hand out chunks of money to the families of these "matyrs" flying the planes or blowing themselves up in a crowded market in Israel.
After these attacks, seeking a "peaceful resolution" is surrender of our way of life.
Until the cesspools are destroyed which activly and passivly support terrorist actions are wiped out, our way of life is doomed.
posted on September 12, 2001 09:02:12 AM new
Then you think we should do what and to whom? If you say we're not advocating flattening a foreign country that believes different than we do, what are you saying?
"It is not about a country, it is about a religious culture whose ends is the destruction of our people and way of life by any means possible."
A religious culture that just happens to be a country actually a lot of countries. How do you change their religious culture without changing the country?
Should we ask all non Christian peoples of the world to please step forward and either convert or be exterminated?
Unfortunately, from what little I know about that religion, it will be difficult to seperate the culture from the country to get rid of one, you might have to get rid of the other.
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Sep 12, 2001 09:06 AM ]
posted on September 12, 2001 09:22:11 AM new
The best process for the moment is for everyone to vent their fears, anger, and make it through the grieving process. Like all the rest of you I'm dealing with a bevy of emotions myself. I think it would be wise to wait and see what this administration does, putting all our political differences aside. We need to give them the chance and support to do their job. Additionally, the President laid forth some ground rules letting the Arab nations know they are on report and subject to retribution if they harbor these mass murderers. Our country was forever changed yesterday, and I believe the American public (or most of it) is finally waking up and smelling the coffee brewing that our borders and interior are not safe!
Someone mentioned that stamping out Islam is the answer and there is some merit in what they said. In the old Testament, that's essentially what the nation of Israel was commanded to do by God. Go in, take the land from the Canaanites, kill all it's inhabitants (men, women, children and livestock). The Canaanites were a terrible, ruthless, murdererous people possessing a culture birthing activities that would be on par and perhaps worse, with the same devotion to violence and lack of reverance for life the terrorists of today have. Their culture was influenced by their religious beliefs and vice versa much like the Arab nations of today. Those cultural practices chosen and embraced by those ancient people proved they were worthy of being destroyed. However, what worked in that century (and it didn't completely) won't necessarily work today either and this is why. After all the "political correctness" and "reason with your enemy" mentality being inculcated and forged into the mind of American culture, does the American public really have the backbone to seriously go to all out war? I'm not so sure. Anger and determination are not synonyms.
posted on September 12, 2001 09:24:29 AM new
outoftheblue, dont feel alone. What you see being said here is being said all over the place. Scarey, aint it?
posted on September 12, 2001 09:31:09 AM new
I guess the big difference is that one side - the terrorists - has the desire to destroy the US. The other side - the US does not have any particular desire to destroy the whole culture and base of operations of the terrorists but DOES have the ability.
Right now it looks to me by analogy very much like a house full of people who have a cousin who just robbed a bank and shot people and ran back and hid in the family home and they are refusing to turn him over to the police.
You can only go so far in sheltering someone before you are an accomplice. There are innocent people in the house? Well they better tell the head of the family to get off the porch and shut up before you get us all killed.
posted on September 12, 2001 09:34:35 AM new
Well, God also told Abraham it was OK to send Ishmel away, as Sarah wanted him to, because he would raise a great nation up out of him too! I have been told that if you ask a Muslim who their God is, they will tell you their God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob! The great nation raised up out of Ishmel was the Arabic nation and that God foretold they would be a nation always at war!
I can't find anything in the Bible that indicates God intended eventually for the people of Abraham to destroy the people of Ishmel or vice-versa. Maybe we all should go back and read our God's word again. Them and us!
While I'm on this subject...to be a Christian basically means "following the teachings of Christ"....Jesus said "love thy enemies". You will not find one verse that indicates he ever said it's OK not to! That's a hard one and sometimes, I don't think it is something I can truly accomplish. Does that mean I am "lost"?
