posted on September 12, 2001 09:50:35 AM newHas everyone lost their minds?
I don't know about everyone but I know I'm alternating between crazy with grief and crazy with rage.
Some may be able to elevate themselves above such emotions. I'm not able to at the moment. The images on the TV made me physically ill. I'm not able to be Gandhi right now.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:03:46 AM newIf we want our security it will mean destroying Islam.
Wow. You can't put a link to an auction in a post here, but you can advocate genocide.
I assume this solution includes the destruction of not only the population of the arab states, but Indonesia, Pakistan, and the pokets if Islam which dot Asia and Europe.
In Northern Ireland, huge proportions of the population on both sides of the line do not support the terrorist activities conducted in the name of their faith. The same is true here. Spittle-spewing froth-mouthed American advocates of a Holy War are no better than their jihading Islamic counterparts.
-gaffan- [email protected]
posted on September 12, 2001 10:05:05 AM new
sulyn1950,
In that same story on the spat between Sara and Hagar, there is prophecy stating there will be emnity between Jacob and Ishmael (sorry, I don't have the address handy). We are seeing that continue in our day.
"While I'm on this subject...to be a Christian basically means "following the teachings of Christ"....Jesus said "love thy enemies"."
posted on September 12, 2001 10:05:14 AM new
>>"I'm alternating between crazy with grief and crazy with rage."<<
I can understand that. All I felt yesterday was saddness but I've never had a desire for revenge. Revenge and justice are not quite the same.
Harrassing American citizens of a certain ethnic origin is not justice and is inexcusable. Calling for the blood of innocent people is not justice and is inexcusable.
Nobody knows at this point who actually did the dirty work. I do recall seeing leaders from middle east nations that were saddened and outraged by what happened.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Sep 12, 2001 10:06 AM ]
posted on September 12, 2001 10:11:22 AM new
readmond,
That you are an atheist is your issue. On defending America I'm with you 100%. Exterminating Islam you're dreaming buddy! That will never happen!
posted on September 12, 2001 10:13:02 AM new
Islam is no more a race or religion than Nazism is.
Genicide is killing people for what they are not what they do.
The Islamic culture in the Middle East both activly and passivly supports the violence against the West. Annililating these populations is no different than the bombing of Dresden in WWII.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:14:08 AM new"I'm not able to be Gandhi right now."
Actually, I'm not either, that's why I hope and pray someone who really matters can be!
I also believe that this is about survival or at least the survival of our way of life!
If there is a "declaration of war" against any and all terrorist, it will not necessarily be all fought on foreign soil. Yesterday proved that. Are we, as a nation, ready to have a full scale all out war on our soil? Are we, as a nation, ready to spill blood theirs and more importantly ours right here, perhaps right in our own back yards?
posted on September 12, 2001 10:18:02 AM newdbsnd-Yes it is and yes you are correct. Yes, it was foretold we would not get along, but it did not fortell we should destroy each other! I guess we are suppose to figure a way to work it out between us.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:18:12 AM new
To blame Islam is to blame all religion. More people have been killed in the name of some religion, deity or set of beliefs than all the deaths from war over territories, sovereignty, power or politics.
I don't worship ANY invisible man in the sky so religion is no factor in my thinking.
My thought is simple retribution, and at the same time an object lesson - mess with us, get hurt BAD. I believe in MASSIVE retaliation. 100 to one on body counts suits me fine. They want to be martyrs and die for Allah? I'm all for helping them in large numbers.
Just heard some redneck on the radio said the whole attack was because the Supreme Court took prayer out of schools!!
posted on September 12, 2001 10:20:03 AM new
This fervor is predictable, understandable today, but the things being cast about in here are dangerous to as many innocent countrymen of ours as died yesterday. My wife Chris told me that not one of the arab employees in the postal facility that she is in reported to work yesterday. To promote an intolerance of those in the middle east cannot be restrained to them only, it will extend to those here, and maybe even to people who look like they MIGHT be arabic.
Look at this board and what is being cast around. It's awful. And it's counter to those things that this country is supposed to represent. Obviously the feelings or will expressed in there are not exclusive to AW. I fear that this entire country may be raised to a fever pitch and that very regrettable things will result.
How can we embark on a holy jihad while criticizing other peoples for doing the same thing? The place of leadership in the world requires that this country transcend responses in kind and address the differences which bring about these sorts of problems. I think that Bill Clinton knew that, and as a result there has been relative quite for a few years. But someone is doing all he can to raise the pitch to a level that Americans will think that they are on a holy crusade against all evil. It's absolutely crazy and he might succeed given the man on the street mentality.
I hate this. I don't want war ever again. You have no idea how brutal and bloody it is. If reason and a willingness to listen and make
concessions can avoid that, then I'm all for it. For that, patriotism be damned.
A few months ago you were distressed by the fact that 21 marines died in a crash and were not in the hearts and minds of the posters on this board. All of them were men who had voluntarily agreed to place themselves in harms way to protect us all, all of them knew that death was a constant possibility in their chosen field of endeavor.
10,000 or so of your countrymen were killed yesterday, the vast majority of them civilians with no more to do with government policy than you or I and you want to ignore that? Is no retribution called for?
Maybe if it had been 10,000 Marines you would be upset. Or 10,000 Postal workers.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:44:58 AM new
donrob,
That's bull. I supported a poster who pointed out that more was made of the death of a racing car driver that day then was made of those marines.
Until you're ass has been on the line you have no ground to stand on when positing to place anyone else's there. You go wave your arms and shout from the safety of your armchair?
posted on September 12, 2001 10:51:27 AM newUntil you're ass has been on the line
Well, mine has. I spent 14 years in the army. I don't want to exterminate these people, but I do want to punish them, and make sure they can't do this again. Even if we have to invade and install a police force large enough to make sure they can't do this again. If someone has to live under marshall law, why should it be us?
You have no idea of how or where I served, nor does it matter. Calling for or supporting military action against an enemy is not dependent on one's former service - a belief that such action is needed is. If the former were true then Clinton could not have in fairness sent US troops to Yugoslavia or elsewhere. And I issue my comments from a desk chair, just as you do.
You didn't answer the question. Is retribution called for?
posted on September 12, 2001 10:55:52 AM new
The only "peaceful" resolution we can hope for from this attack is to live in a police state like Israel. Identities cards, check points, the whole thing.
To attempt to resolve differences and greivances with the Islamic terrorists now is to show the world that terrorism is effective.
At some point war is necessary and innocent people are killed in wars. I suppose only a second attack with nuclear or bio in the U.S. might convince some that annihilation is necessary for those who activly and passivly support and defend these suicidal murderers.
We do have choices. Either live like Israel in a constant police state or destroy the systems, institutions, and people that bring these terrorists upon us.
posted on September 12, 2001 10:58:27 AM newdonrob2-Are you saying that the death of citizens who "sign up" is any less a tragedy than those that don't?
If you are, keep in mind that your MASSIVE retaliation, will require those who "chose" to be soldiers to step up to the plate and die in mass for us!
Historically, it has always been easy enough to send our troops off to war for a good cause, but we have not (since the civil war) invited the enemy to our shores!
If anyone thinks we can just send the "professionals" (armed forces) to some distant country and then sit back and watch justice being extracted on the 6:00PM news, they may be sadly mistaken.
Until and when, we as a nation, are ready to tell these zelots, "come on over to our place and give us your best shot and we'll show you what we're made of", then we should do our best to avoid such a confrontation!
I am a realist and most probably a coward....I can talk the talk, but I don't know if I can truly walk the walk!
Even if I could, is that really what's best for America and the world????????
posted on September 12, 2001 10:59:47 AM new
donrob,
I won't discuss anything with you. Your comment "Maybe if it had been 10,000 Marines you would be upset. Or 10,000 Postal workers"
displays your pettiness.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:09:31 AM new
Our forces are not effective at selctivly getting terrorists. No modern army is. We've tried for 3 years to get Bin Laden.
That is why we are forced to either to go in and destroy it all, just as we started to do to Iraq, or live in a police state like Israel.
Attempting to send in mic forces looking for an individual, like happened in Africa, doesn't work and gets servicemen killed.
The terrorist infrastructure is throughout Middle Eastern Islam hiding and being aided by what many think are "innocent" and "legitimate" institutions and people. It even has tenticles that operate here on U.S. soil.
We either have to live like inmates in our own coutry or start producing smoke and rubble, and dead bodies, in the Islamic countries that are putting this death and destruction upon us.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:10:09 AM new
Sulyn,
They have already stepped up and given us their best shot - that was yesterday. What do we do about it? Since KRS isn't speaking to me, perhaps you would care to answer.
posted on September 12, 2001 11:16:48 AM new
Sorry, donrob2, but " being in the Army isn't being on the line" ARE different! If you were ever "on the line" like my husband, my son, or krs; ...... then you would know the difference. But, for now, this really does not matter; all the opinions are just THAT...OPINIONS. WE will solve nothing. I do not (WILL NOT) believe we are at war. War was basically declared on us by terrorists.....we (our leaders) WILL resolve this; not anyone on these boards. Evidently all we can do is banter back and forth.
donrob2 The comment regarding the postal workers is truly way out of line and a little desperate. (OK moderator, have at me)
[ edited by nanastuff on Sep 12, 2001 11:20 AM ]
