posted on October 19, 2001 12:15:27 AM new
A very very good friend of mine is a Transsexual woman. She is on hormones and lives as a woman - except for when she is at work. She is an iron worker/construction worker and she can't financially afford to quit her job yet because her sex change surgery will be very very expensive. So she wears a loose shirt to hide her chest and men's clothes and no make up on the job and her co-workers still think she is a man. Her job was being one of the crew to be called in to the WTC site on September 11th. She was digging for 30 hours. She saw things too horrendous for me to even repeat here because I know it will really upset people terribly. She has been crying and having nightmares ever since. I have been spending time with her, her friends have all been there for her, she has been writing about it, talking to a counselor about it, trying to heal from the experience she went through. One night we were going out, she was waiting for me by the movie theatre, she was all dressed up in her "girl clothes", with her make up on, etc., and a bunch of guys on the street who saw her as a "man in women's clothes" started laughing right at her and said to her "What the hell are YOU supposed to be?" She told me she didn't answer them (she knew what they'd do to her), she just thought "I'M someone who was digging at the site for 30 hours. What the hell are YOU supposed to be?"
I guess they were just supposed to be bigots. I would rather be like her than like them ANY day.
posted on October 19, 2001 06:03:19 AM new
Your other thread about going to the site got derailed, but I wanted to thank you for your insights the last few days.
I lived in Hoboken and worked in Manhattan a few years ago, and your posts have given me some idea of what's going on that the news just can't.
As to bigots, most have no self-worth and are stupid narrow minded morons. Their opinions mean nothing, and I hope your friend didn't take their comments to heart.
posted on October 19, 2001 06:35:17 AM new
nycrocker, it's too bad there are so many insecure morons out there. A friend of mine has a wonderful garden on the main street in town. When he and his partner worked in the yard, local idiots would drive by and yell "You F*ing Weirdos". He, his partner and their roommate had tee shirts made with huge letters YFW on them. They'd wear them to garden and proudly flash them at the local yokels who harassed them. I don't think I could be as even tempered as he is.
posted on October 19, 2001 07:09:16 AM new
Rocker, some people just can't get past the outside to see what's inside. Whether it's ignorance, fear, bigotry, whatever, it always surprises me how prevalent judgement is. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on October 19, 2001 12:20:54 PM new
Unfortunately, even in times like these, some people still are who they are.
Heroes come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.
News FLASH...
they also comes in all genders, regardless of their sexual identities or preferences.
FWIW, she's all woman to me.
Braver than most of us, I might add.
She's all hero, too.
Please thank her for me, Rocker. Please tell her that I admire and respect her, too.
She seems like the type of a woman that doesn't give a rats azz what I think. All the more reason she may need to hear it?
My opinion isn't worth much, but it's all I have to offer today...
posted on October 19, 2001 04:37:26 PM new
ROCKER - I don't post here anymore, but will gladly make the exception, this time, to tell you how HAPPY I am to hear that you are OK.
This is a bright spot in a very dark month or so.
As for the morons - simply give the comments the weight they deserve - in exact proportion to the respect that you might have for the speakers. If they deserve zero respect, their comments get zero weight and importance.
posted on October 19, 2001 04:51:48 PM new
I admit that I am totally confused by your post. Can you explain what color baby bracelet they put on "her" at birth so that maybe I can try to get a grasp of what you said?
posted on October 19, 2001 06:43:21 PM new
Blue, terri. A transsexual woman is one who is born male but alters her body through surgery and hormones, and adopts a female role in society, to better conform to the person she feels she is inside.
rocker's friend is a MTF (male-to-female) transsexual in a stage known as transitioning, or RLT (real life transition) and is also undergoing HRT (hormone replacement therapy) before her SRS (sex reassignment surgery). All this while volunteering at the WTC. (Sorry, couldn't resist all those acronyms, lol.)
Transitioning is supposed to be a a make-or-break period, where you weed out the men from the girls, so to speak. Some people seek sex change surgery for the wrong reasons, and the period of transitioning -- in which candidates are expected to dress, live and work as women 24/7 for 2-3 years -- serves as "trial by fire" in which those who are really meant to change their sex can prove themselves, and those who aren't can discover that it's not right for them and bail out before undergoing irreversible surgery.
rocker's friend is in a tight spot because she's still got one foot in both worlds -- man by day, woman by night. Most experts advise against this approach. They recommend total commitment so that the world receives no ambiguous messages about who the
person really is. It eliminates the stress of living with a secret and lets the person focus completely on moving forward and building a new life for herself.
But sometimes that's not practical. Even transsexuals have to make a living, and the sad fact is that almost nobody wants to hire them unless they are 100% undetectable as former men and can slip into the new job unnoticed. For this reason, many transsexuals transition while they already have a job. They sit down with their boss before they begin their transition, explain what's about to happen, and ask for the boss's assistance and the company's support. Sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't. In a good situation, the boss will listen, retain his or her composure, and then ask pertinent questions. Following that, the boss or the transsexual, or both, issue a matter-of-fact memo to all the other employees or maybe hold a meeting in which the news is shared and people are given an opportunity to ask questions. From what I've read, Which bathroom will you use? seems to get asked quite a bit. Then, ideally, everybody goes back to work and the new woman blends into her new role.
Doesn't always work out that way, though. Despite the acceptance and tolerance of other employees, some transsexuals find they just can't continue to work at a place where everybody knew them as John. So a year or two later, when they are more secure in their new role, they switch jobs and start anew.
Still, that's a positive result. But there's the other side of the coin to consider. The people who have bosses who freak out, or co-workers who refuse to work with them because their own sexuality is threatened. They usually don't get fired right away, but six or eight months later the company manages to fabricate a reason to lay them off or let them go.
The dilemma is increased tenfold when the transsexual is in an ultra-macho job like iron-construction work. Not only might rocker's friend get fired, but she might have an incredibly difficult time finding another job.
It's ironic that those louts on the street asked her What the hell are YOU supposed to be? Because that's the very question that led rocker's friend to this point in her life.
posted on October 19, 2001 07:05:53 PM new
In all seriousness, I can't imagine dealing with the WTC situation so closely while at the same time undergoing hormone replacement therapy. And then getting harrassed?
I don't suppose finding employment in a less stressful place than Ground Zero is an option?
posted on October 19, 2001 07:34:40 PM new
In a way, it's a bonus rocker. The idiots of the world are really vocal about how ignorant they are, making them easy to weed out. Sounds like your friend is doing the best she can with what she has. That's all that she can expect from herself right now, but each day does get better. You're an awfully good friend to be with her through this rocker and I wish her some enlightenment (as in light at the end of the tunnel).
posted on October 19, 2001 08:13:49 PM new
What Im wondering is why does it matter for you to describe the personal aspect of this person's sexuality to say she is a hero? The things she saw and did, digging to help or save others makes her a human being. Not a male or female or in between. For that alone, she is to be hailed for doing what she could. So Im at a loss as to why you chose to bring her sexuality into it, as if it matters? Im sure there are many people there, doing and seeing what this person has seen and done. They are all to be commended for those acts of bravery, not for what their sexual preference is while doing it because it doesnt matter, does it? Or was the subject brought up for another reason or to prove some point? She stood waiting for you by a theatre and got insulted by cruel men because of her looks? No different than an obese woman gets with the same remarks by passersby in day to day life (for example). No different than blacks get from racists. Not that its right, but it still happens. So why post what you did, in that vein? Because bigots are everywhere? Thats a given, since they come in all colors, sex, age, race. Because this person cant afford her sex change operation? Not to belittle her financial problems but is that any worse than 2000 children losing their parents in one fell swoop due to a terrorist attack and have no support from their parents anymore and may be considered orphans? If you take out all that you said, and replaced the certain terms/explanations you used with a heterosexual plot, would it be different? Would people not wonder why one chose to "explain" about sexual preferences of the one doing the digging/helping instead of the act itself?
So, whats your point?
posted on October 19, 2001 08:21:02 PM new
spazmodeus, dont presume to know what Im feeling or what my motives are. I asked a question and I did it without insults. If the question is too deep for you, ignore it.
posted on October 19, 2001 08:30:26 PM new
Thank you Helen. I asked, because I want to know what the point is of the thread. No insults intended, just like I didnt insult last night in the other thread. No matter how one tippy toes in this topic, it will get heated because one dares to ask, or someone will accuse the one asking of wanting a fight. I didnt want one last night either. Nor do I now.
Questions asked in non insulting ways, then it progressed into attacks from the same thread starter here. We must remember to tippy toe again when asking. I didnt bring up the sexual preference of this friend of hers. She did. I want to know why and what it has to do with this persons helping at WTC. Helen, I have to disagree with you slightly...this person, and any person, who goes into the WTC or whats left of it, to help, IS a hero to me. Regardless of their sex.
edited to add "last page in thread above".
[ edited by Hepburn on Oct 19, 2001 08:48 PM ]
posted on October 19, 2001 08:49:15 PM new
Tag team now, is it?
You both know rocker already caught a warning addressing this subject today, so you come here out of the blue demanding what's your point, what's sexuality got to do with it?, knowing it's a subject she'll defend fiercely and probably in the process get herself warned again or even suspended ... and just to clinch it, hjw, you throw in that little barb about how calling her friend a hero isn't "appropriate."
posted on October 19, 2001 08:55:09 PM new
Youre very transparent yourself Spazmodeous. I didnt start this thread concerning what gay people/transexuals/tranvestites go thru in todays world. Rocker did. And of course, you jump in PRESUMING to know my motives. Very big of you, and Im so glad you know what Im thinking or feeling. Not. Instead of assuming, why dont you let Rocker answer the question, which is a legitimate one. I had no beef with her. Seems she does with me, but thats her problem, not mine.
posted on October 19, 2001 08:56:34 PM new
I could say the same of you spaz. Tag team. You and rocker. Or you and whomever else comes in here and decides to agree with you. Or whomever else comes in here and agrees with me. Or helen. Or Rocker. Or whatever.
You both know rocker already caught a warning addressing this subject today, so you come here out of the blue demanding what's your point, what's sexuality got to do with it?, knowing it's a subject she'll defend fiercely and probably in the process get herself warned again or even suspended
She is responsible for her own words and how she applies them. If she got a warning, its because of how she delivered. Discussing this could be done without name calling or temper tantrums. What I said in the other thread didnt warrant the barrage of insults and accusations against me. You actually see fault with me? If so, then you are the one that is blinded, Spazmodeous. Out of the Blue? How so? SHE made the topic what it is. If she didnt expect a response and questions, why did she start the thread?
[ edited by Hepburn on Oct 19, 2001 09:01 PM ]
posted on October 19, 2001 09:13:47 PM new
I'm not a tag team...don't even know what it is. I was simply scrolling around and noticed the unfair attack on Hepburn. I am very sensitive lately to unfair attacks because I've experienced quite a few myself.
I think, as Hepburn says that anybody who works in the World Trade Center digging out bodies deserves some special respect. But I also wonder what her sexual preference has to do with that job.
I would call the total job a heroic accomplishment, but the individual job that this person had was not that of a hero in my opinion.
Helen
ed to clarify my thought.
[ edited by Hjw on Oct 19, 2001 09:23 PM ]
posted on October 19, 2001 09:26:40 PM new
Thank you for clarifying that.
I have a different question. What shaped your thinking about homosexuality in general?
Was it parents teaching? School? Media? Peers? Etc.
This question is intended for those who are NOT homosexual, and not for those who are. It is such directed only because I am somewhat knowledgable already about the response from those who are. Now I am curious about those who aren't.
