posted on October 19, 2001 05:29:07 AM new
This is not the time to start throwing stones at our friends. What happenend to respecting our differences?
I enjoy the varied perspectives brought to the table ~ the shared life experiences. I still love that "Straight, not narrow" saying.
I'm sure Spaz or Rocker will correct me if I'm wrong (that's why I dig you guys so much) but...
I see the motives behind the PIC differently.
I was embarrased by the representation of our armed forces.
I thought:
That is who we have flying around defending our Country?
Some of our soldiers are brave,
some of our soldiers are strong,
some of our soldiers are brilliant,
some of our soldiers are morons.
Yes, I have tendencies to be naive. I admit that. When I first read the bomb, I thought it said something about Afgans. After the spelling of hiGHjack, who knows?
Maybe the kid is just illiterate and pizzed.
I don't care about his IQ, I feel for him if he is so narrow minded, but no matter what, I appreciate what he is doing for our country.
God bless America.
Love thy neighbor.
Bomb the b*stards.
posted on October 19, 2001 05:34:29 AM new
plsmith,
Your last post has been deleted. While you left some of the letters out of what can be construed as a racial slur, it was easily identifiable and inappropriate.
posted on October 19, 2001 06:18:54 AM new
As I put on my asbestos underwear.....
How does one assume what the personnel meant when they placed that message on the bomb??? The word that everyone finds so offensive has many ORIGINAL meaning, but generally meant a menial person, a drudge, a person of no consequence. That definition is still on the books. The word was coined for English school boys who were the servants(read, slaves) of others in olden times. Maybe the person who wrote it there was smarter than you think. But I guess the 5th Amendment doesn't apply in this case, where everyone desires to get whipped in a blood frenzy over a perceived wrong regardless of the truth.....
As for me, I still believe in the Constitution and the Bill of rights that states that a person is innocent until proven guilty. A radical idea when Politically Correct speech and behaviour is ordered.
posted on October 19, 2001 07:06:27 AM new
I have to interject my BS here...
Rocky, I understand your point completely, believe me, but I want to try and explain "my" words and actions, which I believe is the same as many, including the ones who wrote that message on the bomb.
I am guilty of the using the word "Fag" on a daily basis myself, and it is mostly used in anger.
Not ONCE however, have I ever used it to imply that one was a homosexual or gay.
I have used it all my life, and I am being very honest with you that growing up, it was used in the same exact way that "jerk", "a-hole", etc. were used.
I know that the homosexual community see's and hear's this word in a different light all too often, but when it's used elsewhere, I can guarantee you that it has nothing to do with homo's.
We are not all "bigots" that use words that we were brought up with, and they are not always meant to mean what "YOU" were brought up with them to mean.
Different places, different times, different meanings...
posted on October 19, 2001 07:07:32 AM newHow does one assume what the personnel meant when they placed that message on the bomb???
Oh come on! The plain fact is that they wished to write something *derogatory* on the bomb to insult the enemy. They chose "fag" not because in 1772 it was coined to mean "to work hard" or used in 1888 to refer to cigarette butts. They meant it in the 20th C. sense that most know it for.
Of course, for all we know there *have* been bombs sent out with the "N" word and the "K" word & all sorts of other slurs--we just haven't seen pictures of them.
Yes, the man who wrote that on the bomb is angry...but what is ironic is that there are probably men working alongside him who are homosexual, but don't dare speak up becasue they'd be kicked out of the military if they did. So they just have to watch that sort of thing and suck it up.
This is one of the bad things about our country. I am proud to be an American, but let's be honest--there really isn't "liberty & justice for all" and might never be as long as this sort of thing is accepted.
posted on October 19, 2001 08:18:52 AM new
You know what my first thought was when I heard of a fuss being made over some graffiti on a bomb? I thought about Woody Allen. I thought that would be a great scene in a Woody Allen movie. "Sailor, we don't want any foul language on that bomb."
posted on October 19, 2001 09:52:25 AM new
Re-reading this whole thread again, I stand by what I said: I dont give a damn what is written on that bomb, and if I am perceived to be something because of that supposed non caring, so be it. I think I will survive without approval of one who does exactly to others what she accuses of being done to her...demands the right to think and do as she sees fit and if one doesnt agree with her way of thinking, they are a bigot.
I called a friend of mine, who is gay, this morning. I said "Did you see the flack over the bomb with the words High Jack This, Fags and if so what do you think?" and I did not elaborate why I was asking it. He replied "Yeah, I heard it. Hope it hits its target". He didnt even comment on what it said. After he replied, I asked again, and stressed the wording to him. Again, he said "So? Who cares what is on that bomb?". What I dont understand is WHY saying QUEER is no different than saying FAG. Its still insulting. But only if the one who is says it is such a word? Isnt that bigoted in itself? No, I guess I will never understand. I do know that I dont judge someone by what they write without knowing what they are truly like in all aspects of their personalities. Like Pocono said, sometimes people say things in anger, but not in the MEANING of the word they said. I have read twice now that I supposedly bashed the gay community here in AW. If Im going to be accused of it, I would like to see the links. Otherwise, its innuendo aimed at me in a negative light for those who dont know me, or know of me. So slap the proof up here if youre going to accuse me of it.
spelling and adding a word or two...NOT removing some.
[ edited by Hepburn on Oct 19, 2001 09:55 AM ]
posted on October 19, 2001 10:06:35 AM new
...and furthermore....
I don't have a problem with anyones sexual identity, religious beliefs or race, what I do have a problem with are the ones who are determined to make everyone see things their way and get nasty when they dont.
posted on October 19, 2001 11:03:10 AM new
Hepburn, some people are offended by the term "fags". Some aren't. But when the term is used on a bomb meant for Afghanistan, the equation is meant to be a negative one. We need to move ahead with our acceptance of others, not take a step back. It was just the wrong word to use imo, when there are hundreds of other expletives that could've been used to convey hatred.
posted on October 19, 2001 11:18:58 AM new
I have been enlightened as to the ways of the world.
No other group of people have suffered such horrors and degradations so there is no possible way I could *ever* understand what it is like to be condemned/abused/whatever for anything that makes me different than anyone else. All prejudice in the world has been focused entirely on the gay community since the dawn of time. No one else in the world has *ever* suffered at the hands of others the way they have and no one ever shall.
Next time, I shall promptly and utterly condemn *anything* that might be construed as an insult/slur/mean comment by certain people in the required kneejerk fashion. I won't stop to think or even form an opinion, I shall just fling outraged accusations hither and yon. If I can be rude and unpleasant in the process, trampling on other people's opinions because I KNOW I'm right and they're wrong without even bothering to read their words, well, hey, that's even better.
posted on October 19, 2001 12:47:05 PM new
The person who wrote "High Jack This Fags" on the bomb was insensitive, irresponsible and probably homophobic. Soldier or no, they were wrong to do it.
But let's put all that aside for a minute. Let's look at what happened not aboard an aircraft carrier thousands of miles away, but right here, among people who spend time together (in the cyber sense) every day.
One of our group, nycrocker, spoke out and said she was offended by the use of the word "fag." She speaks from a lifetime having words like that hurled at her like so many stones. She made it clear that words like that hurt her and the people she loves.
Some of you could have just agreed with her out of respect for her viewpoint, or if you didn't agree, you could have kept your mouths shut. Because in this instance, by disagreeing, by succumbing to whatever compulsive need we all have to get the last word in, you hurt her.
When you justify the use of the word "fag" -- for whatever reason -- you give your approval to people like the one who came into a thread the other night and called Jan a freak. You fuel people like that. Everybody came down hard on that guy -- especially you, Hepburn. Yet here you are in this thread saying what was written on the bomb doesn't matter. You wrote:
Those guys are angry, just like we civilians are. They arent thinking PC...
Well maybe that poster the other night was angry too, Hepburn. Does that make what he/she did okay? You didn't think so a couple days ago, yet in this instance you're justifying it. You're saying it was wrong for a poster on an inconsequential chatboard to use the word "freak," yet it's okay for a soldier -- a warrior and representative of the United States of America -- to smear the word "fag" on a bomb.
I thought when I signed off last night I'd already read the worst of this thread. But then I return today to find that some of you weren't satisfied by disagreeing with Rocker. No, you had to go the extra mile and belittle her for having the balls to stand up strongly for what she believes is right. And for lashing out when she sees people trying to justify behavior that hurts her on the deepest personal level.
posted on October 19, 2001 12:48:17 PM newShadowcat: That's not what NYCrocker was saying at all. But then, she never did get an answer to her question did she? Would it be OK if they wrote "Hijack this, N----- (or K---, or W--, or P-----)?
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 19, 2001 12:52 PM ]
posted on October 19, 2001 01:05:10 PM new
Spaz, if you would bother to re read what I said, I stated EXACTLY what my thoughts were. If you see it differently, thats on you. I hurt HER? Gimme a break. She is the one shoving nasty names in faces, aimed AT ME, because of her own anger at what she has experienced. Instead of seeing or TRYING to understand what I was saying, she chose to jump me, then called me a bigot. To me, it was a disagreement, and I wasnt taking it personal until she went off the deep end. Gee. I hurt her. I dont think so. One has to care about another to HURT, and obviously what she considers a "pal" doesnt fit in that category UNLESS that person bends to their conformity of what THEY think is right and be damned to those who dont agree. I was not insulting her, nor trying to. I said, again, I DONT CARE WHATS ON THAT DAMN BOMB. We all have enough to worry about without nitpicking what some moron wrote on a damn bomb that is fixing to be dumped off a plane onto another country. Its so ludicrous, its pathetic. I refuse to back down and LIE about how I feel, because then I WOULD be a bigot to myself. And that I wont do. If responding again in this thread is construed as "rubbing it in", then I suggest you practice what you preach yourself. I went to bed last night and NOW Im responding becaue I CAN. Im sure Rocker isnt done yet either. Will you come in here and bang around her for "rubbing it in" herself? I bet not.
posted on October 19, 2001 01:05:29 PM new
QUOTATION: When Hitler attacked the Jews ... I was not a Jew, therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then, Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church—and there was nobody left to be concerned.
ATTRIBUTION: Martin Niemller (1892–1984), German Protestant pastor, theologian. attributed in Congressional Record, vol. 114, p. 31636 (Oct. 14, 1968).
Rocker used a quote earlier and said she didn't know who said it. This is the original quote.
posted on October 19, 2001 01:10:08 PM newWhen you justify the use of the word "fag" -- for whatever reason -- you give your approval to people like the one who came into a thread the other night and called Jan a freak. You fuel people like that. Everybody came down hard on that guy -- especially you, Hepburn. Yet here you are in this thread saying what was written on the bomb doesn't matter.
What that poster did the other night was attack Jan and call her a FREAK. Yes, it pissed me off. How the hell do you consider I am fueling anyone or give "approval"? I was pissed because that person had no right to come in that thread and say what they did, since the TOPIC was not about Jan, it was about her seeing WTC and how it affected her. What does that have to do with a WORD on a damn BOMB? There are some priorities really messed up here, and they damn sure arent mine.
