gravid
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posted on October 27, 2001 02:37:16 PM new
I just read in CNN that due to contamination being found in far flung buildings in Washington the authorities have just made the remarkable extrapolation from this data that their MAY BE MORE THAN ONE LETTER!....DUH
Where do they get these deep thinkers that can figure these things out given a few weeks and the help of Mrs. Peabody's fourth grade class? These are the people that are going to make sure we are safe? God help us all the terrorists ARE smarter than our protectors.
[ edited by gravid on Oct 27, 2001 02:50 PM ]
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:07:57 PM new
I'll tell you what I think, Gravid.
We as a Nation do not need any negative talk about Washington, the military, high officials, etc., especially at this time. We are in a fight and they need our support--not ridicule. They are doing everything they can and will get a handle on this.
Get behind them or get out of the way.
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rachelcrisscross
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:22:59 PM new
Uh oh...
Loosey, don't you see that people trying to tell others what to do almost always backfires?
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:29:15 PM new
Not telling him what to do. I'm telling him what I think, in general terms. "Get behind them or get out of the way" is not telling anyone what to do. Again, just an expression.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:37:34 PM new
We as a Nation do not need any negative talk about Washington, the military, high officials, etc., especially at this time... Get behind them or get out of the way.
Last month, there were posts that said essentially the same thing when some posters asked questions regarding where the money being donated to charities was going after the 9-11 disaster.
In today's L.A. Times, it's reported that less than half the $500 million collected by the Red Cross will be going directly to the victims of the attack.
We are in a fight and they need our support--not ridicule.
I would venture to suggest that they will receive the support they require in proportion to the competence they exhibit in the performance of their duties.
edited... ubb
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Oct 27, 2001 04:39 PM ]
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:53:33 PM new
Well, I was trying to say something positive, something encouraging.
Obviously I was wrong. We DO need negative talk and ridicule. We DON'T need to stand behind our leaders.
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gravid
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:55:29 PM new
Sorry but I already see enough others supplying an abundance of mindless support for politicians/businesses/and churches that display no ability to deal with reality.
Most of the world has this "my country right or wrong" attitude and it has not made the world a better place.
I am not in anyones "way" if they want to do their job. I pay my taxes and refrain from actively working against them which is as much as they deserve and maybe a little bit more considering that quite a few people in and out of government would like to turn this country into just another one where to express any dissatisfaction is treason.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:59:03 PM new
Everything is not black and white or a choice between good and evil, with nothing in between. Mindless alliegance is not a good thing, IMO.
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snowyegret
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posted on October 27, 2001 04:59:56 PM new
Loosecannon, when the Constitution is suspended, then we will no longer be in America, but a fascist dream come true. Until then, our Bill of Rights is still in effect.
Gravid, it boggles the mind, doesn't it?
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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Fez
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:01:59 PM new
Loosecannon: Thumbs up for you, buddy.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:11:49 PM new
We as a Nation do not need any negative talk about Washington, the military, high officials, etc., especially at this time.
Suppose, instead of choosing to fight back after the attack on the WTC, the decision had been made to do nothing. Would you have supported that position with the same vigor?
Just trying to understand...
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:20:23 PM new
Suppose, instead of choosing to fight back after the attack on the WTC, the decision had been made to do nothing. Would you have supported that position with the same vigor?
Just trying to understand...
What's to understand? We are in a war and we need to win, regardless if you or I wanted it. That's reality.
Whatever happened to "United We Stand" and all that, of just a few weeks ago.
Oh, I see, that's mindless and unnecessary.
As far as snowyegret's comments, I was only voicing my opinion, not trying to deny anyone of their Bill Of Rights.
Don't see what's so "mind boggling" about that.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 27, 2001 05:23 PM ]
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 27, 2001 05:25 PM ]
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Muriel
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:25:15 PM new
Loose: From what I've seen here in the last few days, patriotism died on the good ship Round Table. 
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:25:52 PM new
What's to understand. We are in a war and we need to win.
You didn't answer my question. Suppose the decision was made that we were not in a war, and that we would not retaliate- would you insist that everybody stand behind that decision?
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:32:37 PM new
It's a moot question, but I'll answer it anyway. If our country chose to do nothing after 9-11 I would have felt that was a mistake and would not have supported it.
Now that we are in a war, I'll do what I can to support, and I don't care who doesn't like it.
Does that answer your question thoroughly enough, mrpotatoheadd?
The terrorists and their supporters did NOT give us a choice.
And who's "insisting" anyway? Not me. It was a "suggestion".
Take it or leave it.
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 27, 2001 05:41 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:40:27 PM new
Actually I feel very powerless. I never made it a priority to amass wealth early in life. I was always happy with enough to live a comfortable middle class life. If you do not have a huge amount of money it is impossible to effect the political system at all unless you choose a very radical life style like these terrorists have and simply devote your life to it. If you do not do one or the other you have no effective influence on what happens. Your one vote is truely meaningless because the choice you have is between two candidates who have been picked and groomed by those rich or radical people who do have the power to shape political parties and systems that have their full purposes hidden from public scrutiny. The public statements of these people are useless in predicting what they will do in office. You can "read their lips" all you wnat. The truth is not in them at all. The people who believe in them and think they will be served by supporting them may be appeased with crumbs from the favor of the elite if they are in the right group - but only if does not interfer with the needs of the rich and powerful.
It served such people for years for there to be a large middle class in this country that provided a market and large reserve of skilled labor. But now it looks like it is in their interest to make this country like most of the others in the world where there are only the rich and the poor with very few in-between. The production of wealth is changing with changing technology.
Most of the work force is turning into an actual liability instead of a resource.
It won't be fun to be one of the poor.
You will find most of the poor are not real supporters of the political systems - they just know the futility of fighting them.
[ edited by gravid on Oct 27, 2001 05:46 PM ]
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Femme
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:43:18 PM new
...From what I've seen here in the last few days, patriotism died on the good ship Round Table
That's a pretty general statement, Muriel.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:43:23 PM new
If our country chose to do nothing after 9-11 I would have felt that was a mistake and would not have supported it.
Does that answer your question thoroughly enough, mrpotatoheadd?
Yes, it does.
If the government does something you agree with, everybody should support that decision.
If the government does something you disagree with, you feel it is appropriate to fail to support them.
In other words, you are reserving for yourself the right to disagree with decisions you don't like, while denying that option for others.
Doesn't quite seem fair, but that's just me...
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snowyegret
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:44:21 PM new
Muriel, your definition of patriotism seems to be a narrow one. I see many American patriots here.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:45:04 PM new
I'd rather be poor in the USA than rich in Afghanistan.
*in response to gravid's last post
[ edited by loosecannon on Oct 27, 2001 05:56 PM ]
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rachelcrisscross
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:46:53 PM new
If we work to become independent of multi-rich corporations for goods and services, it will be much harder for them to maintain control and they will also lose money...
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:50:33 PM new
In other words, you are reserving for yourself the right to disagree with decisions you don't like, while denying that option for others.
I did no such thing. I was voicing an opinion.
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snowyegret
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:52:50 PM new
Loosecannon, I was addressing the boggles the mind comment to this:
I just read in CNN that due to contamination being found in far flung buildings in Washington the authorities have just made the remarkable extrapolation from this data that their MAY BE MORE THAN ONE LETTER!....DUH
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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gravid
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:53:20 PM new
rachelcrisscross - That is something worth trying to do. It is difficult for example in the US not to be very tied to the oil companies for transportation but it is always worthwhile to minimize that tie. It is also well to put your investment money where it can serve your independence as well as your earnings.
[ edited by gravid on Oct 27, 2001 05:55 PM ]
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rachelcrisscross
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posted on October 27, 2001 05:58:37 PM new
gravid... 
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gravid
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posted on October 27, 2001 06:01:41 PM new
Snowy - I can only hope that it is disinformation intended to make the terrorists think they are still far from knowing who they are and how they operate.
As in - "Wow they still haven't found all those other ones we mailed?"
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rancher24
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posted on October 27, 2001 06:04:52 PM new
I understand the need to stand behind the government with regard to their actions in Afghanistan or wherever the war on terrorism leads them. Not only for the sake of unity, but more importantly for the spirit of those brave men & woman who left their families & their security to risk their lives so that we may be free.
That said, I do believe that the freedom they are fighting for includes the freedom to speak when we feel that the government is in error. Their shortsightedness with regard to the DC postal workers cost 2 people their lives. The same visual impairment is forcing postal workers in a contaminated building in NY to continue to report to work, regardless of the risk. I firmly believe that there ARE people within our government who have the vision to protect us, but are held back by those who are more concerned with political agendas.
If we sit silent when we disagree our country will have been damaged more than the attacks of 9-11.
Gravid, I agree that "money talks" if you will, but I also believe that the "little people" (of which I am one!) when grouped together with a common passion CAN make a difference. I have been involved in several causes in my community where it was the people vs local government & big business. The will of the people actually won!
~ Rancher
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Microbes
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posted on October 27, 2001 06:17:25 PM new
Their shortsightedness with regard to the DC postal workers cost 2 people their lives. The same visual impairment is forcing postal workers in a contaminated building in NY to continue to report to work, regardless of the risk.
I have 2 thoughts on this:
1. You are right, and the postal workers need to be protected by all means. This includes masks, gloves, full body Tyvek suits, etc, for workers in infected post offices. The Generals in the Pentagon have set up "Chemical Detection" units all around the Pentagon. If it's good enough for the Generals, it's good enough for the postal workers. The military is supposed to protect civilians. It's their job.
2. Once the "protection" is in place, the postal service needs to live up to it's "Neither Rain nor Sleet...." creedo.
[ edited by Microbes on Oct 27, 2001 06:28 PM ]
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on October 27, 2001 06:35:58 PM new
If we sit silent when we disagree our country will have been damaged more than the attacks of 9-11.
I believe you're not supposed to "sit silent". Rather, you should "get out of the way". 
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loosecannon
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posted on October 27, 2001 06:38:55 PM new
mrpotatoheadd
Do you support this country and it's war effort? Or are you against it for some reason?
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