nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 07:50:49 PM new
I know this is going to sound sexist, but, so be it, it's also TRUE. I have to know the answer to this cos it's driving me NUTS. I take the NYC subway system every day, and every day without fail I witness women sitting on the train, legs together, trying to help make room for more people to sit down. Men on the other hand, sit with their legs COMPLETELY apart taking up TONS of space. (I am not making this up, I observe this every day, so much so, that I am about to video tape it.) My question is this: Is it that men feel automatically "entitled" to more space in the world? Or is it some kind of message like "My **** is so big I have to sit with my legs like this." I'm serious, what's the deal with this??
 Rocker 
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stusi
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posted on October 29, 2001 07:58:11 PM new
rocker- if there was no stigma attached to women(even with pants on)sitting with their legs apart, more of them would do so. But never as many as men, because it is probably as often an unintentional as intentional territorial thing for men to spread out.
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:05:21 PM new
Okay.... so even if it is un-intentional (I do realize men are conditioned to put themselves first and women are conditioned to put other people's needs first) (which sucks), don't the men on the train see the other people (men and women alike) who need seats and realize at any point "oh if I moved my legs in, someone else could sit down" - or do they realize it and just not care? It is really extremely selfish.
Rocker
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:07:00 PM new
I was raised that "proper" ladies NEVER sat with their legs apart. It didn't matter if said PL was wearing a dress or pants, she kept those legs glued together in some sort of auto-chastity belt pose or she was considered "easy".
(According to my mother, there were a lot of rules a proper lady followed to be considered proper: She kept her legs together at all costs  , wore a slip under her dress even if the temperature was a kazillion degrees, and never wore red fingernail polish or more than one ring-preferably wedding-related rings. To my mother's neverending horror, I was a dismal failure at being a proper lady )
As for the men, I wonder if part of it has to do with the sense of guarding their turf, no matter how small or fleeting. They sprawl across the seat to let any potential interlopers know that this seat is THEIR seat and there WILL be trouble if anyone tries to muscle in on the seat.
The b*** thing might be relevant, too. You wanna bet they deny it, though?
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stusi
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:08:31 PM new
selfish it is. But group dynamics are interesting- what if the train was filled only with men.. some would push their way into a seat. and what if it was filled only with women..would not some women do the same?
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:11:15 PM new
Shadowcat - To my mother's neverending horror, I was a dismal failure at being a proper lady
LOL!!! Me tew! And damn proud of it. High five! 
I was referring to the d*** thing, but is the b*** thing um - in the same um BALL PARK?
Heehee
Rocker
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:13:22 PM new
Yeppers.
Someone once referred to those anatomical parts as "sausage and hard boiled eggs" (I've known males where that would be an extremely generous description).
Edited: High five backatcha!
[ edited by Shadowcat on Oct 29, 2001 08:14 PM ]
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Pocono
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:16:16 PM new
"My **** is so big I have to sit with my legs like this."
That's my answer anyways
But I DO get up for the ladies.. (if ya know what I mean)
.
[ edited by Pocono on Oct 29, 2001 08:17 PM ]
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:21:08 PM new
(but I DO get up for the ladies)
Now that's just disgusting.
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:22:15 PM new
Stusi - I don't know, I am not so into hypothetical questions, the IFs and stuff. I am more concerned with what IS, not guessing at what WOULD be, because that is irrelevant to me. I observe what IS, then I try to figure out WHY it is, and then I try to hopefully help change what IS into what SHOULD BE. Just doing my part as an activist in this world. Trying to make changes in the world, a day at a time, a person at a time, whatever. All that "turf" and "territorial" stuff, ugh. The bottom line here is, the majority of women DO make room for other people, and it's not just the "sitting properly" thing, you can also observe their concious effort to move over or sit in closer as they are aware of other people and generally (not always) men are not. It's conditioning. My new neice will be born any day! I can't wait!!! Thank god there are a few feminists in the family to teach her some self-esteem which I wish someone taught me when I was little.
Rocker
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:23:17 PM new
I just realized...Ball Park hot dogs.
*snicker*
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:24:15 PM new
So jannie, how do you sit on the subway?
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:25:28 PM new
I assume on her butt.
Do you have a different way of sitting?
(Sorry, I'm just a tad giddy tonight)
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:25:29 PM new
Pokey, stay offa my train
Rocker
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:27:15 PM new
Spaz - Oh I sit with my hands over my mouth so I don't GO OFF LIKE A LUNATIC ON THE TRAIN!!!!!!! 
Rocker
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breinhold
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:27:23 PM new
I have a wife daughter and mother so I feel I qualify as a feminist. its not a size thing (most guys would love you to think that) it is really nothing more than men have been taught that sitting with their legs together or crossed is for sissy's and makes them look feminine. I hate seeing other guys all sprawled out like that more than you do and I am a man. and it is rude to take up space like that. (and always keep in mind out of fairness, every rude man you ever meet had a mother)
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autarchic
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:29:43 PM new
So long as they don't sit that way in loose trunks by the pool I can deal.
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:30:48 PM new
On a serious note, I see a lot of generalizing going on in this thread -- you know, attributing certain behaviors to all members of a given group. And frankly I'm surprised.
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autarchic
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:32:29 PM new
You said MEMBERs
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breinhold
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:32:48 PM new
spaz you have been cracking me up lately!
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:35:47 PM new
Yeah, we shouldn't generalize about guys in loose trunks by the pool...
Can we generalize about guys in Speedos?
Since I am such a dismal failure at being a proper lady, I spread my stuff all over the seat whenever I'm on public transport.
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:38:17 PM new
Brein - You do sound like a feminist to me and if you say you are, I believe you. However, IMHO I don't think it's because you have a wife, daughter and mother. (I wish that was all it took to "qualify" as a feminist. As you said, there are some RUDE men out there - and women - and they all have Moms. Rapists have Moms.) I think "feminism" is someone who really truly believes in equality, and hopefully believes in teaching girls to be a little more like what we've taught boys to be... AS WELL AS teaching boys to be a little more like what we've taught girls to be. For instance, a sexist world isn't bad ONLY for women... I mean, I think it sucks for boys to be brought up "not to cry" and "not to have feelings" and to "be tough", for god's sake. What a terrible thing to teach someone. I, on the other hand, was taught that because I was a girl, I was absolutely second rate, what I needed didn't count, that men were on a pedestal, and my Mom wanted me to be a "secretary" until a "man came along to take care of me". Imagine her surprise when.... well, you know the rest.
Spaz - did you used to sit on the train one way and now you sit another way???? Hmmmm.....
Rocker
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nycrocker
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:42:56 PM new
Bad Spaz!!! :::slapping your hand:::
You did not read carefully enough! Notice the amount of care I took in writing things like "not always" and "the majority of" precisely because I did NOT want to include ALL people since you CAN NOT generalize ALL people!!! (Unless you are Hep and saw a few bad gay people at a parade once. Of course it means we ALL get naked and have sex in the parade. UGH. Puleeease.)
Rocker
[ edited by nycrocker on Oct 29, 2001 08:43 PM ]
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:46:51 PM new
I generally sit with my legs together. Make what you will of that. Maybe I'm just considerate?
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autarchic
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:47:35 PM new
Am I the only one intriqued by the idea of having sex at a parade?
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:48:35 PM new
Whew
I had this image of Spaz hanging by his knees, bat-like, from the ceiling. So glad to know I was wrong.
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spazmodeus
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:49:37 PM new
Bad jannie. Your first two posts say nothing about majorities. They are flat-out "men do this" and "women do that" statements. Tsk tsk. LOL.
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icantfindmypants
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:50:17 PM new
maybe it's because you have a penis
in a jar on your desk
ha! remember that one?
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:50:20 PM new
Autarchic: Could bring a new meaning to "I Love a Parade", that's for sure.
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breinhold
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posted on October 29, 2001 08:51:02 PM new
i cross mine. if i sit with both feet on the floor i feel like all i can say is "huh"
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