posted on October 31, 2001 07:49:04 AM newThe word is rejected by those who are practicing it!
I think many people have a natural aversion to labels, possibly because there are stereotypes associated with them. And stereotypes are rarely attractive.
I also believe labels are restrictive. There are women who strongly support equality, yet also enjoy the privilege of men holding doors for them, paying for dates, etc. Does that make them hypocrites? I don't know. But the term "feminist" seems to frown on such divided loyalties. Nobody is one thing or another, yet labels seem to demand that they be.
posted on October 31, 2001 07:58:54 AM new
I agree with Spaz about the issue of words used as *labels*. Maybe the next phase beyond the word "feminist" is not to have a label at all.
posted on October 31, 2001 08:33:26 AM new
Bitty LOL!! Was I being a Drama Queen?? Really??? Hmmmm I am gonna have to think that over, cos if so, that could be VERY bad for my Butch image.
:::Making adjustments to my pants crotch like Gravid::::
posted on October 31, 2001 10:44:15 AM new
{{{Rocker}}}
I think the reason I am so intrigued by this thread is because I know how much you detest labels.
Do you really consider yourself a feminist or would humanist be more accurate?
I'm not sure what I am...
I can't cook and I have two brown thumbs.
posted on October 31, 2001 11:51:23 AM newI am TRULY baffled over WHY people are rejecting the WORD "Feminist" while they believe in the ACTIONS.
It's really not so hard to understand. Feminists claim to be against sexism (so am I), but, in my experience, they are the most sexist people I've ever met. They tend to divide instead of unite people. They seem angry and bitter. Anyone who leans towards traditional values is the enemy, although they claim to be for diversity. In my oppinion, feminists give feminism a bad name....
I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 31, 2001 11:54 AM ]
posted on October 31, 2001 12:52:17 PM new
I'm just now reading this thread, sorry I'm so slow. However, the subject interested me. I mean the subject of men sitting with their legs open.
Several years ago, my husband and I went to a popular movie. We ended up sitting towards the front and on the side. While my husband likes to sit on the aisle seat, there wasn't one available, so we had to sit in seats three and four, with me closest to the wall. AFter the movie started, a man and woman came in and sat next to us in seats five and six. Seat six was closest to the wall, and that's where the woman sat. The man sat next to me. It was a hot summer day and almost everyone in the theater was wearing shorts.
Almost immediately Mr.Big N_ts spread his legs and his bare, hairy leg touched my leg. To touch my leg, his leg had to cross under the arm rest and he was invading my personal space. I crossed my legs towards my husband to avoid being touched by this guy and he just kept spreading out. I ended up practically sitting in my husband's lap to avoid this guy (my husband thought I was cuddling). The movie was ruined for me, and to this day, I wish I had done something. Changed seats with my husband, called an usher, just something.
posted on October 31, 2001 01:06:08 PM new
Valleygirl
You should have traded seats. I can almost guarantee that Mr.Big N_ts would have kept his hairy legs to himself if your husband was in that seat. Sounds to me like he was attempting to cop a feel and was hoping you wouldn't notice what he was doing.
posted on October 31, 2001 01:30:22 PM new
Hi Spaz, no, not avoiding the label issue or what outoftheblue just said either. Sometimes I just really need a rest from the fight cos it makes me tired or sad or disgusted sometimes. Then I go do something fun in real life to re-charge myself. Ya know, like hang out with my FEMINIST friends who "get it" and we don't argue or struggle over it. When I have the energy and time, I come back here and continue. It takes a lotta energy to do these posts ya know, cos they are usually long answers and hopefully well thought out first. But I do like to do this, I love a good heated debate and I like to see what makes people tick. I also like finding like-minded people here.
Plus there were lotsa music work phone calls to deal with today and that stuff takes up most of my time.
And there was a "woman" situation I had to deal with, which doesn't really take up much of my time at all. LOL!!
That's all.
Rocker
[ edited by nycrocker on Oct 31, 2001 01:32 PM ]
posted on October 31, 2001 02:18:21 PM new
:::Taking a big breath:::
Okay let's see if I have the energy for this now.
{{{{{Zoomin}}}}} Hi sweetie
You and Spaz make very good points about labels. Maybe this will answer outoftheblue at the same time. I actually don't detest labels, I have mixed feelings about them. I would prefer we didn't need them, but at times they ARE useful. There are some people in the world who make laws. Most of (I said MOST of) these people are men. They have a label: "Politicians". There are also people in the world who treat women as if they are "less than". Am I accusing anyone on this thread of doing that? NO. I am saying there ARE people in the world who do that. They also have a label but I would get moderated for what I call them. So... when you have a group of people labeled "WOMEN" or "FEMALES"(**NOTE** I DID NOT ask for that label, it was tacked onto me from the day I was born), and you have politicians and this other X group of idiots treating women in an inferior way, SOME of the women are going to rebel against that. In order for these women to band together to fight the discrimination, how do you find each other? Well how do you know which public bathroom to go into? It's labeled. (I pick different ones on different days. I'm still looking for one labeled "Third-Gendered".) How do you know where to find like-minded people? Are you a YANKEES fan or a METS fan? Since I am not allowed to be married legally in this country, I band together with Lesbian & Gay rights groups sometimes to try to have bills passed, etc. (I personally didn't pick the word Lesbian or Gay, by the way. I would've been much more creative.) BUT I cannot fight the discrimination if I don't know where the others are or what we are called. I can't call Information and say "Hello do you know where I can find that group of people who shall not be named?" No. So I say "Can you please tell me where the Gay and Lesbian Task Force is located?" We need labels to identify what it is we are looking for, where we need to go, who thinks like we do and is looking for the same thing we are, etc. Why does the sign over Aisle Nine in the supermarket say CAT FOOD? Cos that is where you will find cat food. Ferret owners need not go there. Now I don't know HOW the label "Feminist" turned into Ferret food somewhere along the line, or how it turned into "man-hating bitter B*@CH". Femme ALREADY gave everyone the "official" description which sounds right on to me. outoftheblue says he finds "feminists" to be bitter and angry people, which is another generalization by the way, and I can't speak for all Feminists but I can speak for me. Am I ANGRY? Yes - VERY. I don't see the need to go into WHY I am angry one more time, cos I have already posted countless examples of this over and over on this thread, on how I HAVE been treated differently and in an inferior way JUST because I was labeled FEMALE, and it is not my fault if these examples I posted are not being heard. Am I bitter? No, I am generally a very happy person who has the ability to get angry and take actions about it.
If this doesn't answer any questions, sorry, I don't know how much more clear I can be.
posted on October 31, 2001 02:56:30 PM new
I can derail my own thread for a minute, right? Just had to tell ya I am drinking hot tea out of my favorite mug. It has an Edward Gorey (my favorite artist) drawing on it of a cat laying on a stack of books, and it says books. cats. life is good.
Just hadda share a little Rocker trivia with ya. God I love my cats so much. And my books.
(Especially my GLORIA STEINEM books) heehee
Rocker
(spelling)
[ edited by nycrocker on Oct 31, 2001 02:57 PM ]
posted on October 31, 2001 03:08:13 PM new
rachel - Hmmmmm not sure if this is supposed to be...um...complimentary or not... (the "very long time ago" thing kinda puts a twist on it, huh?)
posted on October 31, 2001 03:08:33 PM new
Once I told a goth girl she looked like a Gorey cartoon come to life and she said it was the sweetest thing anyone ever said to her.
Rocker 
