posted on February 8, 2002 11:28:11 PM new
Having just moved from the Salt Lake City area, I can say we breathed a sigh of relief when it was over, with no catastrophe occurring.
I thought the most moving parts were (1) when they brought the tattered flag in, (2) Sting and Yo-Yo Ma performing together, (3) when the Native American chiefs spoke to the athletes.
It seemed long to me; did others feel that way too? And to end with Lee Ann Rimes seemed very anti-climactic, not to mention the old hockey team lighting the torch. My husband says I'm just not into sports enough to understand the 1980 hockey guys' big win and how significant it still is. . . .
I don't like George Bush (that's no secret), but I did like his sitting with the athletes instead of in a big box high in the sky.
posted on February 9, 2002 09:00:48 AM new
I thought it was only me wondering if it seemed too long. I took a special interest in it because my friends uncle, Kenny Ortega, is the choreographer and co-producer of the opening and closing ceremonies.
It was nice to see American Indians acknowledged. I really liked the animal puppets, very pretty.
I only watch a few events in the Winter Olympics, not like the Summer Olympics, where I watch all of them.
posted on February 9, 2002 11:55:50 AM new
An outrageous amount of money was spent to produce this extravaganza in order to promote political agendas. I watched it for a few boring minutes and then, I turned it off.
About Bush "sitting with the athletes"... He sat there because he was more visible in that spot than in a box, "high in the sky".
posted on February 9, 2002 12:50:24 PM new
I watched most of the opening ceremonies and enjoyed them. They were on past my bed time so I was dozing before they were over.
I liked the Native American portion with representation from the five tribes. Had to wonder if 150 years ago we were looking at them of the terrorists of the day. Anyway, I liked their dress and wondered what the various colors and designs stood for.
I loved looking at the faces of the athletes and the performers. Their faces glowed with excitement and cold while their eyes danced. I am happy for them all that they got this short time to escape from the everyday reality into a dream.
The outfits/costumes of the various nations were neat and varied.
It was a bit dragged out.
Overall I would give it a B+
Please call me Charlotte so I don't have ta change my ID.
posted on February 9, 2002 01:52:56 PM new
-- After the patriotic extravaganzas of the Rose Bowl Parade and the Super Bowl it
came as no shock that the opening ceremonies for the Winter Olympics at Salt Lake
City was yet one Bush-pumping spectacle. It seemed to have been put together by a
committee consisting of the CEOs of several major corporations, the folks from the
Heritage "'Lets Give America back to Americans" Foundation, George W. Bush and
the Bubble Bum Card think tank, and Charlotte Beers (Bush's privately-owned
Madison Avenue PR lady), with helpful tips gleaned from the Hitler's planning notes
for the 1936 Summer Olympics in Munich.
---- On a hopeful note, I think the public has reached saturation on this routine. By
the day of the opening ceremonies, so many tickets were still unsold that they were
handing them out at half-price. The lack of interest was not due to security concerns
-- the heavily guarded stadium was probably safer than Bush's bedroom and, in any
case, security didn't deter anyone from the Super Bowl. Nope -- folks just knew what
they were in for at Salt Lake City -- yet another self-serving display by the
"Campaign to Reelect George Bush" when all they really wanted to see was a real
opening ceremony for a real sports event.
---- The very location of the Winter Olympics this year, of course, screams "Bush
Administration." Salt Lake City was chosen as a payoff for the orgy of kickbacks,
favors and collusions that became the center of a huge scandal -- you might call it the
Enron collapse of the Olympic Committee. In addition, Utah is one of the whitest,
bible-thumpin'-est states in the U.S.: 89% of the state is white, while more than half
of all lands are owned by the Mormon Church. In addition, John Ashcroft's
right-hand man, assistant attorney General J. S. Bybee is a Mormon. Other Bush
administration Mormons include deputy White House Counsel Tim Flanagan,
Director of the Bureau of Land Management Kathleen Burton Clarke, and Assistant
Administrator to the EPA Jeffrey Holmstead.
---- For days before the event, the Bush PR folks (which of course includes everyone
in the mainstream media) has been trying to sell a comparison between Bush and
FDR. (An earlier attempt to claim Bush's choking on a pretzel made him somehow
like Abraham Lincoln failed miserably.) "FDR was the last president to preside over
the Winter Games, back in 1932," gushed Bob "I'm a Sorry Excuse for a
Commentator" Costas. Of course Costas made no mention of the much closer parallel
between Bush and Hitler at Munich in 1936 -- a parallel that grew closer and more
disturbing as the evening wore on.
---- The Friday night show was broken up by constant -- and long - commercials
from a list of megacorporations, including GE, AT&T, Coca Cola, VISA, Bank of
America, Ford, McDonalds, Johnson and Johnson, Xerox, Budweiser, Pfizer, and the
movie industry. In the shamelessly corporate style of this administration, the
commercials bled over into the show to wring the most sales value possible from the
event (as you will later see below).
---- Here's a blow by blow run down of the events:
---- The show was opened by Don Rodriquez, the NYC policeman who, since 9/11,
has turned being a cop during WTC and singing patriotic songs into a lucrative
business. Rodriquez, appropriately attired for the new police state in full uniform,
sang (could you possibly have guess it?) "God Bless America." In the background
was a gigantic screen splashed with the same version of the American flag that is
splashed across the post-9/11 edition of the VISA credit card (which debuted with a
promo that read: "This is your land…and this is your card!".
---- Soon after, Costas interviewed Bush briefly, feeding him scripted lines : (to
paraphrase) "Being president is such a very stressful job…how very heroic of you to
come here and be with all us mortals." In fact, in his efforts to toady up, Costas
flubbed his lines at one point, making the scripted nature of the interchange painfully
obvious.
---- Next we were treated to R. Kelly dressed in a garish designer satin American flag
costume singing "I (as in the U.S.A) am the World's Greatest" as images of U.S. --
and only U.S. -- athletes were flashed across the big screen. Up to this point, we have
seen no evidence that this is an International event, and not just America admiring its
own navel.
---- Next up, the flags of past Olympic sites were carried through. I could swear that
the guys from NBC cranked the sound up every time a U.S. site came through,
because that was the only time you could hear any cheering or clapping. After this, a
military band dressed up in fancy uniforms with epaulettes, looking as if they had
been imported from some feudal royal palace (complete with little coat-of-arms
banners hanging from their trumpets) played a fanfare.
---- Next up, yet more political mileage was gotten from 9/11 as the poor, battered
flag found in the rubble of the WTC was dragged in, spot lights on it as if it were a
circus performer on the way to the ring. I found myself feeling pissed, not choked up.
It was as if they were dragging the body of a fallen war hero around, city to city, like
a Barnum and Bailey exhibit, refusing to let it rest in dignity and peace as long as they
thought someone would ante up with the admission price.
---- And, NBC made sure to hit the viewer over the head with the "significance". The
direction notes ran, no doubt, something like this: CLOSE UP ON FLAG….CUT TO
FACES OF OUR GUYS IN KHANDAHAR, CLUSTERED AROUND TV….CUT
TO CLOSEUP OF WEEPING FACES IN SALT LAKE AUDIENCE…CUT TO
MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR SINGING STAR SPANGLED BANNER…."
---- The U.S. flag was then raised over the stadium…in the dark, at an entertainment
event. If any of the organizers had been truly interested in showing respect for our
flag, they would have observed REAL flag etiquette and protocol. There would have
been no garish flag outfit permitted on R. Kelly. No parading of the WTC flag. No
raising of the flag AFTER DARK (against all protocol). But real respect for our flag
had nothing to do with this corpolitical spectacle.
---- Two of the perpetrators of this circus (officially known as "Olympic organizers"
and Bush took center stage briefly, all dressed in long black, coats that looked
ominously like formal SS officer attire.. As Bush marched off to his box seat
afterward, I was stunned to see him give the Nazi "Heil!" salute to the audience
(however unconscious on his part it may have been).
---- Next, we had the main show, called "Light the Fire within." This production, we
are told, was modified since 9/11 to reflect the circumstance better (ie, made more
politically advantageous). The costumes and choreography were splendid, but I have
the sneaking feeling that the central character was one of the "revisions." Here we
have an adolescent boy as "The Child of Light" (get it? The opposite of "Evildoers"
wandering about with a lantern, pummeled by a "rising storm." He is guided back to
the right track by an Aryan-looking skater with flaxen hair. The child of light, Costas
tells us, is a hockey player and a straight A student -- the All American non-sissy
boy-team player-overachiever in other words.
---- But, what can you expect? The entertainment was all produced by a pal of
George Bush, Sr, who also produced Papa Bush's inaugural gala.
---- When the parade of nations came through, I could have hid under the couch from
shame at Costas obnoxious commentary, which was broadcast round the world. This
poster boy for Jingoism kept up a steady stream of put-downs of the other
nations…Here are some samples:
---- CHILE: "This nation has never won a single medal in the winter Olympics and
isn't expected to win this time."
---- BRAZIL: (referring to the sledders who call themselves jokingly "The Frozen
Banana". "Their efforts here aren't likely to be "fruitful ... tsk tsk!."
---- CZECH REPUBLIC: "There's a great reception for the Czechs because they are
carrying U.S. flags." (as if that is the only thing worth cheering for).
---- FINLAND: Costas immediately points out the country's past doping scandal.
---- GERMANY: "Germans excel at sports that rely on equipment." (but none
requiring real skill, eh?)
---- ICELAND: "You'd think with a name like Iceland they'd be good at winter
sports!"
---- HUNGARY: "So many nations come here without any hope of winning."
---- INDIA: Costas immediately refers to their political strife over Kashmir and their
nuclear buildup- no reference to the athletes at all.
---- IRAN: Costas: "Here is part of what Bush describes as "The Axis of Evil." (CUT
TO: BUSH IN BOX, GLOWERING INDIGNANTLY.)
---- I kid you not … it was that obviously planned. This was the only time, save one
brief scan much earlier in the parade that the camera went to Bush. As the Iranians
marched through, he was shown putting on a scowly, squirmy show that reminded
me a spoiled, nasty-natured 10-year old. Actually, it also reminded me of the 1936
Olympics when Jesse Owens came onto the field -- Hitler was shown with the same
infantile scowl. The point of course, is that Bush is trying to gear up American fervor
against Iran so that we can go bomb the hell out of them and keep the war going up
through election 2004.
---- I felt acutely for the poor Iranian athletes…I would guess their chances now of
being treated with the respect and kindness all the athletes here deserve are about nil.
---- MONGOLIA: Costas describes the traditional costume worn by the Mongols as
"overdressed."
---- After Costas got to about the "Rs", he seemed to lose interest altogether and trail
off -- at least till the Americans filed in.
---- When the U.S. came in, I was appalled to see that they were dressed in what
looked like WW II German sailor uniforms, topped by Amy-style berets! As soon as
the U.S. came through, the band switched to playing military march music,
reminiscent of the Hitler's constant "sound track" of martial music.
---- NOTE: Credit must be given to Katie Couric, who, earlier in the evening looked
strained and unhappy (one hopes it was a crisis of conscience). Throughout Costas
bash-fest, she persistently tried to interject more positive comments.
---- After this depressing parade came the only uplifting part of the whole
extravaganza. Representatives of the five Native American Tribes of Utah came out
and performed traditional dancing and drumming. In addition, the five chiefs -- the
sort of men one WISHES were in the White House -- gave a blessing to the athletes.
Though I enjoyed this part, it was still a sad and a little eerie to see the proud,
wisdom-etched faces of the chiefs against a prime time back drop of sports fans and
glitz.
---- But all too soon, the natives were whisked off and replaced by the next big
production number: the settling of the West - according to a 1950s textbook version,
anyway. In this segment, dozens of scrubbed, perky-looking "settlers" pour out into
the arena looking as if they had just been trucked in from the set of "Wagon Train.
First, we are shown a dream like sequence as the settlers sleep, in which the beasts of
the West cavort -- absolutely marvelous huge puppet-like creations depicting moose,
antelope, grizzly bears, cougars, mustangs, rabbits, and a rattlesnake. Of course, we
were expected to suspend any knowledge of the fact that most of these species were
slaughtered mercilessly by the "God-fearing settlers." In fact, when the mighty bison
came on stage, I wondered if the scores of little shadow bison shown cavorting within
the translucent body of the puppet were supposed to represent the ghosts of the 100
million bison slaughtered by settlers within the first decades of the west's settlement.
---- Then morning comes and the happy settlers jump up and have a hoe-down,
complete with a performance by the Dixie Chicks. The stage was filled with
square-dancing, frolicking settlers - with the Chinese, black, and Hispanic settlers
joining hands with the white folks (pure fantasy, of course -- the old West, including
Utah, rivaled the South in its bigotry).
---- This simpleminded show was climaxed by the appearance, at opposite sides of
the stadium of puppet "trains," coming toward each other. This, of course,
represented the Pacific and eastern rail lines, which came together in the late 1800s
with the driving of the golden spike at a site in Utah. As the trains came toward each
other, we heard the sprightly tune "She'll be Comin' Round the Mountain!" But all I
could think of was how that famous feat -- the building of the rail line in record time
-- had been achieved by exploiting Irish, black and Chinese workers, who were used
up and thrown away like cannon fodder. They died by the hundreds in accidents,
from overwork, and disease, were often never paid, or were defrauded by "nice white
settlers", or subjected to bigoted persecution by their white overseers, and then
forgotten (at least in the sanitized history books). Yep, this display was pure Bush,
pure rightwingnut all the way.
---- The spectacle was appropriately followed by a commercial that touted the
re-release of that Reagan-era feel-good classic, "ET." Of course, the alert viewer soon
noted that this commercial had been strategically placed in the break directly before
the Olympic flag was carried into the arena. Guess who one of the flag bearers was?
Stephen Spielberg, who was highlighted by two close-ups. What the TV ad folks call
a "strategic tie in."
---- Next, as we see the Olympic torch relayed from runner to runner (Dorothy
Hamill, Dick Button, Bonny Blair, et al.), the cameras cut to Bush, down cozied up
to the all-white section of the U.S. team. (Hitler used to do the same thing --
hobnobbing informally with the athletes for the photographers to show his "common
touch". Bush and the NBC directors added a nice staged bit of their own. The
cameras suddenly panned to the group JUST as a young woman athlete is on the
phone with her parents -- so we are told by Costas, who, AMAZINGLY seems to
know, halfway across the stadium and with bands and cheering drowning the sound
out, who she is talking to (no script here, of course!). On cue (just as camera lights on
her) she hands the phone to Bush to say hi to her parents (again Costas just "knows"
that's who is on the line). We're just all choked up by what a man of the people Bush
is! (at least that was Charlotte Beers' plan for this "spontaneous" episode). I was
choked up alright -- but not on tears.
---- The grand finale was a combination of major let down and pure Bush. After
weeks of secrecy, the final torch bearer (the lighter of the big flame) was revealed and
guess who it was? I was hoping for a woman -- in fact my vote would have gone to
the Williams twins, who are not only great athletes, but breakers of racial barriers (
black tennis players were unheard of just a few decades back).. . But no, it turned out
to be the entire hockey team "TEAM USA", winners of the 1980 gold medal. Yep,
hockey players are as close as you can get to soldiers…and NBC wanted to make
sure this parallel was not lost on the viewer and immediately CUT from the Olympic
testosterone brigade lighting the flame to the testosterone brigade in Khandahar.
---- At this point, I just turned the set off, went to bed, and prayed that when I woke
up today, it would all be just a bad dream.
---- I have always loved the Winter Olympics -- more than the summer counterpart,
in fact because I have a soft spot for winter sports (having lived in Maine for many
years -- my sister actually belonged to a curling team) I love what the Olympics are
supposed to stand for…a coming together of all nations in peace and play. To have it
subverted completely into a cheap piece of political propaganda was like seeing the
flag itself trampled beneath the Gucci clad feet of a bunch of martini-swilling ad
execs.
posted on February 9, 2002 05:04:12 PM new
No insult was intended for your thread, Roadsmith. Rather, I find the Olympics so political that it is too boring a special. As bad as Christmas is overly hyped and plastic coated by the media, the Olympics takes the cake. It's just one big, boringly long advertising campaign by corporations and politicians of the day. I used to enjoy it as a kid. But when Carter used it to make a political statement, I was outraged at the breaking of the sanctity of the Olympics. But Bush sitting with the athletes should have gotten him kicked out of the stadium.
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 9, 2002 05:25:46 PM new
Krs
Another great article by Cheryl Seal!.....I can find her articles here and there but nothing as current as the Olympic story. You must have a special link <wink> with this fantastic writer!
posted on February 9, 2002 06:37:00 PM new
I Object to you comparing Hitler to President Bush.
Hitler did not inherit his power he was elected.
Hitler fed his workers and improved His countries infrastructure.
Hitler worked his way up from the streets.
Hitler was able to take a country the size of texas that was filled with a quarter of the people starving in the streets, saddled with the worst of the great depression, Militarily stripped and in less than 6 years stand on step away from global domination with the strongest nation on earth.
they did have one thing in commmon they both seemed to have special classes for people who were not prisoners of war but were taken in combat.
and no I'm not forgetting all of the evil things that people including Herr Hitler did during the way. I'm just pointing out that Bush will never be more than a pimple on hitler's ---
posted on February 9, 2002 07:12:21 PM new
OK. I am known for not being a Bush supporter. But some of the crap in the article posted by krs is just too over the top.
For one thing, Olympic sites are chosen years in advance--they have to be since the city in question will have to do a lot of building to prepare itself. Salt Lake City was chosen back in 1995, so the location as zilch to do either with Dumbya, his campaign,Enron kickbacks, bible-thumping or anything else. Except, perhaps, bribery--that was the big scandal when Salt Lake was chosen, BTW.
For another, the opening ceremonies of Olympics games are *always* over-the-top, statement-making extravaganzas. And aimed to show the the host country in the best possible light. Why should this one be any different?
And I watched the opening ceremonies. Yes, the commentator did talk about Bush's statement about Iran and the camera did show us Bush as their athletes passed by. Far from being "scowling & squirmy" or "glowering indignantly," Bush actually just stared down at them without expression.
As with any Olympic games, the local fans from the host country poured on the cheers when *their* flag, their team appeared or was mentioned. So why should US citizens be any different than those from other host countries?
Commercials? Yep, lots of 'em. As there are in *every* Olympic Games--and everything else on commercial TV for that matter. It's been handled better in the past, true, by having transparent ads & voice-overs so you can still see what's going on. The fact that they were commercials sponsored by major corporations is easy to understand--who else could *afford* the airtime during the Olympics? Probably costs as much or more than airtime during the Superbowl.
And, yes, there are tickets available at bargain prices...seems that not as many overseas spectators came as were expected. Probably figured that the Olympics would make a prime target for terrorists.
Personally, I can't stand Bush. But I have as big a problem with others who distort reality to serve their own purposes.
posted on February 9, 2002 07:44:11 PM new
So point by point you agree with the article but want acknowledgement that some of the objectional portions of this olympic display are shared by other olympic displays.
posted on February 9, 2002 08:51:11 PM new
Borillar, and others: I have taken absolutely NO offense over anything said in this thread. I was honestly asking the question, knowing that many of you would have watched this event. Sometimes I don't trust my own impressions and want to know how others viewed the same events I viewed. I value your opinions.
Just got an e-mail from good friends who used to live in Utah. They loved every moment of it, and, even though Democrats, really loved Bush's role in the evening's events. To each his own!
Over-the-top hype that seems to be playing on my emotions always makes me a bit uncomfortable.
The feelings of many people in Northern Utah, where we lived until 3 months ago, were simply that they didn't want Utah to FLOP before the entire world. No hopes for huge successes, just, please, no flops! Last night I was almost afraid to look, even though I have some strong negative feelings about the state's dominant culture. You know, sort of like if you hear someone barfing, you HAVE to look--probably to make sure it didn't slop onto you?
Anyway, I appreciate all the opinions herein expressed. Thanks, everybody. ~Adele
posted on February 9, 2002 08:54:44 PM new
I'm sorry bunnicula if the spectacle still has its charm for you. For me, it's long gone -- just another way sell #*!@ to the consumers. And yes - when I was a kid, it WAS different. The advertisers were actually concerned about the folks who were more interested in the competition between athletes than that of the multi-national corporations and their products. Nowadays, the athletes are there only because they help to sell the products afterwards. Go figurine!
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 9, 2002 09:02:08 PM newauroranorth, I do not want to derail this thread by correcting a few things that you had to say about Hitler. But know that his "miracle" that revived Germany was only possible by massive loans from the world bank at that time which was funded primarily by Chase-Manhattan Bank a.k.a. The Federal Reserve Bank. That the gold stolen from the Jews at the holocaust, including the gold pulled from the teeth of the slaughtered, were all melted down and sent in as payments on that loan. That should go far in explaining why Bush wants us in debt so badly.
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 9, 2002 09:07:06 PM new
Although I watched this spectacle for a only a few minutes, I have a great deal of respect for the opinions of Cheryl Seal. I have been following and admiring her writing for several months. In addition to Cheryl Seal's article, I read other articles about this Olympic event and her story was corroborated in major newspapers throughout the United States.
Bunnicula,You have misinterpreted this paragraph..
---- "The very location of the Winter Olympics this year, of course, screams "Bush Administration." Salt Lake City was chosen as a payoff for the orgy of kickbacks, favors and collusions that became the center of a huge scandal -- you might call it the Enron collapse of the Olympic Committee. In addition, Utah is one of the whitest, bible-thumpin'-est states in the U.S.: 89% of the state is white, while more than half of all lands are owned by the Mormon Church. In addition, John Ashcroft's right-hand man, assistant attorney General J. S. Bybee is a Mormon. Other Bush administration Mormons include deputy White House Counsel Tim Flanagan, Director of the Bureau of Land Management Kathleen Burton Clarke, and Assistant Administrator to the EPA Jeffrey Holmstead."
The fact that the people of Utah are friendly to the Bush administration cannot be denied.
We all know that the choice of olympic location is chosen years in advance and in fact, before George Bush was appointed president by the Supreme Court of the United States. It's entirely possible that the choice of Utah was made in anticipation of his annointment. But war and conquest is the goal of George. A sports photo op is not uppermost in the mind of George. This little Utah extravaganza is small stuff for George. He wants to bomb the world.
You spend a lot of time and energy defending someone "that you can't stand". That lessens your credibility in my opinion.
posted on February 9, 2002 10:30:04 PM new
A ha !, Have you been reading wall street and the rise of Hitler ? (they published a soviet version too ) I was not trying to derail the discussion on historical points, to me these clowns running this place into the ground are nothing more than petty thieves who because the average citizen has traded a 6 pack for a 6 gun are running amok,
You know it's too Bad because most of us don't care how much they steal the problem is theuir greed knows no bounds, we have hungry in this country, elderly who cant afford their medicine, disabled people many of them veterans who get no justice, we used to be able to pay out al the social progrmas all the war in vietnam and the rest of the cold wat the space program now there is no money for anything except Chinese run factories in siapan churning out made in america labels with slave labor come on bush instead of running your mouth about some third world country with an outdated army why not throw the Chinese Communists and their slaves off American Soil or at least identify their products as such, wont happen because the new conservatives deal with commie scum , and th4 new democrats take donations from these murderers,
I will leave you with this thought in the year 1350 china's flag was yellow with a White drawing of a seated goddess of Liberty. the lone guy in front of the tank is something that the ruling class ought to think about, like in Russia you may one day find those tanks doing the right thing for a change .
posted on February 9, 2002 11:01:49 PM newhjw: whether or not I have "credibility" with you means very little to me. I certainly did not misinterpret that paragraph. And though I do not like Bush, I have enough integrity not to resort to outright lies to denigrate him. He does that all by himself. IMHO the man is an ass--but not Satan incarnate.
posted on February 9, 2002 11:08:03 PM new"A ha !, Have you been reading wall street and the rise of Hitler ?"
No. I read a banned book called "Trading With The Enemy" years ago. It was so well documented with footnotes and verifiable references that it should have been used as evidence in Neuremburg and put these corporate and bank bastards on trial and hang'm like we did the naziis for betraying us. I also read as a teen the history of banks and banking and their influence upon governments; plus how the Federal Reserve Bank came into being and the theivery that ensued.
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 9, 2002 11:10:22 PM new"IMHO the man is an ass--but not Satan incarnate."
I agree. He's too stupid to be Satan himself. Yet, one does not have to BE Satan to do Satan's Work. In the end, there is not much difference between the two -- is there?
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
sp.
[ edited by Borillar on Feb 9, 2002 11:11 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2002 11:14:54 PM new
Speaking of such, Bunni, George, Sr. is a Skulls Club member. Part of their initiation rite is to drink from the skull of Geronimo. The body was raided by white people and the skull stolen and is now used in that exclusive club's rituals.
Sounds pretty Satanic to me!
"As Grows the Tree, so goes the Seed."
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 10, 2002 06:57:20 AM new
This may be blasphemous to say, but I don't watch any of the events. For me, sports are something to participate in not watch others do. How's that for a personal philosophy?
posted on February 10, 2002 07:06:22 AM new
bunnicula
I assume that you are speaking of satan incarnate as Hitler since there was no mention of satan before your comment. However, the Bush administration tatics have been compared to those of Hitler.
posted on February 10, 2002 08:19:39 AM newBorillar: been watching "The Skulls" have we? In reality, they stole Geronimo's skull & *nailed* it to their wall. Perverse, but hardly "Satanic."
hjw: no, I wasn't referring to the fact that Bush was compared with Hitler. I was referring to the way that some people who don't like will stop at nothing in their quest to lay every single ill of the world at Bush's feet--even if they have to stray into the realm of the ridiculous. Next we'll be hearing from them that Bush sacrifices babies at midnight & reads their entrails before making state decisions...
BTW, much as I dislike the man, he is not *remotely* like Hitler. Stalin was. Idi Amin was. Bush, however, is certainly not.
posted on February 10, 2002 08:41:47 AM new"sacrifices babies at midnight & reads their entrails before making state decisions...
It's Laura Bush that does that, actually.
If your only measure of a dictatorship is a record of genocide, then you are correct though I doubt that the one necessitates the other for qualification.
Other people have had opinions which bear on Hitler' s successes and may as well pertain to the practices of this administration. FDR said, "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power.", and another lofty thought that ""Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." With these ideas in mind consider that a dictionary decription of fascism has "A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism", and I believe that it is in these senses that Borillar, Helen, and others are comparing this current administration to that of Hitler. Remember that Hitler enjoyed many years of office and in fact was elected. The German people were in many ways qquite happy with his accomplishments for much of that time.
posted on February 10, 2002 05:09:53 PM new", they stole Geronimo's skull & *nailed* it to their wall."
Not according to the complaint filed by the Five Nations. They state that the Skull club members use it as a drinking goblet. Of course, you would know differently.
"Perverse, but hardly "Satanic."
Really? I know an awful lot of Christians who would differ with you on that point. In fact, whole congregations, churches, and sects point out that such doings are Satanic. Oh well, at least we now know that all of THEM ar wrong!
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 10, 2002 05:18:59 PM new
They aren't wrong; without Christians we'd have no satanists or satanistic acts. Christians own the descriptions and the definitions, bunnicula owns a mule.
I took a special interest in it because my friends uncle, Kenny Ortega, is the choreographer and co-producer of the opening and closing ceremonies.
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