posted on June 9, 2002 10:03:44 PM new
Calamity LOLOL!!!!
<<<quote>>>
"Now I'm not trying to compare Pres. Bush to Pres. Lincoln, only history will be able to do that. I'm just trying to say that what I have read is very interesting."
<<<end Quote>>>
posted on June 9, 2002 10:26:40 PM new
A very nice post, Calamity! I wish you'd post more often in here. Say, Calamity - can I ask you your opinion? Swell! What I want to ask you is this:
Bush passed the Education Reform. Correct. But at the same time, he refused to fund any of his changes, thereby making his changes non-existent. Is he just being a silly President?
"I think he has handled the terrorist problem admirably and with great strength. He calmed the nation and brought about the patriotism we now see everywhere."
I agree. He did indeed calm the nation many hours after it happened when he crawled out from whatever rock he was hiding under. The Blind Patriotism that has instilled in many Americans loyalty and obedience that borders on fanaticism. He did finally make some swell speeches with rousing words that charged the air with electricity, although he uttered little of significance, unfortunately.
And speaking of History, I'd like to make a comparison to another great speech-maker of his caliber that brought his nation together in much the same way, only its not Lincoln.
It's true that Greenspan took the brunt of criticism for raising interest rates too high, too soon. Yet, with eight or so interest rate cuts, it turns out that the Fed no longer has the sort of control over the economy that it once had. You see, it used to be that the Fed could directly affect the economy as in Ronald Reagan's time. Back then; money was put into the banks. These days, it's put into the Stock Market, so Greenspan's policies have little effect on the economy (I saw this analysis on CNN a while back after the first five or six interest rate cuts failed to produce hardly any change - very interesting).
What I can tell you are two things:
1) When Oil prices shot up, the economy took a nose-dive. I don't have to explain the economics behind that one to you. And that began the Election Year.
2) Some thread on here a long while back showed where both Cheney and Bush, in the last couple of years of the Clinton Presidency, were actively going about trying to get oil prices raised for OPEC. I wish I was as astute as some others are at tracking these threads and posts down as some others are, but it was all very interesting reading. They were statements that they had made to the print media.
Now, suspicious person that I am, I add Item #1 with Item #2 and I get a picture of something unpleasant. Maybe that's just me.
Now, about the Farm Bill and those embargoes: now this IS a funny story. The last time that I told it here, everyone got a belly laugh out of it (or me for telling it). Here's how it goes:
There is the Banana King. Really. It's because his company buys, sells, and controls ALL of the bananas in this part of the world. One day, seeing no further horizons to conquer, he set his eyes upon Europe, who both then and now have their own cheap sources of supply of bananas. He then paid a visit to Clinton.
A funny thing happened after that visit. After that visit, Clinton went on an European trade tour and tried to get them to start importing this guy's bananas at higher prices than what they were currently buying them for. Isn't that silly of him?
Well, the Europeans weren't in the least bit impressed, and after explaining to Clinton that they had no need of this guys expensive bananas, a trade war began.
Soon there were Danish Hams being turned back at the Port of New York, and French Wines were jacked up high in price, and British beef (thank goodness it turned out) was all but completely banned from import to America. And so it went.
Now, this Banana guy (I forget his name - saw this on 60 Minutes) didn't give up - still hasn't. The trade wars escalated with one item after another. Soon, the Europeans were blocking our trade products that we were exporting to them and so on. And, as you know, it got to be a GIANT mess that it is today.
Unfortunately, with no foreign policy skills, Bush won't be able to untangle this thorny trade knot. We'll just have to wait until the next President comes in, hopefully with some foreign trade policy experience and untangles the nasty network of nonsense between Europe and us. Hopefully, the Banana King will just have to sit on one of his own for pleasure.
edited for spelling
[ edited by Borillar on Jun 9, 2002 10:29 PM ]
posted on June 9, 2002 11:31:09 PM new
Borillar, most of the time I find what I'm looking for simply by using a poster's name combined with unusual word they might have used in the thread.
To find the Banana Thread I used the keywords "stockticker banana rant".
posted on June 10, 2002 04:30:52 AM new
Gee, what lunacy is this?! Can't even leave town for two days and the imbeciles run rampant.
Borillar, take no heed of this attack. Remember back to your academic days when some of the most lively and in depth discussions took place - I'm certain that you were hell on wheels with your skills and intelligent perceptions. Remember too that the sort of person who brings about this nonsense would not have had opportunity to do so. You probably complained about the concentration on grade point averages then, but now maybe the real use of them can be seen by you? They, and the rest of the learning environs acted as a great weeder-outer of the sorts of people who would bring forth these challenges out of ignorance and mediocrity as LindaK brings here now. Such as that would simply not make the cut and no one ever asked what happened to them. Now on a chatboard with a keyboard they think that they are on equal ground? An "opinion" born of ignorance is no opinion at all.
There's little of the previous quality of this place left. It only takes a reading of one of the threads posted by stockticker in another thread here to see the profound difference. The morons have come where before they had the sense to shut up.
Don't try to lower yourself to their level in order to be understood. It wastes your energy and demeans you to do that. Instead go on as you were - there are many who can understand you, though they may refrain from speaking out simply to avoid having to interact with these others, and there are some who still will post albeit with a charitable polite regard for all that I'm afraid is beyond me, perhaps because my time spent surrounded by noisy and pestilent children has been limited by circumstance and choice.
Your patriotism is of a very high quality and you know that. Those who chastise you out of their misguided nationalism are much more traitorious than they charge you of being.
posted on June 10, 2002 08:33:34 AM new
nycyn You know, I never did get that bonus check/refund whatever. Aand I sure coould use it!
Couldn't you report the non-payment on your 2001 tax return? On my 2001 tax return, I was asked whether or not I received the refund. If I hadn't, I could have deducted the amount from the return.
We built this city, we built this city on rock an' roll
posted on June 10, 2002 10:41:13 AM new
I just want to express my appreciation for Borillar's contribution to the Round Table. It would be so wonderful if this country had more Americans with the intelligence and understanding that Borillar has - such as a President. Borillar clearly loves this country with a special enthusiasm. He has spent much time and energy defining this countries problems and educating many of us.
Thank you, Borillar for that!
It's really ignorant to think that dissension against political policy is wrong.
"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."
posted on June 10, 2002 11:07:31 AM new
KRS,Borillar has never seemed to me to be one that needed others to defend him.
I did speak up yesterday.What more do you expect people to do? Wasn't I mean enough?
Linda has a right to her opinion . I totally agree that she went too far calling Borillar anti-American but most of us have gone too far at one point or another.I am not going to hate someone for posting an opinion on a message board.Besides, we keep asking Bush supporters to give their reasons for thinking Bush is a fine president and then when they do give their opinion they get jumped on for it. I prefer to hear people out with out trying to threaten them. I really do want to hear what they have to say.
Sorry you think I'm an imbecile.
[ edited by rawbunzel on Jun 10, 2002 11:10 AM ]
posted on June 10, 2002 11:17:02 AM new
If Linda_K had called me anti-American I would not have been offended. I have known Linda_K for quite awhile and have enjoyed her posts. She and I have had our share of disagreements, but I don't think any less of her because of her "anti-American" remark.
We built this city, we built this city on rock an' roll
posted on June 10, 2002 11:17:25 AM new
If the founding fathers were to return today and speak out as informed citizens about contemporary political issues and societal problems, once it became clear that they were *really serious* in the beliefs that they espoused about human rights, equality, democracy, etc., they would be thoroughly denounced, set upon, and torn to bits by the rabid right. I have no doubt of it.
posted on June 10, 2002 11:22:26 AM new
True enough Antiquary. The right has become rabid. At other sites posters that say anything negative about Bush are called traitors and worse. I don't believe the left is as rabid. Maybe they should be. I do think that is both sides were as vicious as the right has become we would be headed for civil war. Maybe we are and I'm oblivious.
posted on June 10, 2002 11:34:19 AM new
I agree, antiquary and rawbunzel. I enjoy hearing arguments on both sides of an issue. But I really bristle when I hear opposing arguments labelled as anti-American.
posted on June 10, 2002 11:34:56 AM new
Lol, Robin. I think you know the answer to that question, but then again I'm biased in favor of the subject. But I can set that aside, and answer truthfully, no.
posted on June 10, 2002 11:46:20 AM new
Ahem. I did think about whether there would be a need to make a roster of those whom I would not include in the descriptives above, but it is a long list and I am a slow and faltering typist. I can assure you Rawbunz that had I done that your name would have been included upon it, alphabetically listed so that no inference of ranking could then be the stimulus for any further insecurities.
posted on June 10, 2002 12:03:09 PM new
I knew that. I was just making a point since your post made it appear that it was 'Borillar posts alone against the moronic imbeciles'. While I do disagree that posters on the opposing side are all imbeciles , I did want you to clarilfy that not all the posters here are placed in said catagory.
Guess I should have put smilies and winkies in my original post.
posted on June 10, 2002 12:06:36 PM new
Rawbunzel, sounds like a line from the sixties - "Love it or leave it".
Yesterday, I was sorting through some papers my father had saved and I came across some pictures of KKK members in Georgia during the mid- fifties. Even the cars had KKK boldly written on them. There were pictures of men and women and children of different ages. It's worrisome that people could be so at home with their prejudices that they would ride around with that label written on their cars in huge letters. I'm sensing a bit of that in this country now - the lack of hesitation in calling opposing opinions "unpatriotic" and the hatred too quickly displayed.
posted on June 10, 2002 12:10:27 PM new
The left and the right, not necessarily this forum specifically, but in general, have a tendency to "demonize" the other side by name calling...bigots, un-american, etc.
We built this city, we built this city on rock an' roll
posted on June 10, 2002 12:15:55 PM new
Saabsister, they use that very line.
I agree it is very disturbing to see that people on the far right seem to think it is ok to tell people that disagree with them that they are traitors,Un-American or should "love it or leave it". I would never tell them that and find it shocking that they would feel that way about people that do indeed love this country but speak out against what they feel is going awry.Even more shocking that they feel it is ok to say it on public boards.
Those people obviously never attended a debate class.
Just a friendly question because I'm trying to understand. Wouldn't you consider it rude to tell another poster that his comments are anti-american, radical, non factual and frightening?
posted on June 10, 2002 12:38:40 PM new
Hi Helen, Yes I do think it is "rude" to call another those things if no explanation is forthcoming. Linda did state her opinion as to why she felt that way and did mention that we were taking it not in exactly the way it was meant. However I never did become clear on how we were supposed to take the remarks.
My opinion of LindaK is that she is not ordinarily a rude poster. We all do say things that maybe get taken incorrectly or we wish we had stated better or perhaps not stated at all. So while I do think that she went over that imaginary line we've drawn by saying that Borillar was anti-American I said my piece yesterday and the rest is up to Linda and Borillar to sort out. I do think an apology for that one remark would be nice but it's not up to me to say so.
posted on June 10, 2002 12:42:43 PM new
Oh darn,Helen, I forgot to address the other parts of your query.
When it comes to telling someone that their ideas /comments are "radical,non-factual and frightening" those are things we bandy about here regularly so if that is rude we are all guilty at one time or another. The only comment I personaly took offense to was the anti-American one.You ,of course, may take offense to any comment at any time and that is your perogative.
posted on June 10, 2002 12:53:13 PM new
But instead of an apology which you might expect someone to make if they discovered that their remark was out of line, Linda started another thread to attempt, after the fact, to dredge up evidence to support her opinion.
I believe that she should apologize and I think that it is ok for me to say so because I was offended that a fellow poster was so insulted.
posted on June 10, 2002 01:17:32 PM new
I just happened to notice that Linda_K was still asking "what is an anti-american" to antiquary last night - after calling Borilar's comments anti-american yesterday morning.
Hi Stockticker! My opinion of you has not changed, if that is what you are referring to and I am sure that you have just as much respect for me. LOL!
posted on June 10, 2002 01:28:03 PM new
Helen, Perhaps Linda_K is unsure of the definition of anti-American so has to ask? I did note that even though Linda asks what others think the definition is she has yet to answer that herself [except to agree in part to what others posted] but I think she will give her view if asked.
Borillar clearly loves this country with a special enthusiasm. He has spent much time and energy defining this countries problems and educating many of us.
