posted on June 26, 2002 10:51:52 AM new <QUOTE>
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
<END QUOTE>
by...
— Herman Goering
Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) commander
at the Nuremberg Trials
posted on June 26, 2002 12:04:40 PM new
An EXCELLANT Quote, Helen! Amazing that you found it! If you went to go see "The Sum of All Fears" and you recall how Bush keeps bouncing back and forth to Berlin "to consult", you might make a conclusion. Recall that Patton did not remove the Naziis from power and their government remained intact with the same people in the same jobs doing the same things every day.
posted on June 26, 2002 12:17:05 PM new
NearTheSea, your question has already been answered before I could get back to you.
The problem that you and many Americans are having is one of SCALE. You just don't think Big enough. People with political ambition have Big Dreams and with the Republican Party's strategy of NO LIMITS, NO HOLDS BARRED, TOTAL WARFARE, TOTAL ONSLOUGHT, ANYTHING GOES, not even the most obscene possibility is excluded from examination and given a likelihood. Was the last election rigged by the right-wing Republicans? You betcha! Did the GOP send Buchannon to it's other rival party, the Reform Party, to torpedo it so that DECENT Republican Voters wouldn't have a choice? You Betcha they did! Did the sons of some of the Supreme Court Justices stand before their parents sitting on that bench to present Bush's case? You Betcha that they did! Did the Bush Camp and the Republican suck up the entire economic surplus and spit it into their private coffers? You betcha they did! Is there ANY outrage that they have not stooped to so far? Haven't they arrested foreigners and detained them without trial indefinitely? Haven't they done the same to an American Citizen and DENIED HIM HIS RIGHTS? Isn't this the very same Administration that came out just last week to let us know that the Rights of Americans can be suspended at any time because Americans don't have a right to their Rights? You betcha they did!
So, tell me, WHY is it so far-fetched to think that the Bush Administration will find a way to block the election process in two years? And when it does happen, will you still be enjoying your current views then?
posted on June 26, 2002 12:49:21 PM new
Borillar, I see that I misunderstood your statement about the 'invisible Terrorist plots' (threats? I am not sure if plot = threat here)
Where I said that I think there are real terrorist threats, I probably didn't make that clear enough, I do believe there are REAL threats out there.
All the you wrote above, yes I've heard it all, mostly here, by you
Do I agree with all that?
no comment cuz I don't want to argue with you on it again
I'm here, because we're moving, and I'm supposed to be packing, and I obviously do not want to pack
posted on June 26, 2002 01:29:43 PM new
LOL Gravid
Unfortuntaly we are moving more east. (We're in the Northwest) But not forever, husband keeps saying this is temporary, until he retires, then it will definitly be 'near the sea'
He wants to retire near the Chesepeake, where he was born.
posted on June 26, 2002 01:39:13 PM new
NearTheSea, we have neither more nor less Terrorist Threats these days than we have for the last several decades of being involved in the Middle East and Oil. Did we go into Afghanistan and >>S*M*A*S*H<< the Al-Queda organization, destroy all of their bases there, kill thousands of their troops, capture several of their prized leaders? Are we not constantly helped around the world to capture and round up Al-Queda operatives? Aren't we sending advisors over to other countries to help them to clean up remnents of Al-Queda? You know the answer to that.
But concider that we have not done the same to The Sudan, which is Al-Queda Main Base #2. Didn't we expose the Saudiis of being the #1 Main Financial backer for Al-Queda -- the very same people who asked us to set up bases on their Dirt and these folks who PAID CASH FOR the 9-11 attacks to happen go unpunished altogether? Concider that the leaders of Al-Queda were allowed to slip out of Afghanistan in order to take certain holdouts there? Have we not given Al-Queda every chance to reorganize and plot new attacks?
I ask you this too: has not Bush turned his attention AWAY from Al-Queda altogether and instead turned to the Bush Favorite Pet Whipping Boy, Sadaam Heusein as our next Target? And in the meantime, hasn't the Bush Adminstration come out almost daily with new "Terrorist Plots" and Alerts? Hasn't the Bush Adminstration come out almost weekly with some other new way to remove YOUR RIGHTS as a Citizen of the United States of Amerca?
So, are there terroist Threats and Plots? Yes! Do these Terrorists come from outside our boarders or from the White House?
maybe you people don't realize it but there is a war now.....and I don't think an election can be posponed because of a war. The constitution says when the election will be and that is when it will be. Gore tried his darndest to prolong the counting of the Florida Ballots to no avail because of the constitution, now tell me the constitution was written by republicans who could forsee problems and stop them before they start. It's a good thing you have someplace to go to to get rid of your inhabitians.
I thought about it, and you sound too angry to discuss it right now
I still believe there are terrorist threats to this country and other countries, and not from the White House or Bush
I do have some questions about this Homeland Security, and I am surprised you have not ragged about that office.
Libra thanks for the link. That was interesting. Its a lot the way my husband, who, voted for Gore, and when this stuff started coming down, changed over, and during that looooooong ass period of waiting, decided he liked Bush, and was thankful that Gore did not win. (Sorry Borillar)
He makes some really good arguements on this very subject, but will not come on here to do it, I asked him (yes he joined AW before I did, but doesn't post)
He also had contributed to the Gore Campaign, and during this election 'fiasco' he actually called the Gore Headquarters, and started making some noise about how he thought it was terrible the way Gore was acting over this. They hung up on him
posted on June 26, 2002 07:24:46 PM new"maybe you people don't realize it but there is a war now"
There it is again!
First, there was the War on Poverty. It was a quaint euphemism that conjured up the idea that the nation's resources would be used and dedicated to the cause. Since the President does not have the constitutional authority to declare a real War and Congress can't just simply let legislate it into letting the President be able to declare war, any such war was just a nice Title. When there was criticism about the President back then, you didn't hear ignorant people say, "maybe you people don't realize it but there is a war now"!
Then came the other so-called "wars" declared by Presidents: the War on Drugs and the War Against Illiteracy. These too were ceremonial titles in nature, since the notion that the President can draft up a Declaration of War and commit US Troops to foreign soil is so laughable, because the Constitution gave that right to Congress and ONLY Congress.
Then we have Bush's War on Terrorism. Since he can't actually declare War himself, the effort is only a "Nicety" and ceremonial -- just like all of the rest have been. But this time, Bush illegally took US troops and put them on foreign soil to conquer a foreign country. You can say "the Taliban" and "Al-Queda", but that's just another "nicety." The Taliban was Afghanistan's LEGAL Government with that nation's troops - and we blew them all to Hell! That sounds like a WAR to me! Problem is -- it isn't legal.
Oh, sure - Congress agreed to fund this little expedition of Bush's, illegal though it may be. I imagine that after 9-11 and Americans being so angry to kick Someone's Butt, not a single politician DARED to object! So, the War That Never Was; or, Bush's War continues.
And I know, it's been argued that the legal and historical term "WAR" with all of its significant historical contexts and presidents doesn't really have any meaning - to some people, that is. A Declaration of War is a legal document: you may as well argue that a Writ of Habeas Corpus does not exist either!
posted on June 26, 2002 07:32:26 PM new"I am sorry to say this but the blacks seems to a little mouse when it comes to making a choice between selfdirected in life or if you vote for a democrat you may live off welfare, be dependant, be increasingly illiterate, be a increasingly likely to commit a serious crime,Etc." -from Libra's link above-
Mainstream reporting? A "Fair and Balanced" presentation? It sounds just like a Rush Limbaugh Entertainment episode to me. Not to mention how ignorant his rantings are. I mean, I think that Gore should have asked a full-recount of the state. That would have been fairer to me than to just recount those districts where he is likely to have them most votes: although, most of the sabotage' WAS done in those precincts. Certainly, if Gore had asked for and had been granted a full-state recount, Bush would be back on his ranch in Texas and his father left to brew up more no good deeds against America.
You might spend a little time in florida election laws so that you can find that part which restricted Gore to three challenges in three counties or something like that. He followed the letter of the law when he should have ignored it as the other guys did.
"and I don't think an election can be posponed because of a war"
Think again. It certainly can be postponed during declared martial law as I'm coming to think is part of the bush gameplan.
posted on June 27, 2002 10:59:59 AM new
I'm no fan of ole Bush but then some of you guys go to far,
Now then take that rumor ya all started that he asked the presdient of Japan ''You have elections here ?'' I know for a fact that the president of Japan said sure every morning.
posted on July 1, 2002 11:41:49 PM new"In an unusual telephone conference call with three appellate judges, Deputy Solicitor General Paul Clement reiterated the administration's assertion that the president alone has the power to make a determination - not subject to judicial review - that someone is an enemy combatant and that such people should not have access to lawyers. Enemy combatants can also be detained until the war on terrorism ends - another determination that the president alone is empowered to make, Clement argued."
-from KRS's link above-
PEOPLE! When from now on, you hear anyone arguing about how right this idea is quoted above, think not about Bush, but Nixon. Imagine if this same power had been given to Nixon! This is a BRAND NEW PRESIDENTIAL POWER NOT GIVEN BY THE CONSTITUTION OR BY AMENDMENT!!!
posted on July 1, 2002 11:57:03 PM new
Yes If this had been given to Nixon maybe we would have won the Vietnam war and not had thousands of missing in action and Prisoners of war un accounted for.
Maybe Johnson would have had to explain why his first act was to sign for his wifes company to dredge the harbors of vietnam the largest contract ever to that point.
Maybe a draft dodging parasite like will jefferson would have served time in jail for evading the draft.
