posted on June 27, 2002 12:08:37 PM new
The southern Baptists will have a big problem with this ruling. Recently, they fought to have signs stating IN GOD WE TRUST hung in every school room.
While I was in Mississippi, I was just taught to ignore their focus on religion.
But I hope that the words "under God" are removed from the Pledge and all references to religion are removed from schools, government offices and documents.
There are lots of gods and some don't believe in any god. Nobody should have to pledge allegiance to a country under a God that we don't know or believe in.
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 27, 2002 01:06 PM ]
posted on June 27, 2002 12:18:44 PM new
If people want to pay homage or worhip their God, we can do that in appropriate, private places such as churches and other environments that is not sanctioned by any form of government and using taxpayer's money.
Not all taxpayers agree with the pledge.
Unfortunately, because of 9-11 and the 4th of July celebration, I think that if it gets to the US Supreme Court, it will be overturned.
posted on June 27, 2002 12:25:57 PM new
Red Skelton was only a human being just like the rest of us.
Lately, we are seeing more and more celebrities testifying as "experts," just because they studied for a few months on character/subject research and they starred in a popular movie on the subject in which they are speaking.
Even experts, with formal education are only human beings with opinions based on their experiences. That doesn't mean that they are right and those of us who aren't "experts," are wrong. Sometimes it just takes "horse sense" and not a degree.
[ edited by clarksville on Jun 27, 2002 12:28 PM ]
posted on June 27, 2002 12:51:43 PM new
The "under god' addition was readily accepted. In context, the cold war was in full swing and the red scare and HUAC did its thing. Affirming a belief in god was supposed to be an affront to the godless communists.
People were actually freightened to dissent in the 50s. It could mean the loss of your job, and your children being ostricized, being investigated and/or arrested.
posted on June 27, 2002 01:02:52 PM new
So the words under God were added under McCarthy? Were they trying to scare the godless
commie pinkos?
The RR needs to remember the words with liberty and justice for all.
"we derive our rights from God"
Hey, that's the divine right of kings, and we don't have them in the USA.
Yet.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
That's the version which stood between 1924 and 1954, before the McCarthy controlled Congress got
its hands on it.
posted on June 27, 2002 01:10:52 PM new
The guy that started this whole thing, went to court because his first grader was being subjected to saying the Pledge, and he didn't want her saying One Nation Under God.
That's incorrect.
He went to court because his daughter had to listen to the pledge everyday, not because she had to say it. He considers it preaching and didn't want his daughter subjected to it anymore.
That's incorrect.
He took this case to court because he had previously lost a case to have "In God We Trust" removed from his money. He felt, correctly, that the case of his daughter and the pledge might prevail where his private concern had not because the pledge situation has a wider effect, effected children, and so had a wider base of sympathetic support.
posted on June 27, 2002 01:13:49 PM new
But- even if a child can opt out of the pledge, the courts have ruled in the case of school prayers that the ability to opt out does not satisfy the Constitutional prohibition.
posted on June 27, 2002 01:32:37 PM new
So the guy likes to go to court a lot.
Wonder when he has time to practice medicine.
He is a doctor? correct? (since everyones correcting everything )
posted on June 27, 2002 02:14:44 PM new
" America is the first country in the world to
be created in the image of a godly nation. The founding
fathers studied the Bible to see what it revealed about the
way men should govern themselves"
Where does he get this stuff?
Where are these studies documented.
There have been many theocracies.
All the Kings of Christendom have claimed to rule by the "grace of god".
So strange they did not speak at greater lenght about the source of all their design.
No here is a man speaking that simply does not know history.
If he is stuck on total original intent with no progress we also need to restrict citizenship to white males.
posted on June 27, 2002 02:57:39 PM new
Historically speaking, there has been different civil righs movements who have tried "test" cases in order to advance equal rights.
The black civil rights movement, abortion rights movement, gay civil rights movement, etc did this.
There was a woman (it may have been a man) before Rosa Parks that tried to advance the black civil rights, but her image, record etc was not working. Along came Rosa who had a good image that would work.
It is common to have several court cases in order to change things.
So to use that he has a habit of "suing" or whatever, IMO is mudslinging.
I am just sick of the Congressmen puffing up their chests because of the pledge issue.
posted on June 27, 2002 03:05:03 PM new
With those two or three fools who through their ignorance
Think that they are the wise ones of the world
Be an ass, because in consequence of their ass-like nature
They think everyone an unbeliever who is not like them an ass
----Quatrains of 'Omar Khayyam You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on June 27, 2002 03:31:54 PM newHe took this case to court because he had previously lost a case to have "In God We Trust" removed from his money. He felt, correctly, that the case of his daughter and the pledge might prevail where his private concern had not because the pledge situation has a wider effect, effected children, and so had a wider base of sympathetic support
That may have been one of his motivations for pursuing it, but he made no mention of it during the interview I saw of him this morning. According to him, he felt his daughter was being subjected to "their dogma" whenever she had to hear her classmates say the pledge.
posted on June 27, 2002 03:36:27 PM new
And so I said, he goes to court a lot. That was mudslinging? (I think I've seen worse)
Ok OFF TOPIC. I have not had to enroll any children in school in a long time, thank God
When I did, I had to bring documents from their doctor showing they'd been immunized, and they were all up to date. Then in the school registars office is a sign: No shots; No School. and then below, something about certain exceptions. (I knew what they were, but asked anyway) so I ask. They say, that certain religions do not use medical care, and they are exempt. Why does a Public school allow that? They are bringing their religious 'laws' into the school system here, I would think. Did they do away with that, or are there still exemptions?
I know, its not a big deal. But they would not allow my child in school, unless I showed documented proof they had their shots.
So, has there been anyone going to court trying to change that?
posted on June 27, 2002 04:03:18 PM new
NearTheSea I'm glad you added a smile to the "mudslinging" cause I didn't mean anything with it. It was only my opinion and you know everyone has one. Excuse me while I take my head out my opinion.
posted on June 27, 2002 04:29:51 PM new
Nearthesea, every child is entitled to an education in the public school system. Requiring all children to have vaccinations would deny children of members of sects such as Christian Scientist that education, as well as children who cannot have the vaccinations for medical reasons. The overriding right is the right to an education, not that every child have vaccinations. Therefore, exemptions. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on June 27, 2002 04:31:03 PM new
An interesting sub-fact. The fellow is both a doctor and a lawyer so what ever you think of him don't conclude stupid.
It was only last year that the religious right tried to make it mandatory to pledge or you could be expelled in the state of Virginia. School systems don't really have any respect for students. I can just see them actually sitting and talking about the reasons the student did not want to pledge. Get REAL. They TELL you what to think feel and do. That is what they thrive on.
2001-FEB: Virginia: Pledge bill defeated. State Senator Warren E. Barry
introduced a bill making the recitation of the pledge of allegiance mandatory for
every public school in Virginia. In doing this, Senator Barry violated his oath of
office, in which he promised to uphold the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Supreme
Court has interpreted the Constitution as implying that anyone has the right to
refrain from reciting the Pledge. Under his bill, any student who refused to recite
the pledge, without a valid philosophical or religious objection, would be
suspended.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 27, 2002 04:33 PM ]
posted on June 27, 2002 04:51:17 PM new
Yes, I realize every child is entitled to education in this country.
But with all you hear about the 'system' and the social workers getting into peoples business; child neglect etc, its crazy.
(because IMO NOT giving immunizations is child neglect)
There was one case in Wyoming? that a couple went to court over the Hepatitis B shot. They did not want their child to get it. They said their child would never be an intervenaus drug user, or sexually promiscuis. (yeah whatever... ) and that in giving the shot to her would promoteimmorality. Thats too much. They used their religious beliefs in this. I think they lost.
posted on June 27, 2002 06:56:57 PM new
Gravid it is important to be historically accurate, while the Germans did in fact have such belt buckles, it was not just officers either. Hitler did not put it there. He has enough to atone for without being a red herring dragged into this.
the saying was on German Military equipment as far back as 1774.
The Hessian troops had adorned much of their camp with the sayings at their officer's blessing.
Washington in his daring raid on Trenton's hessian encampment crossed the dealware alone with his forces.
all the while believeing that the other American officers were also crossing
(in fact they were back stabbing him at every turn trying to sabotage his palns several were outright traitors some were just fools)
When the sucessful attack routed the paid mercenary troops Washington noticed a sign like this and had it cut down and taken back with him.
He said''prisoners will be easier to handle if we show signs of authority.''
as a foot note the king had originally asked to buy Russian troops and the Queen of Russia Not only refused him but lectured him on how to properly treat one's subjects and warned him not to send a major forces against the colonies if he valued world peace.
We have never thanked the Russians for this and it's about time.
another footnote is that the feds when breaking Henry Ford down in the 1920's asked him How many British soldiers came to fight the war in 1776, Ford replied a lot more came here than what went home.
I remember being in school in Milwaukee during tha race riots
I remember that if the Whites stood for the pledge they were attacked.
I remember that class driving 3 homeroom teachers nuts.
they finally sent us a black psychologist as a homeroom teacher.
hes still a big shot there. BUt by the time he finally got there diversity was done to 3 whites left.
I'll say the pledge and the under god does not bother me a bit even though I would not set foot in one of these clown outfits if ya paid me.
Years ago there was a leading scientist who was also a major anti religion figure a friend painstakingly made him a 3 d map of the solar system and left it on his desk.
he sai who made this and the friend said You know, I was hoping you could tell me?
posted on June 27, 2002 11:05:41 PM new
Maybe they would likew this better,
I pledge alliegance to the flag of the United states Supreme court, and the the profits for which it stands, One case indivisible with No pro bono work at all.
Shakesperen ''the first thing we do, Lets Kill all the Lawyers.''
But they say it was taken out of context.
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(I think I've seen worse)