posted on September 13, 2002 01:42:20 PM new
Boy that's interesting aposter. I had never heard of that before...food-disparagement law. So basically, this law says beggars can't be choosers and they're the drug-lords of meat. Figures.
Yes, I've gone through the whole vivisection, traps, mink farming, etc., and that, along with the slaughter houses, are the worst things I've ever seen - ever. I can look at autopsy photos, crash scene photos - very gruesome stuff, but they don't campare to the way animals are treated.
Someone here said the civility of society is based upon how they treat their animals, so we must be quite sick. The biggest problem is that people might not realize what really happens behind the scenes.
Also, if you choose to eat meat, although you might not get sick after you eat, it's the accumulative effects I'm concerned with. Could it possibly be a leading factor in heart disease, cancers, etc. that nobody wants to admit to because everyone loves it so much?
posted on September 13, 2002 02:32:30 PM new
Kraftdinner, if you have time this weekend do some surfing in Pubmed. It gives a general idea what is being researched.
I couldn't get the full links to work on the few I looked at, but you can cut & paste each of these numbers in their search window and check out some of the latest research when using the key words I used.
I remember years ago reading about our intestinal length not being suited for meat.
Edited to add: Some of these may be pro meat, pro veggies or both. I went through them rapidly and chose a few that didn't have alot of medical jargon that needs a medical degree or Physician's dictionary.
There were at between 8 to 10 abstracts that came up, but some didn't have full text.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 13, 2002 02:41 PM ]
posted on September 13, 2002 03:32:07 PM new
The US has the most hygenic food preparation in the world. It also has the best medical care in the world.
In other countries an e-coli outbreak isn't even put on the news because there are too many of them. I watched amedical show the other night in which a woman had a tapeworm egg lodged in her brain and had to be operated on. She got the tapeworm from a one day trip to Mexico and eating a Taco from a street stand.
The reason that "alternative" medicine is at odds with the AMA and FDA is because these practitioners refuse to subject their claims to scientific testing.
What alternative practitioners do is take advantage of desperate and naive people.
The example of vitamin C and Pauling is a good example. Pauling made the claim, subjected it to scientific tests, and SOME of his claims were vindicated. Pauling was a scientist, not a charleton, and was aware of the standards.
posted on September 13, 2002 03:57:15 PM new
Reamond, I believe the alternative methods of medicine are now being studied by NIH or one of the national health associations to see what works for conventional medicine and what doesn't.
When there are so many doctors using or getting alternative therapy it would be stupid not to
see what would work. I believe there is a whole branch of one of the methods.
There was a segment on the news today on a surgeon who practices conventional medicine in the morning and acupuncture in the afternoon. I believe his last name was Leonard.
My doctor sent me to an acupuncturist after an allergic drug reaction & gall bladder/liver problems possibly because of that reaction. The woman was also an MD, who believed that conventional medicine was failing people so she added the second speciality.
posted on September 13, 2002 05:08:44 PM new"My doctor sent me to an acupuncturist after an allergic drug reaction & gall bladder/liver problems possibly because of that reaction. The woman was also an MD, who believed that conventional medicine was failing people so she added the second speciality."
You consulted an acupuncturist for a liver and gall bladder problem?
I can understand the use of acupuncture, because of it's possible placebo effect to ease pain and psychosomatic disorders in patients who have confidence in it's usefulness but for a real medical problem, I would only consult a physician or specialist.
posted on September 13, 2002 06:06:46 PM new
I love meat. Can't help it, I was born loving meat.Some of my first words were "mo' meat" and that is not a joke. I read a book about 35 years ago about the way we slaughter our food and it made me sick.It did not turn me into a vegan. I cannot read that stuff anymore or think about it too much. I wish we treated our meat animals better. I wish I could fix the system but I can't.
There are times I wish I didn't love meat but I do.
posted on September 13, 2002 06:25:10 PM new
Helen,
Sorry I didn't explain it. It does sound weird.
I had already been to my GP and a Gastroenterologist and had an ultra sound. They said there wasn't much they could do with the gall bladder inflamation. They said I could either have my gall bladder out or wait for the inflamation to go down. I didn't want them to do any surgery. I do not react well to heavy duty drugs or anesthesia, and the doctors knew that. We weren't sure whether the medicine actually caused the inflamation or if it was a coincidence. I opted for what
was the safest way to go for me.
I had a severe reaction to a mediation and had been ill for six weeks. A few weeks after stopping the medicine I had developed nerve problems. I still do. The drug has since been listed as one not to take because it can cause nerve damage. The gallbladder/ liver problems came about right around that time.
Both doctors suggested the acupuncturist because they knew she was an MD and could help with
complementary medicine. She really did help with the inflamation. After the second session I felt better, and it continued.
I had to quit going because I was having allergic reactions while in her office. The first time I thought someone was smoking and felt sick. We finally realized I was reacting to the moxie they burnt in the office. The last time I was there the office staff accidently burnt moxie, forgetting I was in one of the treatment rooms. I had to wait almost an hour before driving the 45 minutes home because I started to pass out. I researched later and found that moxie is mugwort. I knew I had a slight allergy to that, just didn't know they burnt it.
Long story. Don't recommend doing something like this for anyone else. I still have bouts with my gallbladder once in a while. I wish I could go back for more sessions. There are acupuncturists who will go to the home, but I can't afford that. I think that is why I am so intense about things like natural medicine and natural foods not contaminated by men. With severe allergies I have to know what I am eating, drinking and breathing (not successful there) and one
by one my options are being taken away.
However, promising results have emerged, for example, showing efficacy of acupuncture in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma, in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program.
posted on September 14, 2002 11:09:42 AM new
Helen...I used to think acupuncture probably worked thru the placebo effect also...
then I met a fully certified VETERINARY acupuncturist...this guy is a practicing DVM who has added acupuncture to his bag of tricks. a friend of mine had an old german shepherd with arthritic hips..when she would get really down, my buddy would take her for a 1/2 hour session with this vet, and the dog would be up and around for several months, feeling fine!...He has also used his technique on a few horses I know of, to great success...I doubt very much an animal is responding to a placebo, there has to be something else going on there....
posted on September 14, 2002 02:55:45 PM new
Profe51, I just find this so hard to believe. Does arthritis have periods of remission? Or maybe that vet snuck in a shot of cortizone?
Just consider me a lost cause on this one. I can't believe in acupuncture or alternative medicine and I don't have much confidence in medical doctors either, so you can guess how far off the beam I am. LOL!!!
posted on September 14, 2002 05:27:31 PM new
profe51,
There was a special a few years ago on animal acupuncture. It was very interesting.
Helen, the NIH site I listed above gives some background on acupuncture and why the government thinks it could work on some problems.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 14, 2002 05:32 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2002 08:06:15 PM new
helen, as I said, I was very skeptical too...I'm sure arthritis does have periods of remission...but we're talking about an old dog who has to be carried into the vet's office and half an hour later walks out...even a shot of butyzolidine ("bute" takes a while to work on an animal (it's faster on human animals, oops I mean football players, and that's why it's illegal for people now, never was a human drug as far as I know...it makes cortisone look like baby aspirin, but is very hard on the liver and other vitals)...I know this doc...he's not giving anyone shots of anything without telling the animal's owner...I've seen him work on barrel racing horses that turn up lame, and the horses are able to stay in training, no shot's, and no time for remission or normal healing...beats me how it works, and the vet freely admits that he doesn't know either...but it does!
here's a link to the American Academy of Veterinary Acupuncture's page...
posted on September 14, 2002 09:05:51 PM new
Profe51, It certainly sounds like a lot of people and animals are somehow helped by this procedure.
I don't suppose it's effect can be easily tested. I was in the emergency room with one of my kids while a fellow nearby was having a heart attack. The nurse kept yelling to this poor guy...Now tell me how much the pain is on a scale of 1 to 10!
Pain is very subjective and so easily influenced by so many variables...
I suppose I would have to try it out but right now, I don't have a problem with pain.
posted on September 16, 2002 12:55:20 PM new
The following little item was recently seen in a magazine:
An animal-rights activist has launched a booming business of selling leather-free collars, restraints, and harnesses to sado-masochistic vegans. Eric Ward's Web-based business has been endorsed by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals because he makes whips and slappers of a microfiber that looks like leather. "More and more people are looking for items that are cruelty free" says a PETA spokeswoman.
Cloned Food Products Near Reality
Items Could Reach Shelves by 2003
By Justin Gillis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 16, 2002; Page A01
Milk from cloned cows and meat from the offspring of cloned cows and pigs could show up on grocery shelves as early as next year under the plans of livestock breeders who are already raising scores of clones on American farmsteads.
A special NAS panel that reviewed developments in animal biotechnology was alarmed by genetic manipulation of fish and insects that might escape and harm wild species, but it found cloning of farm animals less troublesome, since the technique involves copying adult animals without altering their genes. The committee called for a few additional studies but said the technique was unlikely to affect the safety of the food supply. <snip>
<snip>
But it's fuzzier than that: Research indicates that cloning alters some genetic patterns, at least slightly, and there's a small scientific possibility that this could affect the resulting meat or milk. Preliminary comparisons have suggested there's little cause for worry, but the FDA is awaiting more definitive data.
Scientists said offspring present no risk because they are the product of natural sexual crosses. "The offspring of clones we're not concerned about at all," said Hallerman, the expert from Virginia Tech. "That's just a normal animal."
One concern for the FDA is that breeders going to the expense of cloning may also attempt genetic modification of the animals, perhaps to make them leaner or improve milk production. Such genetic manipulation poses far more potential problems than mere cloning does, and the FDA would likely require extensive proof that the gene-altered animals are safe to eat.
<snip>
The biggest remaining concern is animal welfare. Though clones that survive to adulthood typically seem healthy, they die in inordinate numbers in the womb or just after birth, and the pregnancies appear to be stressful for the surrogate mothers.
Concern about animal suffering is not confined to the most assertive animal-rights groups. The NAS panel raised it as a serious issue, and mainstream groups like the Humane Society of the United States are also alarmed.
"We are deeply disturbed by the idea of mass cloning by the industrial agriculture industry," said Wayne Pacelle, senior vice president of the Humane Society. "It will accelerate the drive toward factory farming, which is already becoming dominant."<snip>
I read a book about 35 years ago about the way we slaughter our food and it made me sick.It did not turn me into a vegan. I cannot read that stuff anymore or think about it too much. I wish we treated our meat animals better. I wish I could fix the system but I can't.
takes a while to work on an animal (it's faster on human animals, oops I mean football players, and that's why it's illegal for people now, never was a human drug as far as I know...it makes cortisone look like baby aspirin, but is very hard on the liver and other vitals)...I know this doc...he's not giving anyone shots of anything without telling the animal's owner...I've seen him work on barrel racing horses that turn up lame, and the horses are able to stay in training, no shot's, and no time for remission or normal healing...beats me how it works, and the vet freely admits that he doesn't know either...but it does!