posted on December 19, 2002 01:33:58 PM new
The percentage of mid-term voters this year slightly increased.
While many were turned off by the results of the last Presidential election, the fact remains that voter turnout has been going downhill for 42 years. IMO, most are just too damn lazy to vote, but there are also large numbers who have always thought that their vote couldn't possibly make a difference, so they don't vote. A self-fulfilling prophecy--they don't vote, nothing changes or goes the way they'd like it to, so these voters then say triumphantly "see, I was right!" Idiots.
edited for spelling
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Dec 19, 2002 01:34 PM ]
posted on December 19, 2002 03:19:35 PM new
I read this thread with the thought that something "new" might have been uncovered. But I was disappointed. Just a few thoughts:
1) The "Bush has full immunity" title implies something new has happened but of course this is not true. Nothing has exempted Bush from his responsibilities. Bush's accountability with this new Congress is the same as Clinton's with the old Congress.
2) There is also nothing new in the Presidential privledge of being exempt from many legalistic procedings. This has been in effect since the beginning to prevent partisan politics from handicapping the executive branch with useless grandstandings. This immunity was reduced during the Nixon years but is still in effect for all Presidents.
3) The US Supreme Court did not "overturn" any election. It merely stated that the Florida court had no authority to usurp a FEDERAL law decreeing the time limit for the submission of the state's count and that the state could not extend the federal limit due to its' own ineptness.
posted on December 19, 2002 05:32:52 PM new39.2% is an increase?
Yep. Only 37.6 percent voted in the 1998 mid-term elections. Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on December 19, 2002 06:12:17 PM new
This doesn't mean Bush is immune from being prosecuted for wrong doing. It hardly compares to Hitler who used force to keep others in line. I'm wondering why you bring this up now when all Congressmen have some sort of immunity for decades? And why are you so outraged over a federal court decision? Obviosuly there is some merit to it.
posted on December 19, 2002 06:43:35 PM new
There! Now this is the sort of opinionated posting that you ought to be doing, DeSquirrel, than what you've been doing of late. I just thought I'd congratulate you.
1 & 2) The "Bush has full immunity" title implies something new has happened but of course this is not true.
Au Contraire'!
New, as of when? For me, it's a comparison between what the last Presidential Administration and this one. For instance, it was only AFTER pushing Clinton through an Impeachment Trial that the Republican majority sought bi-partisan support to exempt future Presidents from Special Prosecutors/Prosecution. Bush enjoys that luxury that other previous Presidents have not enjoyed.
But it doesn't end there. As this article points out, a Republican-appointed judge last week provided the Bush administration another layer of protection from congressional scrutiny -- also not enjoyed by previous Presidents.
At a time when Bush has expanded his authority far above what would be considered safe for any healthy democracy, his cloak of secrecy has lengthened just as much - a contradiction to the good health of our democracy!
And there are many other little new ways that Bush is hiding what he and Cheney are up to from the scrutiny of the media and the American people. Much of this has already been brought out into the open here in the RT before; others are so new that we haven't discussed it yet (for instance, with the powerful Democrats not longer in the driver's seats for investigating the White House activities, who in the Republican party who will now be in those chairs is going to go after Bush and Cheney, would you wonder?)
3) >The US Supreme Court did not "overturn" any election.
Really? You state that the federal Supreme Court's authority to make a ruling was derived at by the federal election law having a defined time limit for the vote count? That theory is overruled by the fact that Voting is exclusively a State's Right. Furthermore, the Constitution did not give any provision as how to handle the near 50-50 split in the Presidential vote. Once again, that means that the voting problem fell into the hands of the State, not the federal Government. Legally speaking, they had no jurisdiction whatsoever over the matter, but they did anyway, which invalidated the election.
On a softer issue of propriety, Federal Supreme Court Judges Scalia, Thomas, and O'Connor all had grandchildren working on the case for Bush in the Florida matter. Any other judge would have removed themselves because of bias. These three did not have the honor to do so, and so, any sympathy for their position that they took is founded upon wet sand.
posted on December 19, 2002 08:20:52 PM new
Borillar
You keep intimating that the people are close to rebellion, having told us many times of friends and aquaintences that have spoken about rebeling. I don't doubt there are such people, but I have to say I don't think we will ever be in a situation again like in the 1700's that a few men with muskets (or the modern=assault rifles) can march on the capital and turn the rascals out.
If there is a direct rebellion like that it will be smashed in days. The military would have no problem at all firing on their own people. And they are armed better.
However if things get too oppressive to live here comfortably I would not be surprised to see a long and ugly civil war of terrorism and sabotage. Infrastructure would be targeted more than people.
It may come to pass that power lines, tranformers, communication cables and towers will be downed and police and federal agents will be unsafe away from areas they can get quick back up. You could see ambushes and sabotage of police vehicles. You could see the deliberate destruction of public records and private info. like bank data.
If that happens wire cutters and demolition charges will mean much more than firearms.
posted on December 21, 2002 01:06:47 AM new
It has been quiet of late. People feel disorganized and are alone in their private fears about the economy and the world. It is the calm before the storm. I feel that we are waiting for them to take the next step; to start mass violations of American citizens. But once revolution starts, I doubt that many peole will acutually join in. Many people might just like having a strongman dictator in charge, keeping news of the real world away from them, letting them indulge into their drugged world and private fantasies -- reality need not apply. The powrer brokers know this -- the American people want to be treated like children and expect the US Government to be a parent that takes care of them; and only when it doesn't do they care or pay attention. We have movies and games and so many other things to enjoy life with -- if some people get their kicks out of pretending to be aristocratic Lords and Ladies amoung us, what do we care? Why should we burst their bubble? If they want all of the money, it is no concern to us, because there is plenty of money to go around and so many ways to make more for yourself, so who cares if they have so much money that it would stack up into mountains? So long as the police protect us from ourselves and from outsiders, what can they possibly do to bother us? It doesn't matter because it doesn't change the way I live or you live or anyone else that matters, so why make a fuss? Why get the authorties riled up and on your case? Better to play along, have your fantasies, pay attention to the things that really matter, like your mortgage payments, and kiss off the outside world. Right?
posted on December 21, 2002 08:16:19 AM new
>Borillar. eleven minutes after you posted this message,you started this thread;
>"Careful What You Write In here From Now On!"
>Do you see the contradiction?
How can you make a comparison between what I write in this thread and topic and the article that I posted in another and then be concerned about some sort of linkage without being labeled "paranoid"?
posted on December 21, 2002 09:15:33 AM new
Borillar
I understand the point you are trying to
make.
You gotta understand that everybody doesn't
have the same worldview. People have thought the world was coming to an end at many points in history.
The left coast people, sans the capitalists
prefer to stick their heads in the sand and
wait for judgment day. It doesn't matter if
I don't pay my bills, don't take care of my kids, don't teach them work ethic or how to compete, because we're all gonna die soon
any way. Get it?
Yeah, so everyone gets screwed at some point. Should I tell you to chill out?
You all gotta realize that life is not a bowl of cherries and even the really rich have a price to pay.
The freedom you have now; that price was
paid by someone. And I hope you all care who that was.
People who live in the suburbs think they're protected. We live in a gated community so please take the guns away. If it doesn't apply to us, then yeah. Why is it important.
You all need to realize that we need the left and the right to function as a country.
And the media, you guys know that most of them are a bunch of uneducated wackos put there because they got nice hair or something.
posted on December 21, 2002 09:21:40 AM new
Oh, and BTW...
Forgot to add that there is a reason the U.S. is a superpower. And it is not because of manifest destiny.
You guys know that everyone always tries to
infiltrate and destroy the Top Dog.
Has that happened? Hmmm...are we looking
at Keynesian economics or Marxism?
No. Can everybody be top dog? No.
Do people in this country feel victimized, often times does the victim get rewarded? Well, yeah. They write a book about why they killed their children and they make a million dollars.
People don't a have conscience? Do they know right from wrong? What makes people SNAP? Go postal, whatever?
Am I fat because I ate too many twinkies or do I have no self control?
It's the sugar, it's the ADHD on why your child can't function at school.
posted on December 21, 2002 09:27:13 AM new
and something else if you think Canada or Mexico or Switzerland is a safe place to hide, history has shown you that those countries will be the first to go, or the first to be taken advantage of and manipulated.
And Europe, they're a bunch of sell outs.
Would I sell out? Oh yeah, if someone was
holding a gun to my head.
There's a reason why people don't like Americans any place you go.
posted on December 21, 2002 12:38:11 PM new
You know what? I believe you, You don't know the difference.
When you make statements about,
"But once revolution starts"and
" strongman dictator in charge"
Did it dawn on you that words as these, and others,can trigger the spyware in place?
And you talk like everyone here, is going for what you say."We and "us" is not in this chatroom.
Then to add insult to injury,You have to moan about how lazy people are,and they need a baby sitter.etc.etc.
You don't know what people are going thru,and in our society the powers that be, keep our lives so wrapped up in bull patties,we have to separate ,what is important at that givin moment.Its too much,to absorb and some people just blow their brains out,so they don't have to deal with it anymore.
So insult away Borillar,Thats just what people need right now.
