posted on February 12, 2003 06:44:09 PM new
However you feel personally about it, this seems to be turning into something phenomenal.
10 million join world protest rallies
From Africa to Antarctica, people prepare to march for peace
John Vidal
Thursday February 13, 2003
The Guardian
Up to 10 million people on five continents are expected to demonstrate against the probable war in Iraq on Saturday, in some of the largest peace marches ever known.
Yesterday, up to 400 cities in 60 countries, from Antarctica to Pacific islands, confirmed that peace rallies, vigils and marches would take place. Of all major countries, only China is absent from the growing list which includes more than 300 cities in Europe and north America, 50 in Asia and Latin America, 10 in Africa and 20 in Australia and Oceania.
Many countries will witness the largest demonstrations against war they have ever seen.
The majority will be small but 500,000 people are expected in London and Barcelona, and more than 100,000 in Rome, Paris, Berlin and other European capitals. In the US, organisers were yesterday anticipating 200,000 marching in New York if permission is given. A further 100,000 are expected to march in 140 other American cities.
What is extraordinary, say the organisers, is the depth and breadth of opposition that the US and Britain are meeting across the world before a war has even started.
"This is unprecedented. Demonstrations only got this large against the Vietnam war at the height of the conflict, years after it started," said a spokesman for Answer, a coalition of US peace groups which helped organise a march of 200,000 people last month in Washington.
Many in the global peace movement optimistically hope that public opposition to a war is becoming politically significant and could now affect the timing of an invasion of Iraq and possibly even help avert conflict altogether.
"The internationalism of the opposition is the most powerful weapon people have. It's all we have. We think that Bush and Blair are well aware that global opposition is mounting fast and that they are now desperate to start the war before they are completely isolated by world opinion," said a spokesman for United for Peace and Justice, a US coalition.
New polls in Europe and the US yesterday suggested that opposition is still mounting and is likely to continue even if the US gets a second resolution. Spanish and Dutch polls showed that more than 70% now oppose even UN-mandated action, with slightly fewer in Italy. Yesterday CND reported that it was struggling to cope with the deluge of people wanting to join.
In Germany, more than 300 towns are sending coaches to Berlin, where more than 100,000 people are expected to march.
"Opposition is broader than at any time in the past. This will be the largest peace march in 20 years," said Malte Keutzseldt of Attac, Germany. "The peace movement is getting older now, but a new generation of young people is deeply concerned. The churches and unions have linked to make the coalition far broader than even the anti-nuclear missile marches in the 1980s".
In Paris, a march organiser said that feeling was running high and that he expected the anti-war demonstration to be largest ever. The most unusual rally is expected to be in the international territory of Antarctica, where dozens of scientists and others at the US McMurdo base on the edge of the Ross sea will take to the ice.
The idea of an international day of action against the war was first suggested in London after the last peace march in October. It was discussed by peace and anti-globalisation groups from 11 countries at the European social forum in Florence in November, but only became truly international following meetings in Cairo, Egypt and Porto Alegre, Brazil, last month.
Since then the idea of coordinating international peace protests has spread rapidly across the world and up to 30 new cities a day are believed to be planning demonstrations. Next month activists from all continents will meet in London to propose further global actions.
Coordinated international demonstrations have flourished in the past five years with anti-capitalist marches and campaigns by environmentalists and anti-globalisers against corporations like McDonald's, Shell and Esso, and against global warming or international trade. Mostly organised on the web by activists working below the radar of the mainstream media, they have taken the establishment by surprise in many countries and only been reported by independent media.
"The whole world's marching," said Helmut, a German student in London. "This peace party should be better than the millennium celebrations."
· The Stop The War Coalition (STWC) is planning a display of mass direct action designed to bring Britain to a standstill on the day any war starts with Iraq. The protests would involve demonstrations in the centre of London and other big towns and cities, wildcat strikes by anti-war supporters and mass sit-ins at schools, colleges and universities across the country.
A spokeswoman for the SWTC said: "We do think there will be a whole wave of civil disobedience if war breaks out. People want to be peaceful and are quite slow to anger, but they will be very angry if after Saturday's mass show of opposition Tony Blair refuses to listen."
posted on February 12, 2003 07:01:06 PM new
10 million protesting is "something phenomenal"? More people bought Michael Jackson's Thriller CD. Three times as many people downloaded music on Napster. There was close to 1 million people at Woodstock.
I think you could get 10 million world wide to protest baldness or uncomfortable shoes.
But does this mean that the other 5 billion people on earth support the war ?
posted on February 12, 2003 07:15:29 PM new
Assuming it actually happens...I hope so. I fear that a lot of people are "getting on with their lives" as the President has told us is the right thing to do, and have even stopped watching the news. My kids and I are going to one in a town up north, the last rally they had was less than impressive and the local news made it look like just a bunch of wackos, so we'll see...
posted on February 12, 2003 07:30:50 PM new
I doubt if all the people that purchased the MJ CD would have done it on the same day for the same reason. This is great to see.
We are having a huge march here on Saturday.The police are getting the tear gas cannisters ready.
Did anyone see on CNN [I think it was CNN..was one of those all news all the time stations..could have been FOX] where they showed a poll from England where 32% of the people felt that the US is the greatest threat to peace in the world? That was the highest number. Iraq and Korea were behind. [their numbers were in the 20's]
posted on February 12, 2003 07:37:21 PM newThose are passive not active
A soccer game is passive ? It is no more passive than going to a peace protest and milling around listening to the Communist Workers Party nuts berate the US and Bush.
posted on February 12, 2003 07:41:47 PM new
Don't need ya to acknowledge it. 10 million world wide is nothing. But I doubt that there will be even half that many.
I'll also wager the "hoards" that come out in these protests to support terrorists and Saddam Hussein will be over reported in countries like Germany and France.
There is nothing "active" about attending anti-US rallies. It is no more active than watching TV.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:02:00 PM new
I see the spokesman for "Answer" calls it unprecedented, even compared to the 200,000 in DC. Hmmm, I wonder if he was the guy on the podium thanking the "500,000" for showing up, while the Parks people estimated 30,000-40,000. Depending on your math, you could get 100 mil worldwide easy.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:07:40 PM new
Well, that's the neoconservative math for you, DeSquirrel. Combined with neojournalism, the reporting lately just never adds up, so to speak.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:10:45 PM new
There were protesters that hated Hitler and war, and Uncle Ho and war. The results and who you intentionally or unintentionally support speak for themselves.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:15:10 PM new
Reamond is trying to demonstrate a somewhat subtle use of the either/or fallacy, red herring tactic, and strawman argument all rolled into one.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:16:40 PM new
Unfortunately, Helen, there is no politics in numbers. You can't change what IS just because you want it to be.
Anybody been to any good "million man" marches lately?
posted on February 12, 2003 08:22:53 PM new
The only thing reamond is demonstrating is that appeasing terrorists and despots leads to more death and misery than a pre-emptive war will cause. And there are those that are just plain anti-US hiding under the guise of being pacifists.
The problem with "peace" protesters is that most are not peace protesters nor true pacifists. They are people that have an anti-US agenda and there is nothing pacifist about them.
Why aren't you "peace" protesters out organizing millions world wide to protest against Hamas, or al Quaeda, or Saddam Hussein or Jung Il ?? Or better yet, organizing world wide to root these terrorists out of the areas where they hide ?
I can only conclude that because you protest only actions of the US, you must be anti-US.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:26:11 PM new
It seems a bit of an extreme response to cover your inability to answer the initial question,Reamond. Amusing though.
edited to add direct address
[ edited by antiquary on Feb 12, 2003 08:27 PM ]
posted on February 12, 2003 08:41:18 PM new
I guess you would call supporting the US extreme. The original question was answered, you just lack the intellectual honesty to accept the truth.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:46:03 PM new
You've presented no logical, even rational, answer to anything. A high school sophomore could have done better.
I'll keep checking to see if you can come up with something. I'm in no hurry.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:48:24 PM new
No, what I've done is show how childish and sophomoric these so called "peace" protests are. Not to mention that 10 million people in a world of over 4 billion is not even a blip.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:53:59 PM new
Not quite. You've shown that is your assertion, or belief. You've presented nothing that even parallels the topic and the initial point under question. But I can well understand that you wish to evade it since it evokes such strong emotional outpourings.
posted on February 12, 2003 08:56:49 PM new
Like I said, more people watch Baywatch than are alledged to be attending this hate and blame America first "event". The Super Bowl draws a bigger crowd and is more honest.
posted on February 12, 2003 09:02:03 PM new
Is it not possible to support the US without supporting the current administration? If not then what about 8 years of whining about Clinton? Were those people not supporting the US? If they hated it here so much why on earth are they still here? Shouldn't some other country be full up with ex-patriots by now?
Wait!! I know!! Because they were able to love the US without supporting the administration!
posted on February 12, 2003 09:06:03 PM new
Why it is an honest response !!!! Don't tell me about your "peace" protests when it is in fact a protest because your political party is not in power.
[ edited by REAMOND on Feb 12, 2003 09:10 PM ]
posted on February 12, 2003 09:11:08 PM new
Still no answer to the question. Just a stream of rather silly personal attacks. Unfortunately, that's always the case when logic is lacking.
