REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:15:05 PM new
No, it is honest responses to the dishonest claims of the hate and blame America first program of the far out of power, far out of logic and far out of reason political Left.
If the democrats stay with the "peace" at any cost ritual, the next election will be a worse wupin' than the last. It will be a republican sweep. They'll stack the courts too.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:19:05 PM new
Wrongo!!!
I do not have a political party.
These aren't really peace protests in the way that they were in the 60's. These are anti-war protests. Anti jumping the gun protests. No one that I know thinks that Saddam is a nice guy and that he should stay in power. No one.
They think that now is not the time to go in there guns blazing on some trumped up pretext that is going to come back and bite us in the butt.People are being whipped into a frenzy. That frenzy is keeping them from thinking clearly. We have bigger fish to fry.Saddam is a little fish. Remember Al Qaeda? Gosh. I could have sworn they were the ones we were fighting..they are the terrorists.THEY HATE SADDAM. They will be his bestest buds however if we go in there willy-nilly.
Of course, the whole rest of the world could be wrong and Bush and Co. could be the only smart people on the face of the earth.
God save us .
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DeSquirrel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:19:58 PM new
Reamond's assertion would be simple enough to demonstrate. Just take a list of the organizers and groups associated with the event and examine where their "pacifism" has taken them in the past.
If you find his mocking of the number is incorrect, wait until Sat. and come back and gloat.
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antiquary
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:24:35 PM new
Another strawman argument. The left that you're talking about was never very large in its heyday and has virtually disappeared today. What you are arguing against is a moderate, reasoned response to political problems. Very neoconservative, but has no basis in reality.
Still no answer to the initial question. I'll keep checking. In case you can come up with something.
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:25:00 PM new
The world?? Another exaggeration. You mean France, Germany, Belgium, China, and maybe Russia. Nearly all the rest of the world with the exception of Iraq and Iran, has aligned with the US.
This is exactly like the 60s crap. We abandoned the nation of Vietnam to a fate worse than the war the cowards and hate America first crowd protested against. Nearly all of the leaders of that mess regreted it as soon ast the communists started murdering and "re-educating" the people of Vietnam.
There are fates worse than death and war. Appeasing tyrants and terrorists will cause the world to realize those fates.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:25:35 PM new
I have not mocked the numbers. I've seen the false counts at every single protested event for years and that included during the Clinton years. Yes, it always goes on.
Yes, some of the organizers may be socialists, some may be communists for all I know. That does not make all the people who protest socialist or communist. Quite the contrary. They are all Americans.Americans who are speaking out in a legal and American way.
Why does that bother you?
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DeSquirrel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:34:09 PM new
It bothers me not in the least. I merely agree with Reamond that a significant number of those who show will be there for a good ole America bashing session. They'd be there if it was officially a protest against mango ice cream.
As to the war being "less important" than Al Queda or Bin Laden. Without monetary and physical support they are nothing. You can stop terrorism by cutting off their support a lot faster than killing them 1 by 1.
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:39:20 PM new
Like DeSquirrel said. The biggest thing that "bothers" is the dishonesty that is inheirent is these types of protests.
It isn't just pacifists. I doubt that more than 3% will be true pacifists. The other 97% are America haters. They hate our culture, they hate our freedoms, they hate our successes, and revel in our failures and short comings.
Joining in with these groups is intentional or unintentional support of Saddam Hussein and terroritsts.
[ edited by REAMOND on Feb 12, 2003 09:40 PM ]
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:43:31 PM new
There has been no proof that Saddam has given anything to Al Qaeda. Saudi Arabia has. Why don't we bomb them?
I know...Al Qaeda has threatened us here at home and New York specifically. That is a great reason to bomb Iraq.
When AlQaeda hits us again this week [as our government is telling us they will]I am sure we will go in. SURE of it. After all,Iraq is blowing up our buildings ,right?
When we are there you can bet I will support our troops. I will fly my flag and sing God Bless America along with everyone else. I will still~ and always ~ disagree about going in there now.
Reamond, you are so very wrong. Just because others do not think as you do does not make them America haters. You've got some issues. Really. You are filled with hate.
[ edited by rawbunzel on Feb 12, 2003 09:45 PM ]
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antiquary
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:45:59 PM new
Well, Reamond you must admit that they're an easy target for prejudicial stereotyping right now, and since so many groups are ostensibly exempted from overt attack today, it can't be much fun for those so inclined. Brings to mind the Bomb Iraq song, doesn't it.
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:50:00 PM new
Once Iraq is stabilized and democratized, the whole region will change. There is no way the despots in Iran or Suadi Arabia can survive long with a successful democracy near by.
While not yet perfected Jordan and Egypt has changed dramically since the Israeli democracy came into being.
Iraq can nor be permitted to continue to develop WMDs under its current leadership and political structure.
There is no reason to believe that Hussein will not pass these weapons off to terrorists groups. Iraq is the place to start in the gulf region because it has the most secular population. It will adapt quickly to democracy with minimum religious resistence.
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:53:53 PM new
Filled with hate ?? I'm not the one going to a hate and blame America first world rally.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:56:47 PM new
Reamond, I hope you are right since we are going to go in there and kick some booty. I wish it was the booty that would stop terrorists but it will be booty none the less.
If you are right I'll print this page out and eat it. I swear I will.
What will you do if I'm right and all we accomplish is to bring more terrorism to this country and the rest of the world and get quagmired in there like we did in Nam all the while reducing our economy to rubbish? Will you at least eat the page?
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 09:58:56 PM new
Wrongo again! I didn't say I was going to the rally...I said they were having a huge one here.
Maybe if your read the posts........
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 10:13:11 PM new
Read my post- I said "I'm" not going to the rally.
all we accomplish is to bring more terrorism to this country
Well... we had more terrorism 9-11 and we were not in any war then. Terrorism is going to continue to come to our country until we take the war to them, and win it and win it decisively. Muslim terrorists will attack the US and its interests no matter what we do or don't do save for one thing, and that is to start taking these countries and their leadership out.
I have admitted that Iraq is not the worst terrorist allied nation in the region, but it must be pacified before the US can operate effectively in the region. We can not put naval task forces and large contingents of military in the region with the spectre of Iraqi WMDs being given to terrorists to use against our troops.
Iraq is the most logical and strategic place to start cleaning up the gulf region.
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rawbunzel
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posted on February 12, 2003 10:20:37 PM new
Reamond...you said "I'm not the one going...." that implies that someone here said they were going. I did read your post.
I think you are wrong about what is going to happen in the region...I think it is going to explode with hate for the US thus giving the terrorists more people willing to do their dirty work.
You think I'm wrong, I think you are wrong.It's the American way.
Americans are not lemmings.We think for ourselves and make our own determinations. Hall-el-ul-i-ah!!Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
[ edited by rawbunzel on Feb 12, 2003 10:21 PM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on February 12, 2003 10:30:33 PM new
going to explode with hate for the US
That's already happened. It has nothing to do with what we do or don't do. We are targets for what we are, Americans.
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antiquary
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posted on February 12, 2003 10:56:33 PM new
Below is a link to an excellent search site for mainstream world news. Objective and amazingly thorough. An education in itself.
http://www.wnnetwork.com/
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mlecher
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posted on February 13, 2003 05:57:28 AM new
Don't even think it antiquary, the absolute LAST thing these blind follwers want is to be educated. It would really mess up their opinions.
Their minds are made up, please don't confuse them with the facts.......
.................................................
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Firemen, Police.
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
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Helenjw
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posted on February 13, 2003 06:45:38 AM new
Anti War Demonstration Sites Feb15-16
Death and destruction in Iraq. The UN is preparing for half a million Iraqi casualties (see the leaked internal UN document at http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/war021210scanned.pdf Medact, the UK affiliate of International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War -- winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985 -- estimates a possible half million deaths (assuming no nuclear weapons are used; see "Collateral Damage: the health and environmental costs of war on Iraq - Report," http://www.medact.org/tbx/docs/Medact%20Iraq%20report_final3.pdf And despite claims that the attackers will be careful to avoid "collateral damage," the British Defense Ministry "admitted the electricity system that powers water and sanitation for the Iraqi people could be a military target, despite warnings that its destruction would cause a humanitarian tragedy." (Independent, Feb. 2, 2003)
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snowyegret
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posted on February 13, 2003 06:58:20 AM new
the right to use city streets as a public forum is not an “absolute right.”
Link
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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DeSquirrel
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posted on February 13, 2003 07:00:39 AM new
"the absolute LAST thing these blind follwers want is to be educated. It would really mess up their opinions"
You couldn't "educate" a dog to sit up with a pork chop hanging around your neck.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:18:01 AM new
U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Jones concluded that heightened security concerns posed by up to 100,000 protesters would threaten the public safety and security of the U.N.
In her 26-page ruling, Jones said that the First Amendment guaranteed the right to protest but did not ensure the right to march.
She noted that demonstrators could hold a stationary rally sanctioned by the city at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza, located at 47th Street Between First and Second Avenues. An overflow crowd could gather two blocks north along 49th Street between First and Second.
No one's right to free speech is being violated. Because of the heightened security concerns in the area of the UN building....I totally agree with this decision and am pleased to see Judge Jone's decision was upheld on appeal.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:25:58 AM new
WASHINGTON - A chill spread across the nation's capital yesterday as anti-aircraft missiles were stationed around the city amid the increased risk of a terror attacks. Capitol police carried gas masks and the Air Force stepped up its combat air patrols and deployed extra radar here as federal, state, and local governments tightened security, and anxious Americans stockpiled food and water. Avenger anti-aircraft missiles were placed near national landmarks, including the Washington Monument and the Capitol. [Taken from the New York Sun.]
Somebody is taking this latest terrorist 'chatter' seriously.
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 13, 2003 08:27 AM ]
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DeSquirrel
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:28:28 AM new
This is another thing. The intention here is not to protest, it is to disrupt. You know they don't want to sit in a park somewhere with their signs, they want to inflict themselves on others. Heck, I don't care if they protest. It's going to be cold Saturday, I might even toss a box or 2 of donuts to them as I drive by. But somehow I think they're going to want to be standing in front of my car. Hopefully the cops will keep them in line. I sure hope the merchants in NYC have their insurance paid up for when the "pacifists" go by.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:32:43 AM new
Linda
LOL!
Do you have your duck-tape, Linda?
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 13, 2003 08:36 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:37:52 AM new
Yea...peaceful pacifists.
I might even toss a box or 2 of donuts to them....well, you're much more generous than I.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:39:42 AM new
Linda,
Cover your computer, seal it with ducktape and go back to sleep.
Helen
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colin
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posted on February 13, 2003 08:48:59 AM new
All of you should give these protesters a break.
It's their right to protest and be seen on TV, no matter what they believe in.
Amen,
Reverend Colin
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mlecher
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posted on February 13, 2003 10:01:35 AM new
Hopefully the cops will keep them in line. I sure hope the merchants in NYC have their insurance paid up for when the "pacifists" go by.
I'm sure the Neo-Conservative with be flying in a few paid "peace" activists to "protest". Just like the protestors in Florida during the attempted recount...specifically paid and brought in from out-of-town.
.................................................
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Firemen, Police.
We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
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