posted on February 18, 2003 08:31:34 AM new
HOW CAN IT BE ABOUT THE OIL? IRAQ PRODUCES MAYBE 3 MILLION BARRELES PER DAY.... WE CONSUME ALMOST 20 MILLION BARRELS PER DAY...
SO WE ARE JUST INVADING IRAQ FOR 15% OF OUR OIL CONSUMPTION? COME ON, EVEN THE CHICKENS DON'T BELEIVE THAT.
posted on February 18, 2003 08:38:38 AM new
There is no bandwagon Helen.
I live in the suburbs of Washington D.C., where I was living when the Veterans of Vietnam were returning.
Ok, I believe you, but I thought it was you that had said you grew up and lived? in MS or TN or somewhere in the south, but I very WELL could be wrong, it was probably someone else here.
I had read those things Stockticker posted... they read that these 'myths' could not be absolulety ruled out also
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 18, 2003 08:41:23 AM new
twelvepole, I often think about that too.... these people hold signs and scream its about the oil.
WE DON'T GET OUR (U.S.) OIL from Iraq..
Ok lets just make it about oil... we'll take Iraq, and their damn oil fields and call it $4 a barrel and lessee how unhappy the world is with that..(they won't be!)
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 18, 2003 09:12:08 AM new
::HOW CAN IT BE ABOUT THE OIL? IRAQ PRODUCES MAYBE 3 MILLION BARRELES PER DAY.... WE CONSUME ALMOST 20 MILLION BARRELS PER DAY... ::
TWELVE: Oil production rates are dictated by OPEC (and the limits set on them via embargos) All Bush would have to do is kick up the production rates on his new toys.
TWELVE & NTS: Of course you realize that if he does this and there is another problem in the region we will recieve no support or offers of using an arab nation for a staging point. Prepare for 7 new problems. Any regime we put in place that opts to ignore OPEC regulations will undoubtedly have to deal with a whole new problem - 7 wealthy nations that want them toppled with the money on hand to fund a whole new set of coups and set the region into further turmoil.
::If it was about oil the US would be invading Venezuala. That is where the oil supply problems are.::
REAMOND: Threats of strikes in Venezuala are irrelevent, other OPEC nations will pick up the slack. Problems in Venezuala are just an excuse used by Oil companies to further jack up gas prices.
[ edited by neonmania on Feb 18, 2003 09:14 AM ]
posted on February 18, 2003 10:01:34 AM new
Stockticker, are you still outraged about that thing last year? As an American citizen, I'd hate to think this unfortunate incident has put a rift in our relations with our "neighbors to the North." Let's try to keep things in perspective. They were only Canadians.
posted on February 18, 2003 10:13:38 AM new
Donny, if you're in the mood for trolling, I'm sure you'll find plenty of fish swimming around here eager to to snap up whatever bait you choose to throw.
posted on February 18, 2003 11:23:37 AM new
>As I said then, your President's inexcusable behavior would have a damaging effect on the relationship between our two countries, and it has.
I agree, Irene. This is what happens when people knowingly vote for an idiot for President. They knew he had the least amount of foreign diplomacy on record for any Presidnet ever. And it shows glaringly. Most people in the world are convinced that the American people are complete and total loosers to have been so stupid as to try to place this creep while knowing how totally unqualified that he is. This is another example of how placing a "puppet" into power with "handlers" doesn't make any difference because the puppet does have those handlers. Like I've said before that there are those certain situations that handlers can not do a damned thing about and we end up having an insane, greedy puppet running the Free World!
posted on February 18, 2003 11:50:43 AM new
Bah. Tell the truth.
American-Canadian relations have always sucked. Canada was angry at the U.S. long before this. American policy towards Canada has always been, more than less, lip service. Bush's great failing re Canada is that he didn't give the customary lip service. Substitute most any country for Canada and that pretty much sums up American international relations.
Of course we know what the real problem here is. Canadians are jealous of the U.S. 'cause we're better than them, and they all wish they were us. They whine about things like Acid rain or a couple of deaths while we have to sit here gritting our teeth because they're taking up too much of our continent. After all we've done for them, the ingrates.
posted on February 18, 2003 12:13:38 PM new
And look at what the Canadians did this weekend ALONE. One of their dastardly frigid cold weather high pressure systems took up with one of our Tropical Florida Low Pressure systems and now we be digging out for days.....
.................................................
Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Firemen, Police. We call them our heroes...but we pay them like chumps
posted on February 18, 2003 12:16:28 PM newBunnicula...You may have seen the origin of the myth on television. In fact, it may have been staged. Even documentaries have directors.
Oh, please. I suppose you believe space flight and walks on the moon is all staged, as well...
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on February 18, 2003 01:25:05 PM new
DISRESPECTING THOSE FINE CANADIAN SOLIDERS THAT DIED HELPING THE US... ONLY SOME SPINELESS WORM THAT NEVER STOOD FOR ANYTHING WOULD DO THAT...
BUT HEY, WITHOUT THE SH*T EATERS OF THE WORLD ALL THE GARBAGE WOULD STACK UP...
posted on February 18, 2003 01:27:18 PM newOn the soldier issue: I was not around during the Vietnam War era, but I do have two uncles who both served there. Neither of them ever reported being spit on, specifically, but the younger of the two told me a story about being in a restaurant in Atlanta and having three teenage girls squirt ketchup in his direction while screaming "murderer." The ketchup missed, but he said he barely made it outside before he threw up.
From what I've heard, even from the protestors themselves that have been interviewed, is that America learned a lesson about separating the role of the soldiers, sailors and airmen who serve this country responsible from the bad policy decisions made by their leaders. You can honor those who serve while still disagreeing with those who put their lives needlessly at risk.
posted on February 18, 2003 01:43:56 PM new
Twelvepole said:
HOW CAN IT BE ABOUT THE OIL? IRAQ PRODUCES MAYBE 3 MILLION BARRELES PER DAY.... WE CONSUME ALMOST 20 MILLION BARRELS PER DAY...
SO WE ARE JUST INVADING IRAQ FOR 15% OF OUR OIL CONSUMPTION? COME ON, EVEN THE CHICKENS DON'T BELEIVE THAT.
This statement is so ignorant it gets its own response.
Where have you been hiding? IRAN IS UNDER TRADE SANCTIONS. The amount of oil exported is severely limited right now under the oil-for-food program. Without getting into the question of whether that program is accomplishing its stated goal (getting food to starving Iraqis) the United States has agreed - heck, it lobbied for - limits on the amount of oil Iraq can legally sell. Production has been scaled back because the oil cannot be legally sold.
The real question is How much oil does Iraq have? The answer: A hell of a lot. OPEC rates Iraq as having the world's second-largest proven oil reserve at 112.5 billion barrels. (Saudi Arabia is first with a 262.7 billion barrel reserve.) However, Iraq's supplies may be seriously underestimated, because the country has never had the resources or the domestic tranquility to determine the true extent of its reserves.
This brief from the U.S. Department of Energy (go down to the "oil" heading) spells out the evidence supporting the belief that Iraqi oil reserves are probably greater than currently known.
All this is fairly common knowledge. I believe one of your comrades-in-arms suggested I do a little research before posting. I had in fact done that research, and he was in fact dead wrong, but it was good advice nonetheless. Since I don't need it, I'll pass it on to you.
[ edited by msincognito on Feb 18, 2003 01:49 PM ]
posted on February 18, 2003 03:11:23 PM new
SO MISINCOGNITO, YOU'RE SAYING THAT MAYBE IRAQ IS BEING INVADED FOR OIL BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE US 20 MILLION BARRELS OF OIL A DAY? BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE MORE OIL RESERVES THAN SAUDIA ARABIA... NOT BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSIEN HAS PROVEN TIME AND AGAIN, IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY HE WILL USE ANY WEAPON AVAILABLE TO HIM TO KILL HIS ENEMIES.
ALRIGHTY THEN... NICE LITTLE WORLD THERE... WALT DISNEY DROP BY MUCH?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on February 18, 2003 03:16:18 PM new
"DISRESPECTING THOSE FINE CANADIAN SOLIDERS THAT DIED HELPING THE US... ONLY SOME SPINELESS WORM THAT NEVER STOOD FOR ANYTHING WOULD DO THAT..."
Yes, Twelvepole, no doubt, and you have done that very thing.
This was not merely a case of soldiers who "died helping the U.S.," (or, "THAT DIED HELPING THE US" ). These were soldiers who were killed by the U.S.
posted on February 18, 2003 03:18:04 PM new
Without doing any research on the internet doesn't the U.S. get most of its oil from 1. Venezuala 2. Canada and 3. Mexico?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 18, 2003 03:41:10 PM new
::SO MISINCOGNITO, YOU'RE SAYING THAT MAYBE IRAQ IS BEING INVADED FOR OIL BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE US 20 MILLION BARRELS OF OIL A DAY? BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE MORE OIL RESERVES THAN SAUDIA ARABIA... NOT BECAUSE SADDAM HUSSIEN HAS PROVEN TIME AND AGAIN, IF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY HE WILL USE ANY WEAPON AVAILABLE TO HIM TO KILL HIS ENEMIES. ::
The purpose of mine and MsI's responses were to your arguement that Bush could not possibly be after the oi l because of their current production levels. Don't twist the answer. You responded to the original arguement with faulty logic and we both pointed out were the fault in your logic exists.
posted on February 18, 2003 03:42:59 PM new
You know, I can't quite fathom this relentless insistence that there is only one given explanation for any particular action. I don't believe this action is all about oil. But I think oil was the deciding factor.
Let me 'splain it so you understand.
Saddam Hussein is a Very Bad Man.
Unfortunately for Saddam Hussein, he happens to be a Very Bad Man with Something the United States Wants.
Some people think it's kind of funny that the United States wants to hurt Saddam Hussein, who is not the only Very Bad Man, nor even the Worst Man, but simply the Very Bad Man With Something the United States Wants.
If the United States hurts the Very Bad Man badly enough, it can make the Very Bad Man go away. Then someone else can come, preferably a Very Nice Man who is friendly to the United States' Friends - especially those who sit on boards of directors with the President's Daddy or Uncle Dick Cheney. (A "board of directors" is a special kind of club for Friends. The President was allowed to sit on boards as long as he promised to be quiet and let the grownups talk.)
The Friends can then Help the Very Nice New Man develop his country's massive oil supplies. As long as the Very Nice Man cooperates on this - accepts the Right Kind of Help and says Thank You like a good boy, he can rest assured that the United States will keep its nose out of his other business, like whether the children are starving or the women stoned to death for wearing eyeliner.
Of course, there's also the question of whether Hussein gave money to other Bad Men called Al Quaida who came here and did horrible, terrible things. Well, as it turns out, he probably did. So he should really be punished for that ... to make an example for all the other countries who gave money to al Qaida. We're sure the example will straighten them out so quick that there's no point in embarassing them by saying that they should stop giving money to al Quaida.
He should also be punished for playing with things like anthrax and nuclear weapons after the United Nations told him not to. Because we're mostly probably completely sorta sure that he did.
(Mr. Kim Jong Il, will you please stop jumping up and down and waving your weapons of mass destruction? Yes, we see them. We're not dealing with you right now. Go have a cookie and come back when you've got Something the United States Wants.)
posted on February 18, 2003 04:28:03 PM new
Wow! That little tale reflects a condescending and arrogant attitude which overwhelms the humour if any was intended.
posted on February 18, 2003 06:12:36 PM new
>Without doing any research on the internet doesn't the U.S. get most of its oil from 1. Venezuala 2. Canada and 3. Mexico?
Actually, No.
1) Canada
3) Venzuala
?) Mexico
I recall a link from Helen that she graciously shared several times. I recalled how many people, myself included, were surprised that we get most of our oil from Canada! I recall that Venezuela was third and Mexico I can't recall where it came in at.
Let me tell you one thing about the Venezuela oil, though. California years ago banned it's sale, even refined, in the state. The reason is that much if not all of that country's oil is contaminated with sulfur. The Oil refineries do not get all of the sulfur out of the gasoline and other petroleum products (costs too much). In cars, the sulfur accumulates and mixes with water to become Sulfuric Acid which eats away at engine parts. Oregon tried to enact a similar piece of legislation, but it got blocked by folks who complained that it would hurt the automotive repair industry in Oregon! Did I mention that Oregonians vote overwhelmingly Republican in state elections?
posted on February 18, 2003 06:25:47 PM newDid I mention that Oregonians vote overwhelmingly Republican in state elections?
I don't believe that for a minute, but you are from there, so what do I know? I think WA is about as Liberal, ah I mean the voters are on the Democratic ticket the majority of the time
I wasn't around when Helen let us all know where the majority of our oil came from.
But thank you Canada
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on February 18, 2003 11:10:10 PM new
" Let me tell you one thing about the Venezuela oil, though. California years ago banned it's sale, even refined, in the state. The reason is that much if not all of that country's oil is contaminated with sulfur. The Oil refineries do not get all of the sulfur out of the gasoline and other petroleum products (costs too much). In cars, the sulfur accumulates and mixes with water to become Sulfuric Acid which eats away at engine parts"
Borillar,
1.All gas has sulfer in it.
2. gas burned in the cars engine turns into sulfur dioxide (S02)
this doesn't hurt the engine, it goes into the air
You may have been thinking of MTBE when you said CA banned it.
