posted on March 2, 2003 04:04:23 PM new
It's like I've said: it's a Done Deal. it doesn't matter what the world wants or Americans want, Bush is going to do whatever he has to do to Conquer the world/
Unfortunately, that requires evey dime possible. That means no money for domestic spending, little money for most government programs (except to keep the populus in control), and borrow, Borrow, BORROW until the America Drops Dead like a sponge that's been squeezed out of evey last drip possible.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:22:41 PM new
nearthesea,You said:
IOW will they think its a 'good thing' or will there be something else to b*tch about?
You mean like the economy,loss of 3 Million jobs and none being replaced?Or the trillions lost by the stock market,or being a Nation of debt,in the Trillions by Gov.spending,or etc.,etc.,.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:23:46 PM new
junquemama - You won't be hearing anything, until it's already begun.
IMO, we should have done this a year ago. Spending this time trying to appease everyone, get more allied support has proven to be a waste of time, money and energy and has had few positive resultss. All it's done is stress out our people and do even more damage to our economy, imo.
Many here stated their worries and concerns before we went into Afghanistan. But the 'before' part wasn't as long as this has been. This war is different and the unknown of going into any war is always unsettling to all of us. But our's is a great nation and we have the most powerful Armed Forces in the world. They're prepared.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:30:40 PM new
> but did anyone ever think that what if just WHAT IF, this war won't happen?
That's a pretty good question. One can only guess. Assumptions would have to be based upon the facts up to this date. Say that Saddam disarmed and complied with all UN Resolutions immediately and to allow UN inspectors complete unfettered access and to stay there and monitor his regime. Bush would have absolutely no reason to attack Iraq, would he?
If Saddam does this, Bush will have a Pyrrhic victory of sorts. He can crow that by surrounding Saddam with all of the military and threatened that entire nation with imminent death, he managed to get Saddam to back down. What Man of the World he is for that! What a Diplomat!
But Bush and his handlers can't allow this to happen. If Saddam did this, American could not get their hands on the Oil there, or put troops there as they intend on doing. Iraq is to be conquered at all costs and this would effectively hinder or end such designs. I think that they would have to cook up an "incident" to use like the Gulf of Tonkin incident or the Spanish Maine incident in order to conquer Iraq,
I guess that is what would happen then. Bush would cook up an "incident" and he'll rush in there before anyone can look over the evidence for fraud. It'll be a Done Deal and over with when some low-level person will get hung out to dry for misleading the American People over it.
No, it's a Done Deal no matter what Saddam does. Bush personally wants Saddam out in order to show off to his father. Bush's handlers want Iraq Oil to use for World Conquest. No Oil, no Conquest.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:34:08 PM new
I agree with Linda. Bush made a big mistake going to the UN. Dragging this thing out just builds anti-US support and it is hurting the economy.
I think Bush gambled and hoped that there would be a coup while we jump through the UN's hoops.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:38:31 PM new
LindaK,The war in Afghanistan is still going on,and to date,we have lost 900 soldiers.I saw the accounting the other day and thought I saved it.....Cotton pickin computor must have eaten it.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:45:30 PM new
Bush can't back down now. It's my belief that he did try to force Saddam to comply by continuing to put the pressure on him. And if that had worked, then yes I agree with Borillar that if Saddam had back down, due to these 'threats' Bush would have enjoyed [with good reason] crowing. He'd be entitled.
When we win the war, and Saddam is no longer in office, Bush will still have hundreds of thousands of people who believe he removed a great threat from our world and be glad he chose to have the balls to do what he did, even against the opposition.
posted on March 2, 2003 04:52:28 PM new
junquemama - I'll believe you saw it...no need to 'prove' the numbers to me.
There has never been a war where soldiers don't die. They go knowing they may be giving their lives for the best interests of our country.
I, too, wish we could suffer no loss of life. But that's not reality.
While many who post here see no benefit in what we did in Afghanistan, many Americans do. We disrupted their 'safe country' where they were becoming stronger and stronger, openly training and recruiting more terrorists. We disrupted some of their money sources. We are continuing to capture those top-level A-Q who have done the previous 'acts of war' against our nation. We are making a difference.
posted on March 2, 2003 05:08:40 PM new
Proof of the pudding....There have been no sucessful attacks on American soil, since the WTC. That could change tomorrow, but until then....
Something must be working!
PS I have to wonder why that appears to upset some?
[ edited by Tex1 on Mar 2, 2003 05:11 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2003 05:26:37 PM new
Yes Tex, you have to wonder why it does.
someone else, on another bb, totaly non auction one, put it very elequontly, so I won't copy what he said. But he was basically saying, that showing the strength (right now, all the deployments, military over there, geared up) is showing that we are serious. And that this 'show of strength' could work (and with N. Korea if need be) without a war. But, if it does need to be, we will do it.
But I agree, it should have been done long ago
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 2, 2003 05:27:48 PM new
Tex - I have asked myself that very same question many times [your P.S. question]. I've come to the conclusion that they would be speaking/acting totally different if a democratic President were doing exactly the same thing. It's their enormous hatred of Bush.
Notice the thread bones started? We captured one top A-Q terrorist, who planned the attack on the WTC towers and who has been on our FBIs most wanted list forever..it seems to me. Where they thrilled some top terrorist had been caught? No, only wanted to point out that 'we' didn't do it...that Pakistan is getting tired of us taking the credit...almost like it DID make them angry to admit that what Bush has been doing [pressing for other nations to join us in this war on these terrorists].....is showing results.
Sad state of afairs if you ask me. But you didn't....sorry.
posted on March 2, 2003 07:14:40 PM new
There is still the possibility things won't just go according to the script.
Iraq may use some thoughtful tactics and inflict substantial casualities on American troops. Nobody is prepared for that.
The Iraqies may hit Isreal and the Isrealis may hit back. Possibly even with nukes. And if they do the US would get all or some of the blame.
The Arab nations might come into it.
The Turks or the Iranians may get deeply involved trying to grab territory.
All sorts of possibilities still exist.
posted on March 2, 2003 07:17:21 PM new
From the Defence Department. Military deaths in Afghanistan & the Phillipines Since 9/11. Then count.
Operation Enduring Freedom
U.S. Army
Spc. Marc A. Anderson, 30, Brandon, Fla., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Sgt. Michael C. Barry, 29, Brandon, Fla., Feb. 1, 2003, Qatar
Spc. Curtis A. Carter, 25, Lafayette, La., February 27, 2002, Kuwait
Sgt. 1st Class Nathan R. Chapman, 31, San Antonio, Texas, January 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Spc. Brian M. Clemens, Indiana, Feb. 7, 2003, Kuwait
Sgt. Steven Checo, 22, New York, December 20, 2002, Afghanistan
Pfc. Matthew A. Commons, 21, Boulder City, Nev., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Brian T. Craig, 27, Houston, Texas, April 15, 2002, Afghanistan
Sgt. Bradley S. Crose, 22, Orange Park, Fla., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Master Sgt. Jefferson D. Davis, 39, Clarksville, Tenn., December 5, 2001, Afghanistan
Spc. Jason A. Disney, 21, Fallon, Nev., February 13, 2002, Afghanistan
Pvt. James H. Ebbers, 19, Bridgeview, Ill, October 14, 2002, Djibuoti, Africa
Spc. John J. Edmunds, 20, Cheyenne, Wyo., October 19, 2001, Pakistan
Sgt. Ryan D. Foraker, 31, Logan, Ohio, September 24, 2002, Guantanamo, Cuba.
Sgt. Gregory M. Frampton, 37, California, January 30, 2003, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Justin J. Galewski, 28, Olathe, Kan., April 15, 2002, Afghanistan
Chief Warrant Officer Thomas J. Gibbons, 31, Maryland, January 30, 2003, Afghanistan
Chief Warrant Officer Two Stanley L. Harriman, 34, Wade, N.C., March 2, 2002, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Daniel L. Kisling, Jr., 31 Missouri, January 30, 2003, Afghanistan
Pvt. Giovanny Maria, 19, New York, N.Y., November 29, 2001, Uzbekistan
Sgt. Jamie O. Maugans, 27, Wichita, Kan., April 15, 2002, Afghanistan
Chief Warrant Officer Mark S. O’Steen, 43, Alabama, January 30, 2003, Afghanistan
Spec. Pedro Pena, 35, Fla., November 7, 2002, Kuwait
Sgt. 1st Class Daniel H. Petithory, 32, Cheshire, Mass., December 5, 2001, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Brian C. Prosser, 28, Frazier Park, Calif., December 5, 2001, Afghanista
Sgt. 1st Class Daniel A. Romero, 30, Lafayette, Colo., April 15, 2002, Afghanistan
Sgt. 1st Class Christopher J. Speer, 28, Albuquerque, N.M., August 7, 2002, Afghanistan
Pfc. Kristofor T. Stonesifer, 28, Missoula, Mont., October 19, 2001, Pakistan
Sgt. Philip J. Svitak, 31, Joplin, Mo., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Sgt. 1st Class Peter P. Tycz II, 32, Tonawanda, N.Y., June 12, 2002, Afghanistan
Sgt. Gene A. Vance Jr., 38, Morgantown, W.V., May 19, 2002, Afghanistan
U.S. Navy
Chief Petty Officer Matthew J. Bourgeois, 35, Tallahassee, Fla., March 27, 2002, Afghanistan
Machinist’s Mate Fireman Apprentice Bryant L. Davis, 20, Chicago, Ill., November 7, 2001, Arabian Sea
Electrician’s Mate Fireman Apprentice Michael J. Jakes Jr., 20, Brooklyn, N.Y., December 4, 2001, Northern Arabian Sea
Engineman 1st Class Vincent Parker, 38, Preston, Miss., November 18, 2001, Persian Gulf
Aviation Boatswain’s Mate-Handling 1st Class Neil C. Roberts, 32, Woodland, Calif., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Electronics Technician 3rd Class Benjamin Johnson, 21, Rochester, N.Y., November 18, 2001, Persian Gulf
U.S. Air Force
Master Sgt. Evander E. Andrews, 36, Salon, Maine, October 10, 2001, Northern Arabian Peninsula
Tech. Sgt. John A. Chapman, 36, Waco, Texas, March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Tech. Sgt. Sean M. Corlew, 37, Thousand Oaks, Calif., June 12, 2002, Afghanistan
Senior Airman Jason D. Cunningham, 26, Camarillo, Calif., March 4, 2002, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Anissa A. Shero, 31, Grafton, W.Va., June 12, 2002, Afghanistan
U.S. Marine Corps
Capt. Matthew W. Bancroft, 29, Shasta, Calif., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Lance Cpl. Bryan P. Bertrand, 23, Coos Bay, Ore., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Gunnery Sgt. Stephen L. Bryson, 35, Montgomery, Ala., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Staff Sgt. Walter F. Cohee III, 26, Wicomico, Md., January 20, 2002, Afghanistan
Staff Sgt. Scott N. Germosen, 37, Queens, N.Y., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Sgt. Nathan P. Hays, 21, Lincoln, Wash., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Capt. Daniel G. McCollum, 29, Richland, S.C., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
Staff Sgt. Dwight J. Morgan, 24, Mendocino, Calif., January 20, 2002, Afghanistan
Lance Cpl. Antonio J. Sledd, 20, Tampa, Fla., October 8, 2002, Kuwait
Sgt. Jeannette L. Winters, 25, Du Page, Ill., January 9, 2002, Pakistan
CIA
Johnny Michael Spann, 32, Winfield, Ala.
Operation Enduring Freedom - Phillipines
U.S. Army
Spec. Thomas F. Allison, 22, Roy, Washington, February 21, 2002
Staff Sgt. James P. Dorrity, 37, Goldsboro, N.C., February 21, 2002
Chief Warrant Officer 2 Jody L. Egnor, 32, Middletown, Ohio, February 21, 2002
Maj. Curtis D. Feistner, 34, White Bear Lake, Minn., February 21, 2002
Sgt. Jeremy D. Foshee, 25, Pisgah, Ala., February 21, 2002
Staff Sgt. Kerry W. Frith, 37, Las Vegas, Nev., February 21, 2002
Sgt. 1st Class Mark Wayne Jackson, 40, of Glennie, Mich., Oct. 2, 2002
Capt. Bartt D. Owens, 31, Middletown, Ohio, February 21, 2002
Staff Sgt. Bruce A. Rushforth, Jr., 35, Middleboro, Mass., February 21, 2002
U.S. Air Force
Master Sgt. William L. McDaniel II, 29, Greenville, Ohio, February 21, 2002
Staff Sgt. Juan M. Ridout, 36, Maple Tree, Wash., February 21, 2002
posted on March 2, 2003 07:25:37 PM new
gravid - You're right, of course. As could have happened each and every time we've gone to war. Just as those who were scared the same thing would happen when we went into Afghanistan.
The military leaders know the dangers they face. They have made plans for every possible scenario. Could they have overlooked one? Sure they're human. I think we must look to our military's history and successes. But letting fear of the unknown keep one from doing what is necessary isn't going to bring about results.
Don't you remember reading/hearing binLaden's statements about how we are cowards? That's how they've judged our lack of action in the past. Wake-up call was Afghanistan.
posted on March 2, 2003 08:36:18 PM newThe military leaders know the dangers they face.
Yes, Linda they may, but do your political leaders?
I think the best and most well thought out analysis of the situation with respect to Iraq and North Korea that I've seen any poster make to date on any chatboard was Snakebait's posts yesterday. I can't do them just justice by posting extracts here but I do think they are important to read and am really interested in your thoughts after reading them.
Two of the posts are on this page at 12:02 pm and 10:41 pm and there is another post here on the following page.
Really scary.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Mar 2, 2003 08:39 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2003 08:52:33 PM new
Irene - I have saved those links and will read them in the early AM and then post my thoughts. It's almost 11:00 PM here and we always call our son at this time [there's a 4 hour time difference] and we don't want to miss him.
Yes, Linda they may, but do your political leaders? So, I'll answer this now, not having read the posts you speak of. They way it works in our country is that the military do whatever the commander-in-chief wants them to do. They serve him directly. BUT the president also has military advisors who he runs his thoughts/concerns by. They advise him of what they think is possible and what they don't believe can be achieved. The final decision rests with the President though. night...
posted on March 2, 2003 09:05:06 PM new
I also think that snakebait, whoever he may be, is very knowledgeable and very bright, Irene. I try to find time to read the political threads there, skimming for content.
posted on March 2, 2003 09:33:42 PM new
junquemama...
Not to make light here at all (and God Bless the souls of these brave men and women), but I counted 64 individuals lost on Fred's list.
If you happen to find that 900 count list again, please share it with us. Not doubting that you saw it...just would like to see it. We don't hear enough about those that have given their lives in this cause.
edited for spelling
[ edited by bones21 on Mar 2, 2003 09:34 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2003 09:39:32 PM new
bones21,I'll search for it,I just wish I could remember where I was looking at the time.I have a big file,may have over looked the title.If I can find it,I will post it.
The number surprized me.
posted on March 2, 2003 11:47:36 PM new
It's tedious to even try to broach such thoughts in here, Dan and junkma. I'm a little surprised to see that it may be worthwhile at OTWA as it seemed whenever I looked in there in the past that minova and another poster were met with the same sort of, err, party liners as here.
