posted on March 9, 2003 11:11:05 AM new
Hans Blix, who is charged with supervising and reporting on the inspection process in Iraq, conveniently failed to mention UNMOVIC's discovery of an Iraqi drone aircraft which violates UN Resolution 1441 when he told of Iraq's increased cooperation at the Security Council meeting on Friday.
The revelation surfaced in a 173 page single-spaced report he submitted later in the day.
These remote-controlled aircraft are capable of using sprayers for dispensing CB weapons.
Colin Powell cited US inteligence reports in noting the existence of these drones back in February.
Blix' objectivity is now more suspect than ever . . .
posted on March 9, 2003 01:37:17 PM new
I couldn't agree more. There was absolutely NO excuse not to have included that information in his verbal report. NO excuse. And it does make me wonder what other information they have seen, are aware of, that also hasn't been/wasn't reported to the full UN council.
It is only natural to question why he didn't consider that very important information that the entire UN membership should be aware of. To show that while Saddam's doing this slow, unimportant missile disarmament, he's busy producing more dangerous weapons.
posted on March 9, 2003 01:39:25 PM new
>Blix' objectivity is now more suspect than ever . . .
Blix's objectivity was always in question. He was far from the first pick. But because the first thirty or so picks were even MORE biased one way or another, those were all rejected as unsuitable. It eventually got down to Hans, who is not as smart a choice, but is certainly not as biased as better choices or as dumb as worse choices.
posted on March 9, 2003 02:42:54 PM new
It's pathetic that the Security Council justifies its languid enforcement of Resolution 1441 based on Blix' interpretation of what is significant.
How many un-declared missiles, warheads, VX, anthrax, and drones do inspections have to bring to light before Hans concludes the Iraqis will never come clean?
For a guy who claims he was planning to retire, Hans Blix sure acts like someone who's afraid he's going to be laid off soon . . .
posted on March 9, 2003 03:39:35 PM new
There's also been a difference in what the word 'immediate' means to them. Last Nov until now...to me...is not immediately.
posted on March 9, 2003 04:16:34 PM new
What I find funny about this whole UN Resolution 1441 thing is that all it states is that if WoMD are found, then the Security Council will meet. Period.
Here everyone is waving "UN Resolution 1441!" like a battle call. "Remember the Alamo!" LOL!
posted on March 9, 2003 04:25:15 PM new
In defence of Blix or any UN inspector think about what they are up against. Your inspections, reports, and interpretations of what Hussein is doing could lead to war.
This responsibility should have never been placed on the UN inspectors. There should be no debate on what the inspectors report or what they do not report. The bottom line, and what the US has been saying all along- it is not up to the UN inspectors to search for anything or find a reason for war, they are there only to observe and verify that the weapons are reported and destroyed. After 12 years there is ample evidence that weapons have not been reported or destroyed, so it is time to do it by force. The inspection reports are red herrings.
Until several members of the UN SC take their heads out of their a**es, I doubt any inspector is going voluntarily and knowingly provide evidence that leads the Un hold outs to war.
posted on March 9, 2003 05:25:13 PM new
Of course you're right Reamond. But if they are giving verbal reports they should at least be held responsible to give ALL the facts they've been made aware of.
posted on March 9, 2003 06:13:40 PM new
Wow, are you confused, Borillar!
Read up, anyone else who isn't clear what the resolution says.
Text of UN Security Council Resolution on Iraq: November 8, 2002
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America: draft resolution
[Adopted as Resolution 1441 at Security Council meeting 4644, 8 November 2002]
The Security Council,
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,
Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,
Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,
Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,
Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,
Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,
Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,
Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council’s repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,
Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,
Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,
Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,
Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions,
Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary-General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq’s continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions,
Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter,
Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States,
Commending the Secretary-General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary-General for their efforts in this regard,
Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,
Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,
1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq’s failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);
2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;
3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;
4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq’s obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and 12 below;
5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC’s or the IAEA’s choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi Government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;
6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq;
7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq, to facilitate their work in Iraq:
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available;
– All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998);
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq’s chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;
– Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient United Nations security guards;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles;
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and
– UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;
8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;
9. Requests the Secretary-General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;
11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director-General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;
12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;
13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;
posted on March 9, 2003 06:28:49 PM new
for example...
12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;
posted on March 9, 2003 06:35:53 PM new
Read 12 & 13 together, folks.
13 is there, independent of the other points, to give teeth to the resolution by anyone (US & England, as usual)with the resolve to enforce what was set in motion in 1991.
Remember, the past 12 years have been a cease-fire with structured terms.
Iraq has continuosly violated the terms of that cease-fire
Helen and Borillar, you two are obviously very intelligent and articulate. I always wonder what it would take to convince you of the need to enforce 1441.
posted on March 9, 2003 06:44:01 PM new
By the way, Borillar, don't gloat too soon.
I didn't strengthen your position - you attempted to simplify the resolution down to "convening meetings"
It is much more than that.
Meetings have been the weakest part of the resolution. 12 years of meetings didn't put us in position to have proof that the Iraqis continue to flaunt their obligations.
The threat of enforcement militarily HAS.
posted on March 9, 2003 08:10:38 PM new
fermcrestmotel, UN Resolution 1441 specifies under what authority they have to make this resolution; it specifies what grieiveances it wishes to issue; it specifies by what Right it has to go make these new inspections; and finally, what will happen if Iraq is indeed found to be inmaterial breech; i.e. "12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;"
And my point is that this Bush Adminstration is counting upon the laziness of Americans to not even bother to read what the rsolution says, what it does, and what will come about if there is evidence of WoMD. The Bush Adminsitration, on tyhe other hand and the Talking Heads on TV and Radio Entertainment Shows, keep rasing up UN Resolution like it is some sort of Battle Flag when it really is nothing of the sort. By your copying and pasting it to this forum, where everyone can esily see for themselves what it says and doesn't say, it plays right into what I said that it does. On the other hand, it makes you look like you're not reading what you're posting.
posted on March 10, 2003 07:01:10 AM new
Borillar -
First of all, let's look at what you edited out of your initial response -
"On the other hand, it makes you look like a moron."
(AW sends the original response to those wishing to be emailed with subsequent posts)
Name calling is a hallmark of those caught up in naysaying. It doesn't reflect a studied position, only an emotional outburst. In an earlier post in this thread, I complimented you on your intelligence and articulate comments. That was my studied position.
Let's face it, Borillar - neither you nor I are morons; we have opponent viewpoints and are entitled to voice them, something which separates a free society from regimes such as Saddam's.
As to your point that posting the resolution makes me "look like a moron" or shows that I didn't read what I posted, I suggest that you read Article 12 again. It says the Council should meet again to "consider" issues as they are reported. There is no limitation as to what may transpire subsequent to such meetings.
The US and Britain constructed a resolution (unanimously adopted by the Security Council)which publicly states facts, infractions, grievances, and structure for inspections.
Article 13 reminds all parties that there could be serious consequences for continued defiance by Iraq.
I am happy that posting the resolution has exposed it to people unfamiliar with its wording.
posted on March 10, 2003 07:06:16 AM new
The resolution forbids devices 'designed to' deliver chemicals. It doesn't mean every radio controlled airplane in the world.
posted on March 10, 2003 07:20:48 AM new
According to Resolution 1441, drones are covered under the following verbage:
"and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles"
That is why Dr. Blix was obligated to report the discovery of an un-declared Iraqi drone program, as he did in his 173 page report distributed after he spoke to the Security Council last Friday.
If these drones do in fact have a range in the area of 500 km, when coupled with airborne delivery sytems still unaccounted for from previous inspections, they are a serious threat not only to surrounding countries, but to US troops.
posted on March 10, 2003 09:45:49 AM new
fermcrestmotel, if you can't respect the EDIT function, then why bother to have one here at all? If you must know -- since your Enquiring Mind had to know, I was trying to use the word with a few more words in order to explain that it would make you look like a moron to others for not reading through the material that you were presenting (look up the word MORON in the dictionary). On second reading, I realized that there was likely to be no way of successfully conveying that message across to you without is being seen as an insult. I therefore changed the ending of that post.
As for you estimation of my edited post, I never said that I thought that you are or ever were a moron. Seeing as to the lengths that you went to not just go read what I had previously written and changed my mind about, but also decided to publish said deletion in public and then put words into my mouth that I never wrote or edited, then NOW I think that you are a complete moron!
posted on March 10, 2003 09:52:09 AM new
And for those of you who do not want to see a real blood bath in the Persian Gulf, think about this- it was recently reported Iran will have nuclear weapons sooner than anyone expected.
Iran and Iraq are mortal enemies. The exchange of WOMDs between these coutries would be devastatiing and result in massive loss of life. This will be a far worse situation than Pakistan/India because both Iraq and Iraq are dictatorships.
Taking Hussein and his weapons out now could be saving countless millions of lives. The sooner we can stop Hussein, the sooner we will be on the ground and ready to deal with Iran. Issues of WOMDs with Iran can be resolved peacefully provided Iraq is de-fanged. There is no way Iran will cease weapons development as long as Hussein and his weapons are next door.
This is part of the "destabilizing" effect of Iraq maintaining and developing these weapons.
If the world doesn't stand firm and act against Iraq now, the middle east tinder box will go up, and the US as well as other Western coutries will also be targets.
posted on March 10, 2003 10:55:55 AM new
reamond,We are the cause of that tinder box fixing to ignite.Our President told the world,of his axis of evil list, and more names to be added later.
Now you expect them to all lay down, and let us take them over?
If it were reversed,we would defend our homeland,regardless of political differences.
We are the agressors in this action and we do not have the troops, to back up all the conflicts we are fixing to start.Waiting 12 years because a conflict wasnt settled, is not a reason for war.We can jack with Saddam and keep him jumping,once we go into bagdad and destroy the City and lives who have no choices in the matter,we have changed the world forever.
This action will give the cells living in our Country an excuse to carry out their missions.And once again we dont have the troops here at home to protect us.We are cutting our own throats in this matter.
posted on March 10, 2003 11:20:29 AM new
You will have to re-write history to blame the US for the tender box situastion and we are not igniting it.
We are not the agressors, and we have enough troops.
Where do you lefty peaceniks get this "destroy" cities stuff ?
We liberated Kuwait with little damage to cities or civilians, as well as bombing Bagdad with few civilian casualities. Everybody said Afghanistan would be a civilian bloodbath.
And let me give you another piece of news- any "cells" in the US will act regardless of what we do, and besides, who wants to live like a coward and not go after these regimes because you're afraid of what the terrorists might do.
Sounds like the terrorists have already beat you and you're ready to surrender.
posted on March 10, 2003 12:21:59 PM new
The Drone plane that was found was explained to be an Air Mail transportation unit. The "Cluster Bomb" is nothing more then a "Bop-a-mole" carnival game. It was explained to Blix. That's why it wasn't of much importance.
Amen,
These things are so way to explain away.
Reverend Colin
posted on March 10, 2003 12:25:24 PM new
Sticks and stones, Borillar - tsk, tsk.
I appreciate the dictionary link - here it is for anyone who might think the word "moron" is anything other than offensive the way you used it.
moron
SYLLABICATION: mo·ron
PRONUNCIATION: môrn, mr-
NOUN: 1. A stupid person; a dolt. 2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
Since none of these criteria are applicable to me, you have used the word incorrectly. It's right there for everyone to read.
As to respecting the EDIT function, anyone who received the update through AW read your response to my posting of Resolution 1441. As I stated earlier, name-calling is an emotional outburst. In the future I suggest you remember that before you hit the "post reply" button.
The post you made regarding Resolution 1441 -
"WhatI find funny about this whole UN Resolution 1441 thing is that all it states is that if WoMD are found, then the Security Council will meet. Period."
- was so far from reality, I took exception to it. 1441 states many more things, as I mentioned in an earlier post.
Finally, I do not put words in your mouth, Borillar. I have your own quotes to respond with . . .
posted on March 10, 2003 12:49:25 PM new
Hi REAMOND -
You are 100% correct - the US doesn't need UN authorization to act.
As I recall, only the US was attacked by Al-Qaida on 9/11, not the other Security Council member states.
After the unspeakable acts perpetrated on our country that day, only one Arab country failed to condemn the attacks.
You guessed it - Saddam's Iraq.
I was just going to say the same thing. You beat me to it!