posted on March 19, 2003 05:04:31 AM new
How happy you must be yeager, that Israel is so 'well' represented in America.
That's exactly what America's forefathers fought for.
posted on March 19, 2003 12:07:58 PM new
I wonder how cocky all of you would still be if she was your daughter? I also wonder, if an Iraeli protestor was murdered in the same fashion on U.S. soil, if they would call their own an idiot.
I don't mean to be rude, but some of you need to up your compassion meds.
posted on March 19, 2003 12:23:00 PM new
Some of these people, Kraftdinner, don't take meds because they're on strings... operated by someone whose goal is to destroy this board. That's my opinion. LOL!
posted on March 19, 2003 12:38:20 PM new
First of all, "my" daughter would of been smart enough not to stand in front of a bulldozer...or on it...
Second of all she wouldn't of been over there supporting a bunch of terrorists...
Third, if she did die for something that she believed in; and was not just doing something stupid, then I would just bring her home and let the grieving begin.
So Helen, once again you speaketh out thy asseth... somone trying to destroy these boards... not hardly, but would be nice if you and others would post some rational threads and not ones just merely to troll for your inane posts...
So what is position on Abortion Helen? I am going to keep asking you this until you answer... I think I know, just want to be sure... Me? I am for abortion... but then I am for the war also... death is death, no matter how you look at it.
I am not a hypocrite about such things... I also support the death penalty...
I never did see an viable solutions come from you or other peaceniks, not even cowardbounty can offer solutions, just more crying and complaining, like the saying goes, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem...
So how would you keep me and mine safe and have no more bloodshed on this land of ours?
What is your solution to keep Saddam from supplying terrorist groups?
What is your solution to show the World we are strong and not a weak nation to be trifled with?
posted on March 19, 2003 01:24:42 PM new
Being a canadian KD I understand your lack of understanding...
However, my point was that it seems like these anti-war protestors are pretty damn picky about "death" seems very hypocritical to me...
This young girl took it upon herself to go to someplace that death is almost an everyday occurance, tearing down these terrorist holdouts is not only logical, but good strategy, for someone to stand in front of a bulldozer, climb on the blade and then die is the usual resoult in such foolishness.
Unless you have driven that size bulldozer, with a cage over the seat, then come and tell me that driver had clear vision... not hardly.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on March 19, 2003 01:49:53 PM new
I understand your point Twelvepole. You think this young girl was stupid, ie: Standing in front of a bulldozer = Idiocy. Add in that she was trying to protect terrorists and you get a real stupid idiot. The problem is that the driver DID see her and chose to kill her. Another is that nowhere has it been proven that she was trying to protect any terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists, you know. She was unarmed, probably weighed 100 pounds and was killed by a decision made by the driver. The idiot in this scenerio is the driver, but I respect your opinion if you see it differently.
posted on March 19, 2003 01:55:57 PM new
ANOTHER STUPID PROTESTER BITES THE DUST. You know, if this war lasts very long, there won't be too many of these idiots left.
posted on March 19, 2003 02:16:51 PM new
>>The idiot in this scenerio is the driver<<
Let's see. The driver is in an armored vehicle knocking down a building that is being used by snipers. He had the choice of:
-sitting in the tractor in 100 degrees and roasting to death
-stepping out of the tractor and getting shot by a sniper. The girl of course was safe because neither arabs nor Israelis are going to shoot her. The Israelis won't because they're not cold-blooded killers and the Arabs won't because it would make for bad press.
-turning around and going home and letting a bunch of stupid Americans control another government's policy (not to mention the lives that would be lost when the snipers come back to the building and resume shooting at Israelis)
-continue moving the tractor and assume that the stupid girl had enough brains to get out of the way. A tractor doesn't exactly move at 100 miles an hour.
The only stupid decision the driver made was giving her credit for more brains than she actually had.
By the way, when American tanks roll on Iraq, do you think if some idiot girl runs around on the border, the tanks will turn around and go home?
posted on March 19, 2003 02:35:17 PM newBy the way, when American tanks roll on Iraq, do you think if some idiot girl runs around on the border, the tanks will turn around and go home?
I would expect the American tank to stop and question her IQ later. LOL
Helen
Hi yisgood! I used to discuss paypal with you three years ago on ebay outlook. My name was HJW then.
posted on March 19, 2003 03:28:12 PM new
Yisgood, your points - roasting to death, being shot at, etc., don't add up to making the choice of killing a person with heavy machinery. Doing this to a protestor makes that person no different than the 'snipers' he's after.
Helen, that article made me feel sad, that a young girl, with that much insight & selflessness, had to die in such a horrible way.
[ edited by kraftdinner on Mar 19, 2003 03:47 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2003 03:51:06 PM new
Yes it does KD, he was the winner, she was the loser...
For all you anti-war protestors, she didn't belong there, damn it's funny how you can say we don't belong in Iraq and out the other side of your face say she was doing something good...
I hope to God my life never depends on you people making a decison about it...
posted on March 19, 2003 03:59:55 PM new
The difference is that she was trying to prevent destruction in Palestine while the bush administration is trying to destroy Iraq.
posted on March 19, 2003 04:01:20 PM new
A person that chooses to kill another person is no winner Twelvepole. As far as not belonging there, what do you mean by that?
posted on March 19, 2003 04:28:19 PM new
hjw, you say you do not like killing (your comments above; the death sentence)
Then I see you feel for the Palestinians and this young girl who was killed.
(btw, just thought, now why were not the other Palestinians helping this girl? where were the rest of the community, why weren't they out standing in front of the bulldozer with her, and who the heck was taking the picture at a safe distance??)
Anyway, since you do not like killing (I do not either) do you think its wrong when the PLO and suicide bombers go into Israel and kill children, adults and the elderly? or is it somehow different then?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
Who is destroying this board? Could the answer be anyone who has continual and clear thoughts that are based on common sense, logic and is willing to stick to them? Please, respond. What does destroying this board mean. I don't think you have enough courage to answer this question. BTW, this question is for Helen to answer, since she made the statement.
As I said in my earlier post, my dad had a bulldozer when I was a child, under 10 years old. We were taught to stay away from it when it was running. Most people also teach their child not to play around a lawn mower when it's running.
Let's re-create the bulldozer scene. I think it would be safe to say it didn't pop out of thin air. It was very likely hauled there with a truck on a trailer. The operator started the engine. In the fact it would have a large, powerful diesel engine, it would very loud. The operator backed it off the trailer and began towards his work site. In the fact that bulldozers are made to push heavy loads, they are mechanically geared for power, and not for speed. I would think it's safe to say that the bulldozer's maximum speed would be about 5 mph.
So now we have a very large, and very loud bulldozer slowly moving toward it's work site. Let's say it may have been 300 feet away. The noisy engine and the sounds of the heavy steel tracks that flop as they go around the gears could be plainly heard. Now it's 200 feet away, and the noise is getting louder. Now it's 100 feet away, getting louder and louder. Now it's 50 feet away. Twenty five feet away. Ten feet away. Five feet away.
Helen, at what point would YOUR common sense tell you, it's time to get out of the way.
I will be waiting for you exact answer. How many feet? Five, 10, 25, how many feet. Please don't answer with the line she was defending her ideas. We already know that. How many feet?
Do you have enough courage to answer this question?
posted on March 19, 2003 04:50:28 PM new
yeager, I didn't read where she had said someone is trying to destroy this board?
I don't get that one
Of course. We never owned, nor have I spent much time around bulldozers, but we did have a John Deere farm tractor, lemmee tell you, my kids learned early they had to stay AWAY from that thing, and that was only a tractor
I still want to know where the rest of the Palestinians she was with earlier? Where were any of these people that want to save their 'land' and buildings and their own people, where the heck were they?!? Leaving the whole 'saving' thing to a 23 year old!?
Art Bell Retired! George Noory is on late night coasttocoastam.com
posted on March 19, 2003 05:02:35 PM new
Helen says in the fourth post on the page...
Some of these people, Kraftdinner, don't take meds because they're on strings... operated by someone whose goal is to destroy this board. That's my opinion. LOL!
posted on March 19, 2003 05:05:08 PM new
LoL Nearthesea,,,, Now you are calling me hjw, while recently you were calling me Helenjw and then Helen. Since we have been here three years at least, why don't you just call me Helen.
Your first question about the location of the Palestinians and the photographer is a very good one. I would imagine that the Palestinians are afraid of being shot if they interfere with the bulldozing operation.
I am curious about the photographs too, as I indicated in the thread yesterday. But twinsoft thought the one being discussed was legit. I'm not a professional photographer but I did take a few classes and learned how easily a photo can be manipulated. You can see that in PC photo programs. I certainly wouldn't leap to believe in anything that I see in a photo...especially from some sites on the internet.
I've also stated several times that I think that both the Palestinian terrorists and the Israel terrorists are wrong. The only difference is that Israel has better weapons and as a result, their counter terrorism results in more deaths.
posted on March 19, 2003 05:13:15 PM new
Yeager, a legend in your own mind.
The whole world resents Israel and USA, and all they do is feed the world more justification.
What do these 2 countries have in common? The neo-cons that’s what.
Are you stupid or just deceitful, will nobody here on the neo-right acknowledge that the Jewish lobby is even represented in the PNAC?
We're talking, 'balance of power' here.
“US promises Israel $2.16 billion military aid 2004,” Reuters, 21 November 2002
‘AGENDA’ which causes the suffering of Palestinian children http://www.palestinemonitor.org/gallery/children2.htm
Why give social welfare aid to Americans when you can give it to Israel
Here are some stats’ to show where your allegiances lay.
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/US_Aid_to_Israel.htm
A BREAKDOWN OF UNITED STATES AID TO ISRAEL
Financial Aid
The Israeli government is the largest recipient of US financial aid in the world, receiving over one-third of total US aid to foreign countries4, even though Israel’s population comprises just .001% of the world’s population and has one the world’s higher per capita incomes.
 Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).5
 The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.
 Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.6
 Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.
 In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
You appear to think that I was referring to you and that is not the case. It doesn't take courage for me to answer a question yeager. That part of your comment, I don't understand.
I posted a news article and an article that the girl wrote before her death. I also questioned the possibility that she was burning a U.S flag. Other than that, I don't know what you are concerned about. Will you post the words that I said that you are so upset about. Then I will try to answer.
I didn't get involved in the guilt or innocence of the driver. I am very sad that she was killed whether it was an accident or not. Her intentions were good in my opinion.
"I thought that most college students struggled for money, worked part time, or full time and had no extra time for things such as this. Who paid for this trip, the lodging and other related things? Are they just a bunch of rich spoiled brats that had nothing better to do?"
And I answered...
I don't know her financial circumstances. I certainly don't understand how they relate to her political choice to protest against what she perceives as oppression against the people of Palestine. I wonder if you would feel so resentful if she had been protesting against Palestine?
To challenge, debate and oppose what we perceive as wrong is admirable in my opinion and we should not label those people who do so "boobs or idiots". "Boobs and idots" usually sit on the sideline and keep their mouth shut.
I placed a very clear question for her to answer. Helen's belief is that his girl is some kind of hero. She died for a "cause".
I support the idea that she (the girl) was lacking common sense, regardless of whether she died for a cause. Helen disagrees with that idea and believes the girl died for only for the cause. I asked Helen to demonstrate in her view, if she was in the same position, WHEN would she use HER common sense.
She, of course, posted another completely unrelated answer to the question. She side stepped the issue in the fact if she answered the question, she would have egg on her face. Answering the question would cause others to see that Helen actually believes the girl lacked common sense. If Helen had common sense and was able to get out of the way of the bulldozer, then why shouldn't the girl had the same common sense.
