Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 11:57:32 AM new
Links to articles about Mexican labor exploitation
Website for maquila owners, investors and suppliers -- maquiladoras directory -- See how easily profits move across the border from Mexico to U.S.!
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 17, 2003 01:14:46 PM new
NAFTA Helen, Mexico jumped on that quicker than swigging a shot of Tequila...
They have no one to blame but themselves, but it seems like people here in the US once again feel we should allow criminal actvity run ramapant along our borders
Mlecher please leave your and dave's social life out of this...
Start a new topic if you want
Edited: I don't know if Helen drinks Tequila or not... ( betting she can shoot with the best though)
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 17, 2003 01:32 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 01:23:31 PM new
LOL!
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 02:50:09 PM new
Helem - you are aware that your web link on the exploitation is from an extrememist group and not representative of the opinions of most Mexicans right?
The biggest arguement in Mexico against NAFTA right now is from the agricultural community which is suffering more from drought conditions than from imports but lobbying (and failing) for higher tarrifs. They are being appeased by way of government subsidies courtesy of a windfall from oil income this year.
Manufacturing is not crying out because of exploitation of the workers anywhere near as much as the complete shut down of dozens of maquiladoras due to the lump in the american economy which is reducing consumer spending and the demand for the products being made. There is an outcry that many of the owners are not holding up to requirments that workers laid off or fired due to shut down be paid a severance of 1 days pay for every month worked but I have not read of other problems.
I do believe that american companies could do wonders for the communities they are depedning on for their manufacturing if the raised their wages but in terms of out and out exploitation... most are paying the going wage in their communities and providing much needed employment so I don't think that the exploitation is quite as bad as the site you linked to would lead one to believe.
[ edited by neonmania on May 17, 2003 02:50 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 03:15:59 PM new
Helem - you are aware that your web link on the exploitation is from an extrememist group and not representative of the opinions of most Mexicans right?
Yes, I am, Neon. If you read the title that I gave the link, you will see that I referred to it as, "Website for maquila owners, investors and suppliers -- maquiladoras directory -- See how easily profits move across the border from Mexico to U.S.!"
What else would that be but a group not representative of most Mexicans!!!
It's clear why I posted that link.
Good grief.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on May 17, 2003 03:35 PM ]
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 03:22:42 PM new
I was not referring to the second link Helen - I was eferring to the first one... the one that uses this description...
Maquila Master is a website oriented to maquila owners, investors and suppliers. Their supreme lack of all sense of shame is most evident in their self-descriptions at the maquiladoras directory. Worth a visit.
to describe the second one.
I was also referring to the attitude and opinions of the first site - not the owners of the companies represented on the second one.
Good Grief yourself Helen, don't be dense, you knew exactly what I was refering to.
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Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 03:41:32 PM new
neonmania.
"Dense" would better describe you, neon, if you can't understand why I posted those links.
Why don't you focus more attention on your own posts. Your spelling, for example could use a little improvement.
Helem...............Helen
arguement.........argument
tarrifs................tariffs
requirments.......requirements
depedning.........depending
And "American" is capitalized.
LOL!
Helen
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 04:08:22 PM new
Aren't you the one who excuses their edits due to typos? Sorry Helen - not a perfect typist - now can we return to the subject hand or were you trying to turn this away from topics and into a war of insults. Sorry - I'm into the topics.
Since you are obviously so opposed to US manufacturing in Mexico - what alternative employment options would you suggest?
[ edited by neonmania on May 17, 2003 04:18 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 04:20:15 PM new
Neon,
You started the insults. Try talking to yourself again - for awhile.
Helen
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 04:30:41 PM new
So does this mean that you don't have any alternative employment suggestions?
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Helenjw
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posted on May 17, 2003 04:40:47 PM new
Not to discuss with you.
~later
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 04:45:16 PM new
ROFL!
Reminds me of the kids that take their ball and go home when they can't keep up.
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 17, 2003 05:10:20 PM new
Why should the US provide alternative employment for Mexicans, they are the ones who wanted NAFTA and the US companies to come down there... it has worked too all the profits remain here in the US and all the work is done in Mexico... yep NAFTA is a real boon for both countries.
I will say it again, we should force Mexico to handle their border problems.
Yes Neon I said FORCE...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 05:50:41 PM new
Twelve - don't jump in out of context. Helens links are to a group that resent the US manuafacters using NAFTA an lower wages in Mexico to increase their profit margins. I was not asking what alterntive forms of employmet the US government should offer but rather what she felt that the people that are feeding their families and keeping a roof over their head by working in these factories should do if these groups had their way...
I've heard you say FORCE time and time again. Once again I ask how exactly you think you will make that happen?
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 17, 2003 06:01:18 PM new
One way is to just shut the border... no products come in without heavy tarrifs
Another is to shut off any economic aid we now provide...
How long before Fox and company get the hint?
I believe that if NAFTA would of had a built in wage for the Mexican employees there would be less trouble now, but of course I wonder how many companies would of moved down there...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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davebraun
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posted on May 17, 2003 07:15:27 PM new
NAFTA was drafted with the intention of providing a low cost labor force that could be exploited by the major companies who lobbied for NAFTA. As these organizations financially sponsor various candidates they get their way.
Additionally as most of the countries where the manufacturing takes place have little or no environmental regulations and the few regulations they have are not enforced. The multinational conglomerates are able to dump more toxins into the environment lowering production costs and polluting to an incredible extent. The polluted waste waters of TJ have made the waters as far north as Santa Barbara hazardous.
As to why we should provide employment for Mexican nationals simply without their labor in many industries we would endure financial losses. There would be little or no agricultural industry in this country as there is no domestic workforce interested in pursuing the vocation.
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hibbertst
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posted on May 17, 2003 08:50:56 PM new
U.S. business has always depended heavily on cheap foreign labor. Without both slave labor and European immigrant workers, the U.S. could not have become the wealthy industrialized leader of the 19th century. The railroads were built largely by Chinese immigrants, bridges and buildings by Europeans. Later huge southwestern ranches were staffed mostly by Mexicans and black Africans. Southern plantations depended upon unwilling immigrants to provide cheap labor. Without this forced labor plantations could not survive. Large-scale agricultural production still depends on Mexican workers.
As long as we have a rich country in the North and severe poverty and repression in Latin America, people are going to flee to the U.S. looking for work to feed themselves and their families, just as millions of Germans, Greeks, Italians, Jews, Irish, Poles, and Russians have done in the past. Among the issues not reported in the media is the fact that the largest populations of undocumented persons in the U.S. today are Canadians, Poles, Irish, and Russians, not Mexicans. These persons are seldom pursued by the INS.
Mexicans are not alien to Texas and southern California, WASPS are.
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 09:00:06 PM new
:: One way is to just shut the border... no products come in without heavy tarrifs ::
Not going to happen fpr the simple reason that the manufacturing lobby will spread a lot of money around to make sure it doesn't. Too muc of what is coming in is coming to US based manufacturers. It is either thier product or components used in their products and the high tarifs will know their margins off
::Another is to shut off any economic aid we now provide... ::
And then lose the latino vote and any type of favorable pricing you may currently be recieving on oil from one of your top three suppliers. Of course, If I am Fox and you decide you want to play hardball, I also decide that your customs and DEA agents might not get tipped off quite so often either for a couple weeks - but I'm kinda bitchy that way.
[ edited by neonmania on May 17, 2003 09:00 PM ]
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 09:06:19 PM new
::The polluted waste waters of TJ have made the waters as far north as Santa Barbara hazardous. ::
Dave - they recently concluded a study on the pollution from the Tijuana River and discovered that most of it is originating not from industry, but rather from run off and flooding in residential areas with substandard or in many cases non-existant sewage systems. TJs pupulation is growing faster than its builders or public works departments can handle. (of course there is no a whole new problem looming on the horizon - it's been forcasted that they will be out of water in 7-10 years)
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 17, 2003 09:27:26 PM new
Neon you give all kinds of excuses why Mexico is such a sh*tty country, but the fact is their government is spineless and is depending on US dollars to bail thier a$$es out...
TJ sewage has bee like that for YEARS, why haven't they done anything?
Because it hasn't been in their best interests... they sure did fix up ave Revolution and all the Hotels in a hurry though... in 1979 part of Ave Revolution was dirt...
WOW, running out of water... better get that desalnization plant going...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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neonmania
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posted on May 17, 2003 10:27:18 PM new
Twelve - what excuses have I given? I believe in post in thepast week I mentioned that part of the surplus of income from oil sales this past quarter was going out to local municipalities repair and build roads, and utilities. The problems that existed 5 years ago in Tijuana have been fixed. What exists now is a result of a city/area that is being inundated with new people from central Mexico that are coming fo the percieved betterliving, jobs, etc. They are coming and settling faster than sewage systems can be laid. Massive replacement and repair efforts are going on. It's not a matter of complacency in this case, there just is not enough time of budget from utilities to be able to safely sustain the growth level (almost 7% last year).
Are a lot of the problems due to misappropriation of funds and rampant corruption? Probably.
I'm curious about one thing - can our south Texas posters tell me if Juarez is encountering the same types of problems?
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bear1949
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posted on May 19, 2003 07:42:12 AM new
What all these PRO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT protesters STILL fail to admit is THEY ARE ILLEGALS. They are criminals nothing more.
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 19, 2003 11:38:26 PM new
So true Bear, so True
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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