gravid
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posted on July 21, 2003 06:25:13 PM new
I might add - If I went in a restaurant and put a hunk of tire on my table and set it on fire and refused to put it out because I enjoy it they'd think me a mental case.
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profe51
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posted on July 21, 2003 06:58:45 PM new
Tobacco subsidies should be removed and the farmers no longer supported by tax dollars for growing tobacco..
Agree. I don't like farm/ranch subsidies for anything. We don't subsidize most businesses directly, why farms and ranches?
edited because I realized my mistake. A commodity is an agricultural product which can be processed for resale.
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
[ edited by profe51 on Jul 21, 2003 07:01 PM ]
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neroter12
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posted on July 21, 2003 09:00:03 PM new
Just saw a news show where they claimed that the increasing bigger risk than even smoking is FAT, i.e, cholestrol, etc. because of the damage it does to the heart, arteries and the diabetes factor. It stated that if you asked what was the biggest fatality for women; most people would say breast cancer but heart failure #1 cause. I guess smoking only adds to that end.
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kiara
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posted on July 21, 2003 11:48:50 PM new
I treat them very well for the most part...
twelvepole, suddenly after all these years you have employees? LOL
So tell me, how's that lemonade stand venture working out this summer? I agree, those kids should not be smoking. 
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 22, 2003 04:40:10 AM new
Coming from you Kiara ( I want to keep my board life private from my real life) Those comments are not necessary and that is all I will say about my business.
At least, unlike you, I don't come here and talk about my B&M store and then get upset when someone compares your real life to your board life.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 22, 2003 04:41 AM ]
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 22, 2003 04:48:43 AM new
why farms and ranches
Because they were closing up by the thousands because they couldn't pay the bills at the prices it cost to farm.
But you are right we shouldn't subsidise anything, it works or it doesn't.
Tobacco definately should be stopped and I have written my congressman about that.
I encourage all of you that are against smoking to write your local and federal government officials... may not get much done now, but eventually it will.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 22, 2003 04:50 AM ]
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gravid
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posted on July 22, 2003 05:48:21 AM new
You can pass laws and regulations no end, but just like (other) drugs if they are accepted people will use it.
What matters more is if someone doesn't get invited to a family gathering because he is the only one who smokes and they don't want the hassle of breathing his crap or argueing about why he should go outside.
No smokers get invited to my home so they can't whip one out and say "You don't mind do you?"
If you say yes I mind then all the civility is gone from the visit.
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kiara
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posted on July 22, 2003 07:55:36 AM new
At least, unlike you, I don't come here and talk about my B&M store and then get upset when someone compares your real life to your board life.
I've mentioned that I have a B&M as well as other ventures. I have never gone into detail about it. You are the only one that tried to compare it to my board life and I didn't get upset, I considered the source.
Recently you said you were worse in RL than on the boards and then the other day in the Outlook when you were bragging about size and mooning other posters I did comment on the teenage boy. Now suddenly to recover your status, you claim to run a biz? LOL
Back to the original topic, someone very close to me smokes but he smokes outside no matter where he goes. What my friends and relatives do is their business.
And what my employees do on their own time is their business as long as it doesn't affect my workspace or their job efficiency.
I find many perfumes and aftershaves much more offensive than the lingering odor of smoke. I can easily tell if someone has not bathed in awhile, especially now when the weather is hot and people sweat.
Then again, a man who showers regularly and works up a healthy sweat over certain activities can smell quite delicious. 
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scrabblegod
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posted on July 22, 2003 08:42:25 AM new
Here in Lexington, Ky our smoke ban goes into effect on September 29th. It applies to bars restaurants and places of employement.
I just left my job of 3 years which included 8 employeesin a 1500 sq foot office. I was the only nonsmoker in the office.
In the three weeks that I have been gone, I have have only taken allergy meds twice as opposed to the daily dose I took for three years.
My wife was a smoker of 2 packs a day from the age of 16, and she died in 2000 at the age of 41. Doctors attribute the cause of her death directly to smoking.
Smoke if you want, but do not try to tell those of us that suffer there are no effects of second hand smoke.
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Helenjw
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posted on July 22, 2003 10:06:35 AM new
According to the National Cancer Institute, ciggarette smoking is responsible for at least one-third of all cancer deaths annually in the U.S.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 22, 2003 10:58:13 AM new
I can easily tell if someone has not bathed in awhile, especially now when the weather is hot and people sweat.
Very surprising... most people who are unclean can't smell others...LOL
Oh there you go assuming that everyone runs a "retail" business...
There will probably always be "closet" smokers, but gravid is right, make them feel so outcast, they will need to quit to be part of society.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 22, 2003 11:10 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 22, 2003 11:30:04 AM new
"If you say yes I mind then all the civility is gone from the visit."
LoL!! That's so true gravid! The visits usually go nowhere if there are rules to obey!
scrabblegod, that must've been pretty devastating for you both, especially being so young. I'm sorry to hear that. 
Hi kiara! I, unlike some, love your posts!!
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kiara
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posted on July 22, 2003 12:27:57 PM new
Thanks, kraft. I still admire your calmness.
Oh there you go assuming that everyone runs a "retail" business...
twelvepole, where did I say that? Go back and read.
Did you follow Helen's advice on July 4th and try not to have anymore boo boos?
Speaking of odors, now I know why your back up singers abandoned you. lol
http://www.whoohoo.net/operababy/operababy.swf
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 22, 2003 03:55:19 PM new
Damn Kiara, that was supposed to be our secret... LOL
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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fenix03
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posted on July 22, 2003 09:24:53 PM new
Maybe I am in the minority of smokers but I respect that not everyone enjoys the smell (It annoys me sometimes too) and never assume that someone does not mind if I smoke in their home. If I am visiting friends and see no ashtrays I don't ask if it's OK. If I do see an ashtray, I will then ask if they mind just because I consider it to be the polite thing to do. Not all smokers are rude
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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gravid
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posted on July 22, 2003 11:59:38 PM new
Your sig line says it all.
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fenix03
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posted on July 23, 2003 02:22:21 AM new
Gravid - I have never tried to justify my smoking. Considering that 3 of my grandparents died of cancer it's doesn't make any sense but it's my only remaining vice and I accept responsibility for the effects of it. I don't force it on others, and I don't attack or complain about the anti smoking nazis.
My illogical vice is smoking. I guess yours is passing judgement on others.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 23, 2003 04:30:03 AM new
Fenix, how can you justify a supporting a national health care system, when we allow smoking? It has NO beneficial effects whatsoever, at least Alcohol, in moderation, has been proven to have some beneficial effects.
The sooner this "vice" is outlawed, the better off we will be... just think how progressive a country we will be if we could end smoking here...well legally.
I know there would be those that sneak around and still smoke... but the smell would give them away and action could be taken.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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profe51
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posted on July 23, 2003 06:18:31 AM new
Imagine the hoarding that would happen during the lead time to an anti-tobacco law going into effect. Stockpiles of blackmarket cigs, drive by shootings over tobacco turf, blood tests for nicotine...what a picture
___________________________________
What luck for the leaders that men do not think. - Adolph Hitler
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fenix03
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posted on July 23, 2003 08:09:15 AM new
Twelve, do you honestly believe that smoking will ever be outlawed? It's not going to happen. There is WAY too much money involved.
How can I justify it? Hell, toss in still another tax per pack to be donated to covering health care costs. Isn't that what the sin tax is supposed to be for anyway?
As for alcohol, sorry but the benefit is not justifiable. It is just as bad smoking. Not only are there the direct health damages but there are a great deal of indirect costs involved such injuries resulting from alcohol realted accidents and the large perentage domestic violence cases involving alcohol.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 23, 2003 04:24:19 PM new
Once again... you seem to think if it is not justifiable to you, it isn't justifiable... luckily the medical profession doesn't agree...
Outlawed within my life time? I will agree that it probably will not... but I do forsee that once the "sin" tax and litigations can no longer support the medical bills, it will become outlawed real quick.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 23, 2003 07:07:31 PM new
I'm a smoker. Someday I may quit, but for now I smoke. Maybe I'm in the minority of smokers, but I don't: smoke in other people's homes unless they are smoking, too; smoke around those who don't smoke; take offense when someone tells me I shouldn't smoke because I know I shouldn't.
About the only thing I do take offense to are those of you who get nasty about it but are enjoying the benefits of my smoking. The SIN tax is what I speak of. You wouldn't be enjoying the Cleveland Indians stadium or the Cleveland Brown's stadium if it weren't for me.
Unless you are free of everything that might just offend someone else, twelve, you need to lighten up a bit. I think to some on this board, just opening your mouth offends.
I dislike smoking, but at this time in my life I have other more important battles to win. Being smoke-free will just have to wait.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
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fenix03
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posted on July 23, 2003 07:10:59 PM new
Twelve - there is nothing that alcohol does that there are not a bevy of other substances that will have the same effect. Alcohol does not have a medically beneficial side effect which is exclusive to it and it alone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating making alcohol illegal, I still have a drink every now and then.
My point is that that if I had been able to choose between growing up breathing second hand smoke or growing up being the target of a abuse stemming from alcohol abuse - I would have chosen the smoke anyday. (truth be told I had both and there were a lot less medical bills related to smoke than there was to the alchol) If I was given the choice of never seeing two good friends because I could not stand the stench of smoke on their clothes or not seeing them because they were killed in seperate incidents two months apart involving drunk drivers - I would take the cigarrette smoke.
Yes, my opinions may be based on personal experiences and biases but I'd say your willingness to lose a seemingly valuable employee simply because they smoke in their off time lends itself to a whif of personal bias as well. Isn't that what opinions are afterall?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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davebraun
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posted on July 23, 2003 07:32:12 PM new
No one smokes in my house. If I have guests over, friends hanging out, a party or whatever I have an ashtray on my outdoor patio for their use (there is a cover overhead in case of rain although it is open air). I agree that they stink of smoke when they come back indoors but I can tolerate that as I believe most of the carcinogens dissipate outdoors and it only is a benign stink that follows them (I like that concept). I really get a laugh from the ones who smoke American Spirit because they believe that it is natural tobacco and somehow less of an impact on their health. It would be interesting to work out an actuarial table on smokers as a group and include health coverage for the various cancers and respiratory ailments in the cost of a pack of cigarettes rather than a sin tax to fund a baseball stadium for a few rich cats to increase their wealth.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 23, 2003 07:40:27 PM new
I think to some on this board, just opening your mouth offends.
Hmmm let me think if I care......... Nope.
At least none of you justified your smoking, that is a start.
Oh and Cheryl, I applaud the city of Cleveland for putting to good use your "sin" tax.... may the tax rise higher...
Oh and Cheryl, lighten up? have you read some of your Iraq posts? Talk about lightening up....
At least this is a worthy cause....
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 23, 2003 07:43 PM ]
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CBlev65252
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posted on July 24, 2003 04:23:54 AM new
twelvepole
I didn't expect you to care. That would be so unlike you.
By lightening up, I'm merely saying that most smokers when confronted will come out with their talons showing. It's easier to get someone to quit with gentle nagging. Something I get everyday since my boyfriend quit. In fact, he could win a nag award.
I don't know what part of the state you live in (I think you said you live in Ohio?) but up here in Cleveland I'd take the smell of tobacco over some of the other smells filling the air daily. The bus and truck exhaust is the worst! It's better since LTV's demise (sad to say) though. It seems like every morning I'm driving behind someone's car spewing out blue smoke. Cough, cough.
I am going to quit, but when I'm ready to. We do agree that it's a nasty habit. What I find funny is that I can't smoke at work so I only have a couple of cigarettes during the course of the day but once I get home it's a whole other story! Maybe I need to work more?
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 24, 2003 05:16:25 AM new
Cheryl, I think you would be more comfortable on the other shore of Lake Erie...
After all they support many of the socialistic ideologies that you seem to want...
I am now living in the NW. Still have family that live in Southern Ohio and I am from West Virginia
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jul 24, 2003 05:40 AM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on July 24, 2003 05:37:00 AM new
twelvepole,
If you're going to post this crap, you may as well try to spell it right. Click the little button on the right. It's called spell check.
ideology
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 24, 2003 05:48:23 AM new
Thanks Helen...
Oh and speaking of mis-spellings.... look up CIGARETTE... Seems your spell check doesn't catch everything...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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Helenjw
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posted on July 24, 2003 06:19:20 AM new
I just knew that you would appreciate that comment, twelvepole. A guy like you, so bereft of social skills must thrive on negative criticism and I'll bet that you appreciate every little bit that you can generate.
Helen
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